[oicdn]

^ What's the difference in bass though? Is it just not as large? or is it just tighter? It was between this one that was mint, or the other one by the seller which was in rougher shape.

 

[ericj]

Less extension available from the smaller-size drivers, due to far less surface area.

I have two pair of YH-2 and both of them also came with the original damping foam completely decomposed. And the earpads seem to be significantly lower quality vs. the YH-1 i bought last week and vs. the YH-100 I got from wualta.

It should speak volumes that wualta has never purchased a -2 model, and doesn't seem interested in owning one.

I was never completely happy with any configuration of damping on a YH-2 in the original bellini frame. I had to mount the drivers in Stax SR-30 earcups to be happy with them.

As for used quality, look for cracks in the plastic stiffeners on the suede head-strap. If it's cracked there's no good solution other than making or finding a new strap. Look for tweaked earcups like the one i photographed earlier - the fix is easy for me to do but might be more challenging for someone less used to visualizing solutions for 3d positioning problems. You could end up with a broken strut, too, and then you'd have to come here and beg for a new frame because there is no earthly way to repair a broken bellini strut. Believe me we've tried everything imaginible - the plastic yamaha used does not glue or solvent-weld well at all.

 

[wualta]

And of course the standard warning applies: If you're expecting anything like what these 'phones are capable of but you're not willing to take 'em apart to mod 'em, don't buy 'em. Simple as that.

Unmodded they're pleasant but not competitive with good modern-day dynamics, and you'll find yourself wondering what all the fuss is about.

 

[oicdn]

The ones I won are essentially NOS and are HP-2's. I dunno about the original owner's hearing, but he said he couldn't depict the difference between an HP-1 and HP-2.

I figured I'de snag up his HP-2 since they were essentially new compared to the HP-1's that looked battered and cracked.
Yamaha HP-2 Headphones !!! Highly Sought After !!! - (eBay item 170172316491 end time Dec-02-07 13:03:10 PST)

What kind of modding am I looking at. Sorry I didn't read the thread, but seriously, 143 pages is a bit excessive.

 

[ericj]

Precisely.

But stockers, the YH-1 beats the YH-2 any day of the week and twice on sunday. From what I've heard, so does the HP-3 and HP-50(a,s).

 

[oicdn]

Is it a fairly dramatic difference (should i be regretting my purchase, lol) or is it subtle?

What are the differences between them aside from Driver size? Does the driver size really lend that much to it's sound difference?

 

[spritzer]

Driver size is a really big deal when it comes to planar drivers, be it orthos or stats. If you can find a Fostex T50 then you have a world class dynamic that is only let down by comfort.

 

[ericj]

Well, if i'd been in your shoes, I would have bought the HP-1. the head-strap on that one looks mostly OK. Better than the YH-1 i picked up last week. Cheaper, too.

But you can have some fun with your HP-2. You'll need to head down to a local fabric store and find some cheap felt.

And by cheap, we mean low-quality. 4th grade diorama quality. You should be able to see some light through it if you hold it up to a light source.

There's probably a Jo-Ann fabric & crafts near you. I've bought all my felt out of their remnants bin. The stuff they carry that seems to work the best is probably the cheapest felt they sell. When it's still on the bolt and mostly unhandled, it looks a bit like it was pleated by a semirandom array of pins, like a cheap paper towel - because it was. And yes, they will sell you a six inch strip of it if you ask for 1/6th of a yard. And that should be more than enough for a dozen pairs of headphones.

If you find some better quality felts in the remnant bin for cheap, get those too. You may find that you prefer the sound of an overdamped ortho. But by and large, cheap & flimsy wins the race.

If the HP-2 is anything like the YH-2 in build quality, I'll bet you an assortment of damping materials that you'll need some foam rubber to replace the original foam in the earcup. Look for low to medium density open-celled foam less than 1/2" thick, or cut a slice off something thicker.

My latest experiment with my YH-1 was to cut a circle of Target's cheapest fake chamois and put it behind the felt that's on the back of my driver, and then another layer of cheap felt lining the earcup behind the foam.

I got the idea from wualta's old Phase One mod that involves a disc of construction paper between two layers of felt.

I don't have any construction paper unless i want to tear into the charming displays that were preserved in my permanent record by my 1st grade teacher (Yes, I have my own permanent record on file).

I figure that constructionpaper, being mostly rag, and unpolished, is way more permeable than most of the papers i have here. I was considering peeling the top layer from some cardboard when i recalled my disappointingly impermable fake chamois purchase.

This stuff is thin, and yellow, and made of bonded fibers of some sort. Slapped right on the back of the driver, it acted more like a reflex disc than a damping disc.

It's probably more permeable than construction paper, but not by a huge margin.

