Orthodynamic Roundup

[khbaur330162]

Not surprised to see front treatment help the top end. Great to see some graphs. Adding some absorbent material subjectively helped the HP1's top end.

Yeah, I did it to YH-100's, too, and it smooths treble out there as well. YH-1's almost sound a smidge bassier with front damping? Am I crazy? Not sure there.

 

[GREQ]

Yeah, I did it to YH-100's, too, and it smooths treble out there as well. YH-1's almost sound a smidge bassier with front damping? Am I crazy? Not sure there.

If you add front damping underneath any ear pad in many headphone, it can increase bass.
Perfectly normal phenomenon.
It causes a similar effect as using fenestrated ear pads, or pleather pads with fabric on the internal circumference.

Other similar mods are strings of foam or rings of other damping material stuffed under the pad circumference - works for dynamic closed-backs too.

Sometimes I add rings or semi-circles of harder closed-cell crafting foam under pads for better shape/comfort without increasing the bass too much. Also the closed cell stuff (the scrapbook crafting stuff) doesn't elevate mid-bass as much as sub-bass... generally.

That said... getting seriously elevated basshead bass out of most planars is almost impossible anyway... not without ruining the treble or upper mids.

 

[khbaur330162]

If you add front damping underneath any ear pad in many headphone, it can increase bass.
Perfectly normal phenomenon.
It causes a similar effect as using fenestrated ear pads, or pleather pads with fabric on the internal circumference.

Other similar mods are strings of foam or rings of other damping material stuffed under the pad circumference - works for dynamic closed-backs too.

Sometimes I add rings or semi-circles of harder closed-cell crafting foam under pads for better shape/comfort without increasing the bass too much. Also the closed cell stuff (the scrapbook crafting stuff) doesn't elevate mid-bass as much as sub-bass... generally.

That said... getting seriously elevated basshead bass out of most planars is almost impossible anyway... not without ruining the treble or upper mids.

Hrm. Interesting. I was using pad risers under the stock pads originally because I thought it sounded better. Slap those back under the restitched jobbies... Closed cell packaging foam.

Ok, so here's measurements of pad risers on YH-100. Blue has no risers, black has risers.

Hrm. Well it does something... More bass. Okkk. What's that 4kHz peak??? Grrr. I don't really hear it, but oogly. I guess there is more bass, I think I sense that but it's subtle... Hrm. Bass boost back on... It's not like "crazy"... I think the pad risers help stretch the leather out a bit though, I stitched the leather a tad loose and you can sorta feel this when you put them on your head, the pad risers alleviate this to where you kinda don't even notice it anymore. I'm not going to lie, the super forward midrange is kinda gone and these have lost a quality I've known them for, but they still sound really great, I think pad risers are staying.... BUT:

Gasket 2 is what's pictured versus no gasket. Gasket 1 is an ever-so-slightly-thinner packaging foam, same exact stuff. I like the way this stuff measures better even though it doesn't eek out quite as much bass... The 4kHz peak is less prominent, the midrange dips are smaller, treble not quite as boosted. To be fair I'm using my measurements to listen for me, Idrk if I can tell a difference at this point, only brief testing.

 

[JadeEast]

My pet - and completely un scientific subjective throwing spaghetti at the wall - grand unified theory of ortho dampening. Damping rear primarily impacts driver's own resonant frequency somewhere south of 300HZ acting as a restorative pressure. More reflective "harder" rear damping can add some treble back through reflections, but that's kind of a secondary impact from treating the back wave that's unavoidable. Front treatment works on or with the resonance of the area between the ear drum and inside the space of the ear pad cavity. Depending on the opening I'd expect resonances and weirdnesses to be 1K and above. Adding spacer could increases that space and could alter resonance there and add other fun things. Untested. Woo woo.

I'd be super curious if anyone with a measurement rig has measured the raw undamped response of a driver and then compared after added rear damping. Anyone have raw driver (ie with zero damping material) measurements for something?

 

[khbaur330162]

I'd be super curious if anyone with a measurement rig has measured the raw undamped response of a driver and then compared after added rear damping. Anyone have raw driver (ie with zero damping material) measurements for something?

I'll play. Blue is completely undamped, no angel hair. Gold has rear damping and angel hair, Purple is a different YH-1 with same rear damping, angel hair, and Pacman front damping.

Ok. So it's all coming back to me. I used to Pacman damp the fronts of these. I cut a pie shape out of the frontwave damping layer to get some detail back. Here are measurements. Green is YH-100, Gasket 1 pad risers with frontwave damping, Black is YH-100, Gasket 1 with Pacman frontwave damping. Just little more mids and more detail.

 

[JadeEast]

Thank you! So much. interesting (strokes chin)....

I don't know workflow for measurement rigs. Do you set SPL based on a single frequency ?
I see crossover points on the graph at 300hz and 1.5k ish... Or is a pink noise averaged SPL type deal. I'm guessing the former.

