Orthodynamic Roundup

[scompton]

Modded the Audio Technica this evening and it sounds very nice. I forgot to blue tack the holes in the baffle under the ear pad, but I don't think it's necessary. They're producing plenty of bass for me. I'm just about hitting the limit of using them comfortwise after about 3 hours. They just clamp a little too hard and my ears are feeling crushed. They're fantastic rock and jazz cans. They're OK for classical, though I still prefer my QP85 and AKGs for the head stage.

 

[wualta]

Good to hear you like 'em for any non-Hindemith purposes.

You can unbend the headband and make 'em less clampy.

What did you decide to use for a damping layer?

 

[wualta]

Quote:

Originally Posted by facelvega I fully agree that beyond a basic point, there is no reason to chase the bass in the PMB, as its virtues will always lie elsewhere.

Agreed. In fact, I was thinking of starting a contest to see if anyone can get actual bass out of any PMB-built 'phone, prize to be determined. I hope it can be done, but I certainly don't have any good ideas, so yeah, maybe damp any vents on the PMB 100, but beyond that...

 

[wualta]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdennis /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've been working on Hindemith's double bass sonata for a few weeks now. "Ludus Tonalis" was one of the first pieces that hooked me on 20th century music. I don't know the Chansons yet. Ortho content: I'd love to play with some orthos sometime, but the need for extensive mods in order for them to sound their best is a bit worrying. Seems like it would be easy to make a fatal mistake.

There's a connection between those two paragraphs. Anyone who has an ear good enough to tell when a composition lies in an instrument's sweet spot can tell if the felt he's slapped on a headphone driver is an improvement or not, and anyone who can play the double bass and get music out of it certainly has the manual strength and dexterity to disassemble, feltify and reassemble a headphone.

Anyone who likes Ludus (ever hear the old Tetley-Kardos recording?)... well, it would be a crime if he never damped a headphone.

After all, if you don't know the Six Chansons, does that mean you should never try to learn it for fear of destroying it? and surely doing this mod that only requires a screwdriver and scissors is easier than arranging Six Chansons for double bass quartet..? Well, I mean to say.. talk about easy to make a fatal mistake..

[takes tongue out of cheek] True fatality would be never attempting the thing at all.

Happily, ruining a headphone while doing the simple mods we've outlined here turns out to be pretty close to impossible.


.

 

[facelvega]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wualta /img/forum/go_quote.gif Agreed. In fact, I was thinking of starting a contest to see if anyone can get actual bass out of any PMB-built 'phone, prize to be determined. I hope it can be done, but I certainly don't have any good ideas, so yeah, maybe damp any vents on the PMB 100, but beyond that...

PMB500 does pretty well in that regard now that they're up and running well. Surely this is partly thanks to its closed earpads, though.

 

[JadeEast]

Dug up and played around with the dampening on the PMB100.

Amp was a NVA that I've been playing with and maybe not the best match but it's what's on the table. Dac was diyparadise usb monica.
My regular bass testing tracks are. Joni Mitchell "California" the kick drum quality is what I'm listening for, for deep bass Daude "Marinheiro So" has a bass tone sweep at the end that's low as anything I've heard and finally the hardest track. Eddie Gomez version of "we will meet again" there is a stand up bass solo overdub over another bass played at a much lower register that's a bit tricky to resolve both. For soundstage Abbey Lincoln "bird alone", that old chestnut "take 5" and Bill Evans "Gloria's Steps".

Undamped completely was awful wet cardboard bass, cloudy undefined lower register with a hollow empty plastic ambience to everything. The low bass was just about completely absent and the soundstage didn't do anything particularly impressive, without dampening these were just bad.

With the thick horse felt damper with the venting holes the bass jumped back up and the cloudiness lifted and things started to sound like music. The kick drum on California had a good percussiveness to it but was a just a tiny bit loose. Soundstage is wide but imaging suffers a bit The Bill Evans track didn't sound quite so hard
panned but still the seems to be a bit of diffusion.

The area where I notice that things are a little bit undamped is with the Eddie Gomez recording some of the bass parts run together just a tad too much and become undefined. There is a just a slight bump in the mid-bass not objectionable but it's there adding a bit more emphasis and body to instruments.

Adding in the original felt into the body of the PMB100 bass got deeper and slightly better defined. The bass parts of the Eddie Gomez tracks are more defined as separate. The soundstage is now narrower but imaging also seems better defined from this narrowing. As well some coloration seems to be removed and the sound is cleaned up and more neutral.

So I'm pretty much back to the way I received the headphones except I've not got the grills on. I think that they made the compromises they had to leaving the the advantage of the float frame while boosting the bass a just slightly. There is bass there but it's just a bit undamped to my ear and the daude track really pushes the driver hard, maybe too hard. There seems to be a sympathetic rattle in the driver could be dust, hair or the driver giving up the ghost.

Adding a layer of craft felt under the stock felt behind the driver definitely dampens the bass but it maybe just a step too far and knocks down the bottom end bump too much.

All of this listen was done without the rear grill on, adding the grills back adds a touch back to the top end back to things that was missing.

