Orthodynamic Roundup

[spritzer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wualta /img/forum/go_quote.gif That's good news about others using JansZen's old idea. The last time I seriously looked into ESLs, everyone but Acoustat was using perforated sheet metal, and now that I think about it, that was at least 20 years ago.. [size=xx-small]["yikes" emoticon here][/size] And yeah, scaling it down might be a problem.

It's a very good stator material due to extra openness. Some have adopted a hybrid which is sheet metal with long perforations. I belive the new Sanders Sound speakers use this for stator material. Precide also used something similar in the Jecklin PS2 though with much shorter openings.

I now have the sudden urge to spend the rest of this Saturday night experimenting with wire stators...

 

[facelvega]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faust2D /img/forum/go_quote.gif There is a sweetness / smoothness to YH-1 mids that even YH-100 or Lambdas don't have.

Alright, YH-1 or YH-100 I can see-- for all their technical excellence, "sweet" and "smooth" is not a word I'd use to describe the Yamaha drivers. The otherwise inferior MB drivers easily trump them on that, and it doesn't surprise me if the Fostex drivers do too. But more than the Lambda? I can't believe it. Is this perhaps part of your Lambda withdrawal in the light of the buttery Sigma sound?

 

[Markse]

Hi Eric and Facelvega,

I just took them apart again to measure:
Outer diameter: 41mm
Aperture: 30mm
Thickness: 11mm

It is a plastic enclosure and I gingerly tried to pry it open but I don't want to wreck them so I gave up. The membrane has a center connection and doesn't look particularly taught.

What are these SFI tweeters? Do you have a link? (EDIT: just found them on Ebay- yes they do look very similar apart from having an aluminium band holding them together.)

I'm thinking that this backwave arrangement is to give enough room for loading the back of the membrane (shouldn't it be impedance matched to the front side for optimum performance?) while keeping them reasonably low profile.

I should say that the feel of these is not great quality- the headband is very easily bent out of shape for example and the plastic is cheap. I think Eagle products were generally pretty poor quality. In one of my mags from the 60's there's a review of one of their then brand new amps which resulted in a total slating. There's an addendum that Eagle International had decided to abandon the product before release! I think they were one of the first companies bringing Japanese produce to the British Hi-Fi market and aimed at the lower end of the market. Still, these headphones definitely have something going for them!

Mark

 

[ericj]

Quote:

Originally Posted by scompton /img/forum/go_quote.gif That amp would probably work sitting on end. I just have limited desk space. I've been looking at vintage, but they're all too big. Right now, I have a Super T and a Magnavox stat and AT electret transformers stacked on top of each other. A smallish vintage amp or preamp would be ideal, if such a thing exists.

I'm right there with you, but i've found a couple solutions.

Back in the 80's my parents had some gear my older brother brought back from his job at a music store - an Akai bookshelf set that started out as separate amp, preamp, tape deck, and tuner - all of these about 13" square. Apparently it had been returned with a dead tape deck which was scrapped, and then they gave the tuner to someone else who'd had a unit with a bad tuner. And at some point some minor repairs were done to the power amp section. When i was a teenger, whenever mom and dad were gone, we beat the hell out of the amp and preamp, until finally one day the amp died.

So several months ago i found the amp part and was able to track down it's death to a melted fuse holder and a blown resistor in the power supply. Some day i hope to find the preamp section, but i could also just use one of my many headphone amps as a preamp.

Over on my computer desk, i decided i wanted an integrated amp/preamp and went with a Rotel RA-820BX picked up on ebay for $90. It works quite well. This is 19 inches wide but less than 3 inches tall, and there's a skinny shelf on that desk that it slides right into with ample room for venting.

Here's the kicker: I find the Akai to be slightly bright and the Rotel to be slightly dark. So it turns out that the Rotel pairs well with my Staxen and not so well with my Sony ECR-500, which sounds better with the Akai. So, I'm not actually making progress on the reduction-of-boxes front.

 

[Faust2D]

Quote:

Originally Posted by facelvega /img/forum/go_quote.gif Alright, YH-1 or YH-100 I can see-- for all their technical excellence, "sweet" and "smooth" is not a word I'd use to describe the Yamaha drivers. The otherwise inferior MB drivers easily trump them on that, and it doesn't surprise me if the Fostex drivers do too. But more than the Lambda? I can't believe it. Is this perhaps part of your Lambda withdrawal in the light of the buttery Sigma sound?