 

[khbaur330162]

Yeah, I match everything at 300Hz on the right channel because that side is more sensitive than the left. If the graphs don't line up at 300Hz I shift them up or down.

 

[khbaur330162]

Okay, maybe you're right, JadeEast, here's better graph.

All the same YH-1 this time. See how Green and Gold kind of match in mids and treble now?? I think this is more correct. These graphs are unmoved, so this is just raw how the graphs came in. Also, I believe I adjusted volume on the rear damped right channel, then measured undamped left channel, which is maybe why it doesn't match at 300Hz and why I had to adjust it so horribly for the first picture. But now they should have all been measured within a few tenth's of a dB or whatever on the amp itself, so more true to the measurements than matching the undamped side at 300Hz even, perhaps.

Undamped measurement taken August 5, Front + Rear Damping taken August 6th, Rear damping only taken July 26. So there was definitely amp fiddling between measurements and there is a few 0.1dB's difference probably.

 

[khbaur330162]

Ok, so more off-topic ramblings about Chinese Planar for anyone interested. Sorry to the rest of you.

I wanted to hear Chinese Planars real quick but turned into more. They did NOT sound washed out through my old iRiver H320. I was like "this sounds really really decent, like more detailed than YH-1? But they don't soundstage." But Chinese Planars are gooood. I decided to pacman damp them, here are measurements.

I like it. Possibly less sibilant. Didn't really subdue treble, but overall better I think. They sound pretty similar to YH-1's but... Idk how to explain it. Little tiny bit crisper and cleaner somehow but at same time it's like YH-1's are a picture colored with colored pencils and Chinese Planars are colored with water colors? Maybe? Both pretty darn good artists, just different styles of art. Listening to HD535's and KPH30i's with Grado pads have helped me appreciate Chinese Planar coloration more maybe. Hrm, I've never really noticed YH-1's sounding ring-y, they are always CLEARER than whatever I'm comparing against, so coming from Chinese Planar there was a moment I went "ew" but after half a song they are clean again. I wonder what others would say about Chinese Planar. Maybe there's a sense of like over damping almost like the YHD? YH-1's have an ease to them, whereas detail in these, while effortless to make out, sounds like it's fighting some resistance somehow. RP-18's sounded like colored pencil, too, airy and effortless to me kind of, these Chinese Planars don't really, sounds a little stuffy and more like a painstakingly airbrushed image. Gah. Idk if my analogies make any sense... You have to hear them. But they are good if you can build something for ~$250, imo. I probably spent too much on them, I think YH-100's are maybe a little better, they get rid of the stuffiness, so the fact that Chinese Planars cost more? No bueno, but glad I have them to listen to.

 

[JadeEast]

@khbaur330162 How do I email you a beer? Can you do that yet? Amazing... that's great and was exactly what I was curious about. Amazing to see how much work that rear treatment does to flatten things from 3k south. In that adjusted chart it really shows that impact so well. Curious to see that rear treatment pulled down that bump from 1-3k as well. I'm a bit surprised with that but that's right there in the chart. If you're ever bored... seeing the impact of just the front damping would be super interesting to see. Zero expectations and considering I owe you a beer already...

I do like the water-colour and coloured pencil analogies. BTW. Works for me.

 

[khbaur330162]

Not a big deal, the threads on YH-1 are still pristine, it's the YH-100 I'm worried about on one post. Probably need to seal that with blu tack, there might be bass loss due to this friggin loose screw, ever so slightly. That or mismatched drivers, it's not a big deal, I'm not worried., it's only the deepest of sub bass really. As you can see, front damping only does not flatten the 1-2kHz peak, it just forces subbass out of them, haha. -edit- whyyyy? Why does only rear damping effect the linearity like that? -edit 2- so the forward stroke sucks in the damping? Hrm, maybe it's the angel hair that acts as a spring on damping layer which seals better than frontwave?

And one with all of them in case you wanted that:

 

[JadeEast]

What is Going on??? 10HZ up 10db from treating only the front. Man. This week has been a weird one. Thanks for indulging me with the graph updates. Really not what I would expect to see from just front damping. This is a very cool surprise.

 

[khbaur330162]

Haha. Idkkkk. Here's another conundrum.

Pacman Damp versus Leather Bass Lens on YH-1:

I think they sound more forward and possibly a miniscule amount clearer even though their midranges look identical. Possibly just more efficient... They are really close, but I think I prefer bass lens. That means.... they did everything right stock, basically. But why does sub bass suffer? That really sucks. I want front damp sub bass and bass lens clarity, midrange and treble. Grrr.

 

[khbaur330162]

Ok, just throwing these graphs here, don't mind me, turning ortho roundup thread into khbaur journal.

Interesting... Bass lens sucks out more upper mids and treble than pacman damping in YH-100? I guess their unrestricted magnet perforations aren't far off in number? Idk which I prefer. They are really really close. I think they're so close I just pacman damp them so it's a full 55mm driver. -edit- ok pacman damp definitely better for YH-100, verdict on YH-1's went back out after YH-100 trials.

