[nick n]

ATH-1 ^^^
oh nice. So you are liking the magic Sponge.
I think those actually look cooler than the 2's.

yeah that will be an SFI.
but there are a few different ones around.
Different housings ( plastic clamping housings, metal clamped housings ), ohms, front/rear dust cover material ( fabric, fine metal meshes ) spacers ( perhaps ) even ones with more holes per side or similar ( IIRC )
Pro30 is an SFI for instance and can get going quite well in the bass department right off the bat vs some of the others.
The Technics 63ohm versions have generally seemed less bassy in my experience ( which could be case specific )

It's been a while so I am unsure if AT ever made their own at all or Sawafuji was the OEM always.
Anyone?
Did i totally screw up that info?

So they call it a FLAT DRIVE.

• 20 -20,000 hz
  
• Allowable input 1000 mW ( 1 minute continuous )
• Sensitivity 93 dB / mW @ 1kHz
• low-noise Y type soft cord
• weight 190 grams including cord / 145 grams without cord
  
• released around 1978, end of production around 1981

hope that helps

~N

 

[nick n]

always nice to get a fresh set of impressions on the PM-2 thanks.
Still on my radar.
The double sided diaphragms I think also use a special coating, and maybe a multi layer film.
Igor ( the driver designer )sure knows his stuff, it'd be nice to see him do something unconstrained by contractual obligations of various sorts.

 

[Jimster480]

always nice to get a fresh set of impressions on the PM-2 thanks.
Still on my radar

It has a similar sound signature to the AH-MM400 which is also tuned flat. But they have a distinct upper frequency response difference. This makes vocals slightly recessed on some tracks/

 

[nick n]

I wonder if the semi open nature of the PM2 is the factor there. Denon 400 woodies are a vented mostly ( moreso ) closed are they not?
Can't recall if the Denon vent at all around the silver cup badging.

Did you try putting your hands up to the rears of the PM-2 various amounts to see if things pop forward more with the particular tracks you noticed that on.
the old hand cup trick= I still do that alot with things.
And secretly blowing through fabric after holding to the light in stores, so long as *hopefully* nobody sees me doing so.
Sounds creepy sure, but it's the price we pay for awesome.

*** Oh wait I can read the post 2 ways, do you mean the Denon are a bit recessed sometimes or the PM-2?

 

[Jimster480]

I wonder if the semi open nature of the PM2 is the factor there. Denon 400 woodies are a vented mostly ( moreso ) closed are they not?
Can't recall if the Denon vent at all around the silver cup badging.

Did you try putting your hands up to the rears of the PM-2 various amounts to see if things pop forward more with the particular tracks you noticed that on.
the old hand cup trick= I still do that alot with things.
And secretly blowing through fabric after holding to the light in stores, so long as *hopefully* nobody sees me doing so.
Sounds creepy sure, but it's the price we pay for awesome.

Yes the MM400 is closed.
I've tried covering the PM-2's and it doesn't change the sound much but yes sometimes voices can come a bit more forward, happens with some piano pieces too.
I'm also using the PM-1 Suede pads, supposedly the signature will change some if I use either of the other two sets of pads.

Honestly the MM400 really punches way above its price class since its details and separation, etc are all incredible for its price. The PM-2 is "better" but this depends on what you like, and its open backed which isn't the same as the closed back. Although the PM-2 does have more of a "closed headphone" sound as others have said too.
Personally I have been alternating back and forth between the two as wearing open backed headphones is sometimes not possible at my house due to having a kid.

 

[nick n]

ahh I see.
The Oppo series was quite heavily damped.
Igor wanted to lessen the effects of outside influences affecting/changing/influencing the sound in different environments as can often happen with open backs.
So he damped them to the point where they still keep a somewhat open sound, while making sure they are not affected much. Interesting concept.
I have done that with one old mod here a while ago.

Denons sure look nice...

 

[Jimster480]

ahh I see.
The Oppo series was quite heavily damped.
Igor wanted to lessen the effects of outside influences affecting/changing/influencing the sound in different environments as can often happen with open backs.
So he damped them to the point where they still keep a somewhat open sound, while making sure they are not affected much. Interesting concept.
I have done that with one old mod here a while ago.

Denons sure look nice...

Its really a great headphone, infact better than the AH-D7200. I loved the MM400 so much I bought the D7200 expecting it to be better... only to be sorely disappointed.
Its inferior in comfort, sound quality, weight, clamping force, etc.
It has over-emphasized bass and very recessed highs (-13db difference from low to high) and it has a major driver flaw which causes a 2.5khz ringing with every 5khz tone (D7200).