Ultimately I'm thinking that the way I received these headphones was a good tuning of the headphone just slightly underdamped not sure if the holes in the felt weren't there if it would cross the line into over damped or not.

It's a bit of a frustrating thing as it's really close to where I'd like it to be, I think I need to start back from scratch but this PMB just may be teasing me with the idea of improvement.

 

[wualta]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JadeEast ..but this PMB just may be teasing me with the idea of improvement.

This has always been my sneaking suspicion, but all my sneaking suspicions are provisional; I'd love to be proven wrong.

The PMB 100 you're working on is the socalled Mk 1, right? It came from the factory with felt and has the extra-holey driver?

 

[scompton]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wualta /img/forum/go_quote.gif Good to hear you like 'em for any non-Hindemith purposes. You can unbend the headband and make 'em less clampy. What did you decide to use for a damping layer?

It's not that they're bad for classical, I just prefer the wide sound stage of other headphones.

I used craft felt and followed your instructions from the ATH-2 thread.

1. felt under the wires on the back of the driver
2. donut of felt over the vents
3. donut hole over hole in center of cup
4. orginal foam donut and yellow stuff over the felt in the cup
5. springy foam filling the cup

I didn't put a reflex disk in and they probably could use it. It's tilted a bit to the bass. The mids are very nice, not at all honky like they were before the mod.

 

[wualta]

If you like the bass as the headphones are now, just pop in the reflex dot under the felt disk. If the bass is at all sloppy (which it usually is if the spectrum is tilted up at the bass end, but not always), swap the craft felt for some superduperfelt and watch the spectrum flatten out, but be prepared for the bass to dry out a little. It'll be hella tight, though, and with boost it will be downright dangerous.

 

[JadeEast]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wualta /img/forum/go_quote.gif The PMB 100 you're working on is the socalled Mk 1, right? It came from the factory with felt and has the extra-holey driver?

That's the one.

 

[scompton]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wualta /img/forum/go_quote.gif If you like the bass as the headphones are now, just pop in the reflex dot under the felt disk. If the bass is at all sloppy (which it usually is if the spectrum is tilted up at the bass end, but not always), swap the craft felt for some superduperfelt and watch the spectrum flatten out, but be prepared for the bass to dry out a little. It'll be hella tight, though, and with boost it will be downright dangerous.

I'll try that on the ATH-2. I need to get an amp that does bass boost on the headphone out. My NAD doesn't. It bypasses most of the controls for the headphone jack. I keep bidding on vintage amps. They always seem to go for a few dollars more than my bid.

 

[ludoo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by scompton /img/forum/go_quote.gif I keep bidding on vintage amps. They always seem to go for a few dollars more than my bid.

Off topic and probably redundant, but I've won quite a few auctions by bidding only in the last 15 seconds. Decide the maximum price you want to pay for the item, keep refreshing to check the current price, then if it's still below your threshold at 15-20 seconds max place your bid with your maximum price. 8 times out of 10 you get the item.

 

[scompton]

Ah, but they're going over what my max bid is. I'm keeping the max bid down because shipping is so high on vintage amps. Most of them weigh a ton and $50 shipping is typical. I saw one especially heavy one with $90 shipping.

 

[wualta]

Quote:

Originally Posted by scompton /img/forum/go_quote.gif Ah, but shipping is so high on vintage amps. Most of them weigh a ton and $50 shipping is typical. I saw one especially heavy one with $90 shipping.

Those sound like auctions to avoid. A chunky receiver like the STA-2200 usually ships for $25-30.

Which amps have you been looking at?

One of the nice things about buying a Panaphonic digital receiver is the low shipping weight. I just had a seller refund me about one third of the shipping. A similar advantage will apply to the shipping of a mini component.

Quote:

Originally Posted by scompton I need to get an amp that does bass boost on the headphone out. My NAD doesn't. It bypasses most of the controls for the headphone jack.

That cinches it-- I'll never buy a NAD product for as long as I live, and longer.

luddoo, it looks like the original bidder really wants that Pro 30. I've never seen a Pro 30 go that high. Never fear, though, the SFIs are still cheap.

 

[scompton]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wualta /img/forum/go_quote.gif Those sound like auctions to avoid. A chunky receiver like the STA-2200 usually ships for $25-30. Which amps have you been looking at? One of the nice things about buying a Panaphonic digital receiver is the low shipping weight. I just had a seller refund me about one third of the shipping. A similar advantage will apply to the shipping of a mini component.

I've been looking at the STA-2200 and other mosfet amps that you've mentioned. I've also been looking at some Panasonics, nikko and some others. Last month, I started looking every thing in vintage electronics within 25 miles of where I live. So far nothing has come up that I want. I've seen at least one STA-2200 with $50 shipping.


Quote:

Originally Posted by wualta /img/forum/go_quote.gif That cinches it-- I'll never buy a NAD product for as long as I live, and longer.

It only cost me $10 at Goodwill, so I'm still happy with it. Edit: I just noticed the price tag is still on the side. It was $20.