Omg, haha, what in the world? So I remembered Brainwavz flat pads had nice bass and accentuated treble. I thought they'd be a nice fit for the bass lens YH-1. Wow. So much more engaging with these pads. Almost YH-100 level??? No, like seriously these sound remarkably similar. Pacman damping fixed YH-100 ringing it seems, can't hear it anymore, but bass lens YH-1 with brainwavz pads.... So good? How do these keep going neck and neck with mod advancements?

Blue = YH-100 with handstitched leather pads + pad risers + Pacman damping; Gold = YH-1 with Brainwavz Flat pads + Bass Lens.

Now I have a bass lens YH-1 with brainwavz pads and Pacman YH-1 with ZX1000 pads to compare. I think I prefer bass lens slightly but they are really close. In this picture you can see how much better bass is than ZX1000 pads if you compare both bass lens graphs from this and my previous post with the same pacman damping measurement.

Blue = YH-1 with Brainwavz Flat pads + Bass Lens; Gold = YH-1 with ZX1000 pads + Pacman frontwave damp

My dad said Pacman damping had vocals sound far away? But bass lens had a twang to guitar that was too much, or metallic sounding to him. Hrm. He's just never happy, haha, I think they both sound good, just different, one is a little more engaging/excitement.


I think we're in the home stretch now? Maybe my posts will slow down, now. If I do any more to these headphones... Idk what's gonna happen. I have to decide how I want to finish the YH-1's I'm going to try and sell. If I end up with two YH-1's I won't be super bummed, I can always use a headphone splitter with dueling YH-1's with a friend... Their planar magnetic resistive load on the amp and similar impedance + sensitivity should mean they play nicely together I would think. So chapter finishing up. I got tuned ortho's with soundstage that I'm happy with. Woot. I sometimes forget that's all these really are. YH-1 with soundstage. The stock YH-1 sounded so gooood. I wish I had my old HD800's, I wonder how these compare. They sound so goooood.

-edit- Dad prefers YH-1's to YH-100's...

 

[GREQ]

Ok, just throwing these graphs here, don't mind me, turning ortho roundup thread into khbaur journal.

Interesting... Bass lens sucks out more upper mids and treble than pacman damping in YH-100? I guess their unrestricted magnet perforations aren't far off in number? Idk which I prefer. They are really really close. I think they're so close I just pacman damp them so it's a full 55mm driver. -edit- ok pacman damp definitely better for YH-100, verdict on YH-1's went back out after YH-100 trials.





Omg, haha, what in the world? So I remembered Brainwavz flat pads had nice bass and accentuated treble. I thought they'd be a nice fit for the bass lens YH-1. Wow. So much more engaging with these pads. Almost YH-100 level??? No, like seriously these sound remarkably similar. Pacman damping fixed YH-100 ringing it seems, can't hear it anymore, but bass lens YH-1 with brainwavz pads.... So good? How do these keep going neck and neck with mod advancements?

Blue = YH-100 with handstitched leather pads + pad risers + Pacman damping; Gold = YH-1 with Brainwavz Flat pads + Bass Lens.



Now I have a bass lens YH-1 with brainwavz pads and Pacman YH-1 with ZX1000 pads to compare. I think I prefer bass lens slightly but they are really close. In this picture you can see how much better bass is than ZX1000 pads if you compare both bass lens graphs from this and my previous post with the same pacman damping measurement.

Blue = YH-1 with Brainwavz Flat pads + Bass Lens; Gold = YH-1 with ZX1000 pads + Pacman frontwave damp

My dad said Pacman damping had vocals sound far away? But bass lens had a twang to guitar that was too much, or metallic sounding to him. Hrm. He's just never happy, haha, I think they both sound good, just different, one is a little more engaging/excitement.


I think we're in the home stretch now? Maybe my posts will slow down, now. If I do any more to these headphones... Idk what's gonna happen. I have to decide how I want to finish the YH-1's I'm going to try and sell. If I end up with two YH-1's I won't be super bummed, I can always use a headphone splitter with dueling YH-1's with a friend... Their planar magnetic resistive load on the amp and similar impedance + sensitivity should mean they play nicely together I would think. So chapter finishing up. I got tuned ortho's with soundstage that I'm happy with. Woot. I sometimes forget that's all these really are. YH-1 with soundstage. The stock YH-1 sounded so gooood. I wish I had my old HD800's, I wonder how these compare. They sound so goooood.

-edit- Dad prefers YH-1's to YH-100's...

I think with a centre-pinched ortho, the 'bass lens' concept probably won't work as well as a more common fully unimpeded type planar.

When you consider that over 70% of the diaphragm is already impeded by the magnets, its reasonable to conclude that much of the bass tuning is already taken care of by the size and frequency of the hole patterns, as they behave almost like a series of 'ports'.

You might get more interesting results playing around with different ear pads, like sony XB pads, pleather pads with fabric interiors, etc etc.
Just some ideas.