Well, I like the YH-1 for very smooth midrange mostly, thats were we are differ in opinions I think. You for instance commented that my small amp was a bit harsh in the mids and high frequencies, I did a critical listening session and don't quite hear that. At the same time I perceived A250 and PMB500 overly aggressive in the mids, you see PMB500 as sweet. So there is a difference in perception that we have here. I wonder what is this that we hear differently.

 

[ericj]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markse /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hi Eric and Facelvega, I just took them apart again to measure: Outer diameter: 41mm Aperture: 30mm Thickness: 11mm

interesting - the Audio-Technica and SFI drivers (which are nearly identical to each-other) are 38mm in diameter. These must just be slightly more distant relative.

 

[facelvega]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faust2D /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well, I like the YH-1 for very smooth midrange mostly, thats were we are differ in opinions I think. You for instance commented that my small amp was a bit harsh in the mids and high frequencies, I did a critical listening session and don't quite hear that. At the same time I perceived A250 and PMB500 overly aggressive in the mids, you see PMB500 as sweet. So there is a difference in perception that we have here. I wonder what is this that we hear differently.

I think it might be part terminology, part hearing. If by smooth you mean a flat response curve, then maybe I can agree with you, but smooth paired with sweet makes me think more as a character of a particular headphone quite apart from a flat response in itself. I think your little amp is harsh in the highs more than the mids, which I imagine could be changed with one of your other tubes. Beyond this, I think possibly we're hitting both a terminological and a hearing difference on the question of mids. What you're calling sweet I'd call a bit lifeless, what I call sweet you'd call aggressive.

Now that I think of it, though, this might not be such a hearing issue after all-- your music is way more electric and rock-oriented than mine. Although we have significant overlap in avant-garde and critic's choice stuff, I tend to have acoustic and vocal music where you have metal, and string quartets where you have guitar virtuosos. That's maybe 1/3 of each of our collections, and could in itself explain our preferences in the mids.

 

[facelvega]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ericj /img/forum/go_quote.gif interesting - the Audio-Technica and SFI drivers (which are nearly identical to each-other) are 38mm in diameter. These must just be slightly more distant relative.

unless that's 3mm of plastic housing around it, in which case it's a match after all.

 

[ericj]

Quote:

Originally Posted by facelvega /img/forum/go_quote.gif unless that's 3mm of plastic housing around it, in which case it's a match after all.

Yeah, the thought had crossed my mind that it could just be a plastic collar around the same flippin driver.

 

[Faust2D]

Quote:

Originally Posted by facelvega /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think it might be part terminology, part hearing. If by smooth you mean a flat response curve, then maybe I can agree with you, but smooth paired with sweet makes me think more as a character of a particular headphone quite apart from a flat response in itself. I think your little amp is harsh in the highs more than the mids, which I imagine could be changed with one of your other tubes. Beyond this, I think possibly we're hitting both a terminological and a hearing difference on the question of mids. What you're calling sweet I'd call a bit lifeless, what I call sweet you'd call aggressive. Now that I think of it, though, this might not be such a hearing issue after all-- your music is way more electric and rock-oriented than mine. Although we have significant overlap in avant-garde and critic's choice stuff, I tend to have acoustic and vocal music where you have metal, and string quartets where you have guitar virtuosos. That's maybe 1/3 of each of our collections, and could in itself explain our preferences in the mids.

Well I have almost no acoustic singer-songwriter vocal music, as you noticed. I mostly listen to avant-garde jazz, rock, progrock and a bit of extreme metal and grind-core. I also listen lot to old krautrock and early electronic music. The avant-garde also tends to be more of the "chaotic and atonal kind" so that might explain a lot. I still think we hear things differently, especially the perceived midrange smoothness.

With that cleared out it would be much easier to asses each others opinions.

 

[wualta]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faust2D They got more bass than YH-1 now, I think about the amount that YH-100 had. They are still not as flat as SR-X and not as fast, but much more relaxed and have bass punch like no other. There is a sweetness / smoothness to YH-1 mids that even YH-100 or Lambdas don't have.

