Orthodynamic Roundup

[PDOT]

wualta,
Now I listened to тдс 15 more atentevely and can say-"Yes, it does". ТДС 15 uses the driver which is 4\4sm. It is not enough to produce lower-bass. Besides, the membranes of a ТДС 15 are not very elastic so it is very difficult to mod this headphones. But the sound is opened-this fact is good for us. The mid-bass of тдс15 is well-damped, however. Fostex t-50rp has another kind of bass-it is stringy and warm. But moded t-50rp does well at middle and highs. It sounds pleasant. I like to listen to jazz with a help of t-50.
When i began working at the fostex i tried to damp the drivers without removing it's native damper but i was dissapointed...It did not react. I removed old damper and realised fostex's membrane was very elastic and it would be possible to change the sound.
It seems to me, well-modded fostex t-50rp sounds interesting. Тдс 15 is not bad but i can not make it better.

 

[khbaur330162]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ericj /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yeah. There's something right about them, but it's overpowered by all the things wrong with them.

Idk... They can hold their own against the ECR-500 which you seem to hold in -relative to the ATH-2 at least- high regard. They're just a bit bass heavy, but move the drivers out a tiny bit ala angling 'em and they don't sound too shabby by any means, imo.

But, again, the pads can help! I found these little vinyl pads that are ever so slightly thicker (a few millimeters perhaps) and have a larger inner diameter (doesn't cover up any holes, albeit you say this probably does nothing) and the bass really clears up. I just need to find a happy medium because both the stock housings + different pads as well as my CD380 enclosure attenuate bass too much and push the mids up just a tad too close for my liking. However, I actually enjoy the sound sig a lot on Eric Clapton albums (Reptile rocks!) almost exclusively. These just need a bit of tweaking I think. I'm gonna experiment with damping materials before I shove the drivers in a new enclosure, but I have somewhat high hopes for my little project, regardless of the fact they'll be using supposedly inferior drivers.

 

[wualta]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PDOT Besides, the membranes of a ТДС 15 are not very elastic so it is very difficult to mod this headphones. Тдс 15 is not bad but i can not make it better.

You've touched on the ugly secret of some isodynamics-- the diaphragm is tensioned so high (usually for safety reasons) that deep bass is impossible.

The T50RP diaphragm has enough "give" (or, as you would say, "elasticity") to produce bass; we know this because when we force in enough bass equalization, we can hear it.

I'm sad to hear the diaphragm in the TDS-15 is so tight. If you turn up the bass, I assume not much happens. Correct?

 

[ericj]

Quote:

Originally Posted by khbaur330162 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Idk... They can hold their own against the ECR-500 which you seem to hold in -relative to the ATH-2 at least- high regard. They're just a bit bass heavy, but move the drivers out a tiny bit ala angling 'em and they don't sound too shabby by any means, imo.

So you've angled the drivers in a pair?

I find the response with stock damping to be slow and sloppy. in essence the transient response is poor, as is heard with most underdamped orthos.

The ECR-500 isn't SR-X III fast, but it's certainly faster.

 

[khbaur330162]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ericj /img/forum/go_quote.gif So you've angled the drivers in a pair? I find the response with stock damping to be slow and sloppy. in essence the transient response is poor, as is heard with most underdamped orthos. The ECR-500 isn't SR-X III fast, but it's certainly faster.

I should take more pictures of the CD380 housing to give you guys a better idea of what exactly I've done. I went back in and tampered around, swapped out some damping material and fixed an off-balance between L and R. While I was there I basically aimed to construct a rudimentary bass-reflector design composed of solely sticky tac. They sound dang good, but I dunno how much difference there is from before. :/

Yes, the ECR-500 sounds a tad faster to my ears, but w/o EQ the ATH-2 drivers in the CD380 housing are more tonally correct, imo. The ATH-2's also pick up a lot of speed once you can kill off some of the way over bloated bass hump. I actually wouldn't mind a bit more bass, hence the attempt at a waveguide.