And I'm getting the idea that with the vents around the circumference of the earcup in the bellini frame, instead of behind the driver where they belong, maybe forcing the bass wave sideways is a good thing.

In any case, so far I consider it an improvement.

Oh, i was also able to re-flare my head strap by taping it to the same 8" lexan cylinder I've heat-formed so many AKG headbands on and heating it to more or less it's melting point with a cheap hair dryer. The suede is badly worn and has a hole in it - maybe some day I'll experiment with re-suedeing it.

 

[facelvega]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ericj /img/forum/go_quote.gif stockers, the YH-1 beats the YH-2 any day of the week and twice on sunday. From what I've heard, so does the HP-3 and HP-50(a,s).

Quote:

Originally Posted by spritzer /img/forum/go_quote.gif Driver size is a really big deal when it comes to planar drivers, be it orthos or stats.

What's odd about all this is that the small ortho driver in an HP-50a produces big, tight bass, more pronounced than I've heard with any other ortho driver. Stock, it doesn't handle treble too well, though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by oicdn /img/forum/go_quote.gif Is it a fairly dramatic difference (should i be regretting my purchase, lol) or is it subtle? What are the differences between them aside from Driver size? Does the driver size really lend that much to it's sound difference?

The driver is the main difference. It's like you bought an HD555 instead of a 595, if I can mention such vulgar headphones in this thread.

However, don't regret your purchase. Modded, they should still perform way above the forty bucks you spent on them. Plus the 2 is a nicer color.

 

[ericj]

Quote:

Originally Posted by facelvega /img/forum/go_quote.gif What's odd about all this is that the small ortho driver in an HP-50a produces big, tight bass, more pronounced than I've heard with any other ortho driver. Stock, it doesn't handle treble too well, though.

So i hear. I really hope i run across an HP-50 or HP/YH-3 one of these days so i can satisfy my belief that the -2 and -3/50 differ in the tuning of the driver -- the hp-50 being tuned way low.

I don't recall much but midrange, and rattles from loose bits of decomposing foam, from my either of my YH-2 in their stock form.

y'all are tempting me to try and return one pair of drivers to something that resembles stock form. I've got a pristine frame with a makeshift leather headstrap just waiting . . . .

But i don't feel like dismantling the dumb luck that is Yamakoax, so i'll have to finish tweaking the drivers in my 1st ortho transplant and dig them back out. Which will be Fun because i sealed the baffles in that one with rtv silicone.

 

[facelvega]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ericj /img/forum/go_quote.gif So i hear. I really hope i run across an HP-50 or HP/YH-3 one of these days so i can satisfy my belief that the -2 and -3/50 differ in the tuning of the driver -- the hp-50 being tuned way low. ill be Fun because i sealed the baffles in that one with rtv silicone.

We don't know if the 3 and 50 had the same driver. There had to be some reason for the name difference besides the two-tone brown.

But yeah, there's a certain cut on a Jacques Brel concert recording that has never sounded right to me on any other headphone after hearing it on the HP-50a. Just Brel singing and a stand-up bass on the stage, and it's magic. Of course, on almost any other cut ever recorded, I'll take any other ortho I've ever had. Thank goodness I'm not a huge Brel fan.

 

[wualta]

Quote:

Originally Posted by oicdn What are the differences between ALL of them? Are they all essentially the same phone just different variations/colors?

This question is worth tackling, because there are some Orthodynamics that have important differences, as FV and ericj have already pointed out.

I have not heard the HP-2 or YH-2, but I would expect them to be indistinguishable from one another both visually and audibly, just as the HP-1 and YH-1 are. In stock form I would also imagine them to sound very much like the HP-1/YH-1 but for slightly less efficiency and a steeper rolloff on the bottom octave and a half. They also shouldn't be able to play quite as loudly, especially in the bass. With some careful EQ (underline careful), they can probably be made to sound very much like the larger-diaphragm models. Ericj, who has both and seems to hear more or less what I hear, can get into this a little deeper, and I hope he does, because what we're about on this thread is wringing out all the performance that was built into these drivers and making them perform at top potential-- without becoming obsessive about it, of course, and I'm sure that at the limit, in an optimized enclosure, the HP-1 will show the benefits of its big diaphragm-- lower bass distortion, more low-bass output, higher ultimate SPL.

Me, I'm going to take the psychological way out and tell you that you're much more likely to cherish the mint HP-2 and want to really make it sound like something special. Yeah, we hardbitten jaded types would've gone for the HP-1 for [makes quotes with fingers] technical reasons, but I think you're going to enjoy the HP-2 just as much, probably more. You might like them enough to save up for an assault on a YH-100... if one ever shows up again, or even an HP-1. You can't beat $21 plus shipping. Wow.

I'll make a prediction: the difference between your HP-2 and an HP-1 is going to be much less than the difference between the HP-1 and the YH-100.