Ah, I see. You took a page from the PMB 100 Mk I book and enholed the damping layer. You essentially damped to taste, trading some flatness for extra bass. Which is your birthright as a member of the orthodynamoisie.

As for the YH-1 mids, it's arguable, of course, but I tend to agree, as surprising as that may sound. I was never entirely satisfied with the lower-mids in my YH-100s (which tells me they needed a little more damping), but the HP/YH [aka YP]-1's sound was pretty much spot on with the Stage One treatment. Lambda midrange is ultrasmooth (which covers a multitude of sins), but it's not flat. Of course, to cavil about this would be akin to complaining that [[size=xx-small]insert your favorite supermodel's name here[/size]] can't cook Szechuan.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markse Still, these [Eagle] headphones definitely have something going for them!

If they're similar to the SFIs, yes, they should, and with some extra headstage too. The driver package looks like a miniature Fostex element, but it's just a plastic retainer-- it might even be holding the magnets together, Fostex style (T20/40).

By the way, there is no center electrode. Both leads exit to the side, as in the SFI driver.

 

[scompton]

I can't find a post on the definitive mod for the HP-1. I put craft felt behind one driver, but it didn't make much of a difference. Do I need to use super felt? The highs already sound pretty good to me, so unless further damping effects them, I don't think I need a reflex dot.

Edit: I worked in the yard all day today and pollen is so bad it's probably not the best time for me to judge sounds.

 

[billinkansas]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faust2D /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well, I got a bit of the mid/low bass back, other then that they are still flat. They got more bass than YH-1 now, I think about the amount that YH-100 had. They are still not as flat as SR-X and not as fast, but much more relaxed and have bass punch like no other. There is a sweetness / smoothness to YH-1 mids that even YH-100 or Lambdas don't have. ...

I would absolutely agree with you about the YH-1 mids. With my quickie earpad mod it is even sweeter.

I really like the SR-X a lot, but it sometimes can sound like a cat fight after listening to the YH-1, even out of the Fisher tube amp.

 

[wualta]

Quote:

Originally Posted by scompton /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've been looking at vintage, but they're all too big. Right now, I have a Super T and a Magnavox stat and AT electret transformers stacked on top of each other. A smallish vintage amp or preamp would be ideal, if such a thing exists.

How about something from the minicomponent craze of the late '70s/early '80s? something like Toshiba's Series 15, assuming you have room for the amp and preamp. Or Hitachi's HM-A2, an integrated amp. Technics made a lot of these; so did Mitsubishi, Onkyo...

HF member IceClass has two of the Toshiba amps. They're swell-lookin'.

Quote:

Originally Posted by scompton /img/forum/go_quote.gif I can't find a post on the definitive mod for the HP-1. I put craft felt behind one driver, but it didn't make much of a difference. Do I need to use super felt? Edit: I worked in the yard all day today and pollen is so bad it's probably not the best time for me to judge sounds.

Only one driver?
The pollen could be your answer too, hard to tell from here, but the canonic felt mod for the YH-1 is basically what you describe, although I put a disc of paper behind the felt disc. It's very important that the felt (and paper, if any) be pressed firmly against the driver, so if the pukey-orange Yamafoam disc seems at all wimpy, stick in some nice stiff new opencell foam. While you're at it, line the cup with felt too. Be sure to cover the metal socket thingy. Craft felt should be just fine.

 

[facelvega]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faust2D /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well I have almost no acoustic singer-songwriter vocal music, as you noticed. I mostly listen to avant-garde jazz, rock, progrock and a bit of extreme metal and grind-core. I also listen lot to old krautrock and early electronic music. The avant-garde also tends to be more of the "chaotic and atonal kind" so that might explain a lot. I still think we hear things differently, especially the perceived midrange smoothness. With that cleared out it would be much easier to asses each others opinions.

In all your large collection, you've got about 4 albums with women's voices on them, while I have about 400, nearly as many as I have with men's voices. Oddly, I didn't even realize this myself until eyeballing it just now. But it is certainly true that when listening to the same albums on the same rigs, we've disagreed.