I if I have to keep two headphones only; so far its the MM400 & the PM-2, the YH-2 doesn't count as I paid basically pennies for it and it sounds nice for Jazz.

I also have a mrspeakers Aeon coming... after buying @Feilong4 YH-2 I ended up with an Ortho addiction.... but I don't think I can keep them all lol

 

[nick n]

Best part about it is there are so many designs and presentations of sound.
I'll keep my eyes peeled on the 400 front.

 

[Jimster480]

Best part about it is there are so many designs and presentations of sound.
I'll keep my eyes peeled on the 400 front.

Check ebay!
I got my MM400 for around $200 and it was open box.
But you can order direct from Japan (if you are in the USA) for around $275. That was what I was going to do before I stumbled on the open box deal.

 

[Feilong4]

ATH-1 ^^^
oh nice. So you are liking the magic Sponge.
I think those actually look cooler than the 2's.

yeah that will be an SFI.
but there are a few different ones around.
Different housings ( plastic clamping housings, metal clamped housings ), ohms, front/rear dust cover material ( fabric, fine metal meshes ) spacers ( perhaps ) even ones with more holes per side or similar ( IIRC )
Pro30 is an SFI for instance and can get going quite well in the bass department right off the bat vs some of the others.
The Technics 63ohm versions have generally seemed less bassy in my experience ( which could be case specific )

It's been a while so I am unsure if AT ever made their own at all or Sawafuji was the OEM always.
Anyone?
Did i totally screw up that info?

So they call it a FLAT DRIVE.

• 20 -20,000 hz
  
• Allowable input 1000 mW ( 1 minute continuous )
• Sensitivity 93 dB / mW @ 1kHz
• low-noise Y type soft cord
• weight 190 grams including cord / 145 grams without cord
  
• released around 1978, end of production around 1981

hope that helps

~N

Yeah, though I haven't tried experimenting with other damping materials, the magic sponge seems to be working its magic.

I'm liking the look of the ATH-1 a lot more than the ATH-2 as well. It looks less dated and actually pretty nice.

Thanks for the info!

 

[WallofHooligans]

Glad to see this thread picking up again. Warms the cockles.
On the bit about the yhd-1 vs the yh-1, I prefer the sound of the yh-1 more, but I haven't had the nerve to take apart my yhd-1 and possibly destroy the earpad thingmebobs. To be quite frank, I found the yhd-1 to be a bloomy mess, wobbly unkempt bass and a roll off in treble below what I generally prefer. I think that they need some tlc to get them right, but the flat earpads and looseness on the head definitely don't help.
An unmodified yh-1 sounds slightly too sterile and analytical, but has some interesting potential. Modded with a fiberglass donut and a circle of sorbothane over the internals of the headband strut makes for an engaging sound. The modded yh-1 has two really interesting things to it, lifelike representation of sound and one of the largest soundstages I've pulled out of an ortho thus far.

Speaking further into my experiences with hp-3/yh-3 I've figured out why they sound so different. As you would expect, it's quality control. I have two pairs, one from Fei on here which I tried in a few different configurations and one pair stock with pristine pads. The pair from the fellow head fier came to me pre-modded, but I couldn't get much volume out of it. I think it was damped too heavily with cotton.
The unmodified one had even less volume on one side! Welp, I opened it up and realized that the magnets were misaligned and then glued like that. The magnet sandwich had become loose and could be turned freely after removing some glue. Here's what they look like after turning the magnets to an optimal point. Notice the blobs of green glue, and how far they had to be turned to achieve a volume balance.

Fei's pair had tight magnets, but the diaphragm on one side stuck out from the edges by a quarter of a milimeter.

All in all, you can make them sound greatly detailed, but they sound strangely colored. They don't have any realness to them. Reminds me of how bizarre a beyer dt-48 sounds without a really good seal over the ears.

 

[nick n]

Hutnicks was the one who recommended Magic Sponge to me, and I have yet to apply it.

^Hooligans do any of those have the square chamfered driver holes?
So that glued misaligned magnet was stock do you think?
There has been some SFI's with crazily misaligned holes on both sides also when thrown up against a light.
I guess that would matter possibly to keep the throw resistance equal ( within a single driver say ) as well as not helping if one is like that and one is not in your case.
That's something i had wondered about but never heard from a person who compared in the same headphones. Seems like a big difference! ( the SFI one had both drivers like that so no difference comparison )

yeah nice to see even more confirmation about the accepted quality control thing that has shown up here and there throughout the whole thread in the Yamaha line.

