[wualta]

What does the new smaller driver look like?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ericj Well, midbass hump + no highs + no low bass sorta sounds like a loose ortho that needs damping. Which means it may have potential.

Could be.

If a 'phone sounds dull, bass-heavy and (as ericj said himself) sloppy, then damping might be the cure.

Has anyone in your forum tried damping them with felt or rock wool or dense foam or dryer lint or...?

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[Serge44]

Echo H-16 inside:

 

[facelvega]

Looks like another MB ortho driver, same perforations and clamps. Not much room for damping in those earpieces, though probably enough. I think we could get some decent sound out of this sucker. It won't be flat it if does sound like an MB driver, just as we haven't yet got an MB ortho to be flat yet, but there are those among us who like their sound anyway.

 

[ericj]

Well, I think it's more a pmb-style driver than an actual pmb driver - on the pmb the back connector comes out of the center, and is needlessly complex and interferes with damping.

Their east-german and ukranian copies have a much simpler exit. Good idea, really.

In the top picture - is that flash glare or are the holes bigger in the front magnet?

 

[Serge44]

It's a camera. Holes are identical on both sides.

 

[wualta]

Thanks for the photos.

Yeah, the driver looks just like the "Lvov" TDS-16 driver in Angelic's photos, one of which is below.

Is the H-16's driver 55mm in diameter?

And you say this one is 40 ohms? Very unusual if that's a 55mm PMB/Yamaha style driver.

Although... looking at Angelic's photo... Those aluminum voice coil tracks look flat. Doesn't that look to you like the flat, tensioned, not-pleated diaphragm you'd find in a Yamaha YHD or a Fostex or Audio-Technica or Sawafuji? Yet there's a center electrode, which means the diaphragm's center is clamped. Perhaps in the 40-ohm version the width of the aluminum track is increased? An interesting driver. Is it the same driver, more or less, that's in the H-16?

Back to the H-16: If there's any bass at all, a damping layer will probably won't hurt it as long as there's an airtight seal between driver and baffle-- and damping will very likely make an overall improvement in the sound. That Oreo-cookie-like white foam sandwich should allow for the insertion of plenty of damping layers, should they prove necessary.

These things have excessive bass, you say? I've learned to hear opportunities in that. No guarantees, just opportunities.


If these are selling for the equivalent of $6 each, perhaps we should try to get, say, six of them sent to the US for experimentation. Would that be possible?

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[Vaughn]

Please accept my application for team orthodynamic.

I just received a pair of Yamaha HP-1's I purchased online and I have
to say I wasn't expecting much. I was wrong.

These are so good it reminds of the time (early 90's) when I substituted
some Heathkit w5m tube amps in for my big mosfet hog power amp. I hadn't heard a proper tube setup before and it was so much better than the solid state amp it made feel as if no progress had been made in Hi-Fi at all.

Now I am thinking of trying to make my own drivers with ultra powerful neodymium wafer magnets.

Anyway, thanks to all of you for paving the way and shining a light on these all but forgotten headphones!

 

[ericj]

Welcome to the team!

The HP-1 and YH-1 are plenty listenable stock, but you'll be amazed how much better they sound slightly modded.

If you can brave the xmas shopping traffic, get yourself to a fabric store and ask for 1/6th of a yard of their cheapest felt.

Then come back here for more instructions.

 

[wualta]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vaughn Please accept my application for team orthodynamic.

Welcome to our small but mighty band. Well, maybe rhetorically mighty.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vaughn I just received a pair of Yamaha HP-1's I purchased online and I have to say I wasn't expecting much. I was wrong.

That's the best possible outcome, of course, but I'm wondering: what was it that led to your low expectations? Age? Appearance? Cost? My crabby writeups early in this thread?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vaughn Now I am thinking of trying to make my own drivers with ultra powerful neodymium wafer magnets.

Cool! I hope you succeed, but you'll need a diaphragm/voice coil. You could try drawing conductive ink on a tensioned circle of Mylar, or you could get another ortho with non-glued magnet sandwich (say, a Fostex T20 of some early vintage) and use that.

Drilling holes in a powerful magnet might present some interesting problems. Let us know how that goes. Take pictures.

.

 

[Vaughn]

Thanks EricJ and Wualta!

I have some "crafting" felt from Michael's. The type they sell in 81/2"x11"
sheets. I don't know if this will be suitable for the next step.