Which brings up the original question: do all Orthodynamics sound alike? I would put the HP/YH-1,2,3 pretty much in one lump, soundwise. They're a family. I'd be very surprised to hear any substantial differences. For what it's worth, Yamaha, in the HP-1A/HP-2 brochure, which gets quite technical, downplays the difference. I just hope your foam and earpads haven't deteriorated during their long storage. Let us know their condition when they arrive. Remember, don't drop them.

The oddballs in the Ortho line are the YHD-1 and YHD-2, the YH-100 and 1000, some HP/YH-3s, and some of the HP/YH-3 variants, ie, the HP-50 family. The YH-100 is tuned lower than its brothers (we've found some low-tuned HP-50s and HP-3s too), which makes it sound bassy and dull in stock form. The HP-50x and YHE-50x models were meant to be used with Yamaha's line of electronic organs, which may explain why they're different. The YHD-1 and -2 are a whole 'nother thing, oddballs even among the oddballs. The YHD-3 is a miniature HP-1, but with a semi-open back and flat foam earpads.
Of course, once any Orthodynamic driver is transplanted, the sound can be changed for better or worse, sometimes drastically, and it's good to keep in mind that most drastic changes are for the worse.

The Bellini headset is okay, but it's not the optimum enclosure for this type of driver, for a variety of reasons, and I can think of no better proof of this than ericj's YamaKoax, which is nothing more complex than putting a YH-2 driver into a headset designed by folks (Stax) who really know their planars. Of course, ericj added some personal erical magic to the transplant, using specific foams and felts and special emollients to smooth the sound even further. This is synergy, the real kind, based on (1) good engineering and (2) a refusal to throw money at the problem, which switches on Cheap person ingenuity.

.

 

[wualta]

Quote:

Originally Posted by facelvega What's odd about all this is that the small ortho driver in an HP-50a produces big, tight bass, more pronounced than I've heard with any other ortho driver.

Surface area is important, but excursion is too, and you can trade one for the other in a planar, especially a push-pull planar like the Orthos. By contrast, a Magneplanar, being single-ended, has to have surface area. Too much excursion and it leaves the more-or-less linear part of the magnetic field and you get a blatty kind of distortion.


Quote:

Originally Posted by facelvega Stock, it doesn't handle treble too well, though.

Sounds like it desperately needed damping/dotting.


Quote:

Originally Posted by facelvega However, don't regret your purchase. Modded, they should still perform way above the forty bucks you spent on them. Plus the 2 is a nicer color.

I missed this part of FV's post the first time 'round. We were thinking alike.

 

[wualta]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ericj But you can have some fun with your HP-2.

True. Follow this man's advice. He knows fabric.


Quote:

Originally Posted by ericj If you find some better quality felts in the remnant bin for cheap, get those too.

Yes, because if you ever get some really difficult planar 'phones, like Fostex's T20 Version 2 (T20v2), you'll want some really dense stuff. Vents have to be damped too, and I have the sneaking feeling denser is better for that application. We'll get into that later. The first, most important thing is to get the diaphragm's motion under control, and the cheap felt is just right for the HP/YH-2.



Quote:

Originally Posted by ericj My latest experiment with my YH-1 was to cut a circle of Target's cheapest fake chamois and put it behind the felt that's on the back of my driver, and then another layer of cheap felt lining the earcup behind the foam. And I'm getting the idea that with the vents around the circumference of the earcup in the bellini frame, instead of behind the driver where they belong, maybe forcing the bass wave sideways is a good thing. In any case, so far I consider it an improvement.

I'm not certain I understand all that, but I never argue with success!

 

[ericj]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wualta /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm not certain I understand all that, but I never argue with success!

This really cheap fake chamois is really smooth, which is just wrong - chamois should have a suede-like surface, not a leather-like surface. It's thinner than a dime, too, and doesn't expand when wet. And isn't what I'd call exceptionally absorbant. If I'd bought it to dry my car with, I'd be mightily disappointed.

The fake chamois you used in your T20v2 mod looked more like moleskin. Fluffy but densely bonded. Different stuff - way different.

So, that YH-100 you sent me came with felt on the back of the driver, and then a disc of heavy high-rag unpolished paper, and another disc of felt.

I don't quite get what that 2nd disc of felt was for, but in this latest experiment, in my yh-1, the leathery non-chamois pretends to be both the 2nd disc of felt and the construction paper.

The earcup is then also lined with cheap felt 'cause i typically do that.

In fact, one of the better YH-2 mods i tried was just a layer of superfelt lining the cup, new foam, and nothing else. Bass improved in quantity but not really in quality. I suspect that this worked because it increased the resistance of venting through the ball socket and reduced reflection inside the cup.

Perhaps i should try lining the yh-1 cup with superfelt?