I noticed some of that also within the HP-50 series which is essentially an HP-3, but also not.
HP50A ,HP50S, HP50.
Some are always mono some are dual entry etc etc ( add your favourite combo here )
The regular HP50 without the headband seems to be the bassier, generally.


Wow am I getting rusty.

 

[WallofHooligans]

How is the headband on the Ath-1 treating you? They were too painful for me after only a few minutes, the center of the headband presses into the top of my skull.
I never went forward with modifying them at all.

@nick n Nope, no square holes. I've noticed that fostex stuff doesn't have the same problem with misaligned magnets as yamaha. Fostex drills one big hole in each magnet sandwich that aligns on both sides if I remember correctly. Not to mention the polarity is also identified by icons on the plastic bits.
The glue was almost definitely stock, all four drivers that I looked at had the same glue, but not in the same places. Not even the same amount of glue. Each one had a slight difference in alignment of the magnets, tightness of the rivet and alignment of the drivers. For example, the unmodified pair of yh-3 would crinkle if you had a good seal on the ears. Feilong's pair only crinkle slightly on one side.

 

[Feilong4]

Glad to see this thread picking up again. Warms the cockles.
On the bit about the yhd-1 vs the yh-1, I prefer the sound of the yh-1 more, but I haven't had the nerve to take apart my yhd-1 and possibly destroy the earpad thingmebobs. To be quite frank, I found the yhd-1 to be a bloomy mess, wobbly unkempt bass and a roll off in treble below what I generally prefer. I think that they need some tlc to get them right, but the flat earpads and looseness on the head definitely don't help.
An unmodified yh-1 sounds slightly too sterile and analytical, but has some interesting potential. Modded with a fiberglass donut and a circle of sorbothane over the internals of the headband strut makes for an engaging sound. The modded yh-1 has two really interesting things to it, lifelike representation of sound and one of the largest soundstages I've pulled out of an ortho thus far.

Speaking further into my experiences with hp-3/yh-3 I've figured out why they sound so different. As you would expect, it's quality control. I have two pairs, one from Fei on here which I tried in a few different configurations and one pair stock with pristine pads. The pair from the fellow head fier came to me pre-modded, but I couldn't get much volume out of it. I think it was damped too heavily with cotton.
The unmodified one had even less volume on one side! Welp, I opened it up and realized that the magnets were misaligned and then glued like that. The magnet sandwich had become loose and could be turned freely after removing some glue. Here's what they look like after turning the magnets to an optimal point. Notice the blobs of green glue, and how far they had to be turned to achieve a volume balance.


Fei's pair had tight magnets, but the diaphragm on one side stuck out from the edges by a quarter of a milimeter.

All in all, you can make them sound greatly detailed, but they sound strangely colored. They don't have any realness to them. Reminds me of how bizarre a beyer dt-48 sounds without a really good seal over the ears.

Yeah, to be honest I have no idea what I'm doing when it comes to damping. I'm just using what I've learned from reading and asking around, and experimenting and hoping for a good result. Opening up headphones really inspired me to try different materials as well.

How is the headband on the Ath-1 treating you? They were too painful for me after only a few minutes, the center of the headband presses into the top of my skull.
I never went forward with modifying them at all.

Because the HE-500 used to be my daily driver, I think my tolerance is a lot higher now haha. With stock pads, it's alright though I haven't had them on long enough to notice any discomfort. I'm just not too fond of the pad-less headband. I blu-tacked an older HD650 headband padding on and it's more comfortable now. With the Dekoni Beats pads, it's really nice although they warm my ears kinda quick.

 

[WallofHooligans]

I had no idea that the he-500 was uncomfortable. That seems like a crime: expensive headphones that are painful to wear. This is coming from a guy that finds his Fostex t10 to be quite comfy.
I actually ordered a few of those sennheiser hd 600 headband pad thingies recently. Great to have some of those around. They go for like 2 bucks off ebay. I plan on putting them on a pair of realistic pro30. Those compare in discomfort to the ath-1, but I can tolerate them for a few hours.

Man, I never hear about anyone with a fostex t30 anymore. It's like every owner slinked off into their caves to sit on their treasure hoard. I would love to have one.
(Off topic) I made a thread in diy about a set of Stanton sixties that I'm fixing up. If you have any technical know how, I could use some help. Thanks boyos.