I guess the reason I wasn't expecting much is that I am naturally a skeptic.
It has been my experience that some people will latch onto a particular
pet technology and raise it to the level of fetish.

Without a real reference, as I'm sure you know, you have to take everyone's
opinion on Head-Fi (and everywhere else) with a grain of salt.

Now I know you guys are totally on target with this!

Drilling magnets can be quite a farce, as all of the magnetic particles then stick themselves to the main magnet and are very difficult to get off.

I wonder of a system like Magneplanar uses would work?

 

[ericj]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vaughn /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have some "crafting" felt from Michael's. The type they sell in 81/2"x11" sheets. I don't know if this will be suitable for the next step.

Crafty felt should be fine - probably the same stuff.

Edit: oh yeah, hold on for instructions - finding pictures

Quote:

I guess the reason I wasn't expecting much is that I am naturally a skeptic. It has been my experience that some people will latch onto a particular pet technology and raise it to the level of fetish. Without a real reference, as I'm sure you know, you have to take everyone's opinion on Head-Fi (and everywhere else) with a grain of salt.

I can understand that - especially with the emphasis we have on modifying the headphones. There are very few orthos out there that do not benefit from some simple adjustments.

But with most of the mods championed here on head-fi, the headphones are already tuned about as far as they can possibly go - and the mod only makes subtle changes. And then six months later if you ask people, they say they went back to stock.

This is not the case in Team Ortho! Our mods are NOT subtle in effect.

The HP/YH-1 has good tone, but in the stock configuration it is severely underdamped. Increasing the damping behind the driver makes a night-and-day improvement in clarity and speed that i did not fully appreciate until i tried a damped pair right next to a stock pair.

Quote:

I wonder of a system like Magneplanar uses would work?

Bar magnets? Yup! The Greatest Ortho We Know - the original 1978 Fostex T50 - uses essentially that method, but with samarium cobalt magnets glued to steel plates. The best they had at the time.

I've been pondering the possibility of getting some sort of steel vent from the hardware store and paving it with small (and cheap!) neodymium magnets.

 

[ericj]

You will need a pair of scissors and a #1 philips head screwdriver.

You can get at the screws by peeling up just the edges of the earpads. Here's a picture of an HP-1 without earpads to give you an idea where to find the screws:

After you take off the baffle, the driver pretty much falls out. If you have some bluetak (or yellowtak, or other form of poster tak), or some plumber's putty, you can seal the driver to the baffle, which may enhance the bass response.

Cut out four circles of felt that are as big as the driver, two circles of felt that are as big as the baffle, and two circles of paper that are as big as the driver. It's possible that a rough paper like construction paper is best for this application, but who knows?

Take the foam out of the earcup, put in one of the bigger circles of felt, then put the foam in on top of that, then a small disc of felt, a disc of paper, and another disc of felt.

Then stack in the driver and baffle and reassemble. Be careful not to over-tighten the screws as the plastic is primarily composed of dairy products.

Wah-lah!

 

[wualta]

Listen to ericj on this one. What he's presenting is what we've come to call the Stage One mod. This was the original mod, first done about 20 years ago now, that showed that the perception owners had about their Orthodynamics, that they were good and smooth but had poor transient control-- ie, they bounced-- was correct.

Transient response translates to certain features of the frequency response, so we shouldn't be surprised to find that when the transient response is shored up, the frequency response follows suit.

It's the layer of felt right next to the driver that does the primary work of damping the driver. Everything else is reflection control (a dipole driver in a closed earcup? Huh?) and making sure there's enough force holding the damping felt firmly up against the driver. The paper acts to increase the damping a bit, but depending on your tastes, you might find you can leave it out.

Leave the little strips of black felt in place. When you remove the driver they'll try to fall out, but don't let them-- they're vent dampers; they keep some of the bass from leaking away.

It's a simple, cheap mod, and it's entirely reversible.

You may find the top octave is still weak after all this. That's where Stage 1.5 comes in.

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[Vaughn]

ok, first mod completed!

The transient response is stunning on these with the modifications.
I did lose some of the bass weight but the resolution is now on par with
my K340's.

I think I'm ready for step 1.5.

 

[ericj]

Told ya.

wualta may have specific recommendations for bass quantity, but try applying some eq - I think you'll be very pleased with the quality of the bass even if the quantity is a little reduced without eq.

I believe 1.5 involves putting a sticker on the back of the driver, dead center. The 18mm or so stickers sold by Avery are so far the default choice, but I've also used small squares of vinyl tape for the job.