 

[wualta]

Quote:

Originally Posted by khbaur330162 /img/forum/go_quote.gif [The ATH-2 is] just a bit bass heavy, but move the drivers out a tiny bit ala angling 'em and they don't sound too shabby by any means, imo. I found these little vinyl pads that are ever so slightly thicker (a few millimeters perhaps) and have a larger inner diameter and the bass really clears up. ... I have somewhat high hopes for my little project, regardless of the fact they'll be using supposedly inferior drivers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by eric I find the response with stock damping to be slow and sloppy. in essence the transient response is poor, as is heard with most underdamped orthos.

As Eric says, the bass bloat you hear is simple underdamping. You can, of course, "cure" the bass bloat by simply moving the diaphragm away from the ear. This is a trick that works the same way for just about any headphone (though not the Lambda). It does nothing for the 'phone's actual "speed", ie, transient response, but it does make the 'phone appear "faster", because this maneuver gives a dramatic reverse tilt to the stock bass-tilted frequency response. This could be called the quickie or noninvasive, not to say lazy man's ortho mod. The disadvantages are the hit in bass transient response (= impact) and the lack of any deep bass. Sennheiser HD 414 pads could probably be made to fit and would accomplish a similar tweakle of the response curve. It's quick but it's dirty.

I don't think the ATH-2's drivers are inferior in any way except possibly their size. In some enclosures (eg, the Pro 30), that driver can sound a little bright, but I continue to be surprised by what can be coaxed out of it. However, the ATH-2 enclosure isn't optimum for it except possibly fashionwise. I hope Eric does his Ream It Out mod and gets the driver flush with the baffle.

.

 

[PDOT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wualta /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm sad to hear the diaphragm in the TDS-15 is so tight. If you turn up the bass, I assume not much happens. Correct?

I made a weak damping in ТДС 15 so it reacts at EQ. I should say my тдс15 is new-they must work some more time. I have no enough time (because of my work) to make them playing for a day or two. It is early to draw a conclusion.
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Later: Тдс 15 (moded) sounds without low-bass, but there is good mid-bass. This headphones is crystal and detail. In comparison with beyerdynamic dt880 it has less of bass (it is not far cry), tds 15's middle is better, highs are also clear and detail. There are too much of highs in bayers(In my humble opinion). The soundstage of the bayers is deeper and better.

 

[marcocopopololo]

I was owner of a nice pair of Yamaha YP3 from the 1980's. I used them for 20 years until they get broke few years ago. I accidentaly walked on the cable and they were throwed at the floor very hard; then one side was not working anymore. I put them apart to check if the driver was in cause, then I put the whole thing in the garbage. I did regret this when I went to buy new ones and discover, to my surprise, these headphones were no longer available!

I liked these heaphones for their wonderful design, confort and sound... and I should say thew were incredibly solid, since in these years there was numerous accidents with them, and each time I was suprised they survive.

I never found satisfying heaphones to replace them, and in 2007 I finally had the idea to check on eBay. With some chance, I found a pair of YP-3 in mint condition then, one month later, a very nice pair of HP-1 that needed only replacement of headband (easy to do). I then found this very interesting thread and try the damping with (new experiment so far!) cotton pads made for removing of makup. I think that for density and permeability to the air, they should compare to felt. I dont want to open the headphones too often, so I will stay with it for now. But the result sounds really GREAT to my ears... Now, I have to try this with the YP-3 too.

Now, a question. In the 1980's, I bought the YP-3 because my piano teacher told me they were less harmfull to the ears than others headphones (and this is also the reason why I did not want to buy another kind of headphones after they were broken). Does somebody in this thread ever heard about that, or have some opinion about it?

 

[scompton]

I was in a dry cleaners yesterday. They had CNN on their TV and it was advertising some Time/Life country album. In almost every clip of a singer, they were wearing Fostex v2 headphones.

 

[ericj]

Quote:

Originally Posted by marcocopopololo /img/forum/go_quote.gif Now, a question. In the 1980's, I bought the YP-3 because my piano teacher told me they were less harmfull to the ears than others headphones (and this is also the reason why I did not want to buy another kind of headphones after they were broken). Does somebody in this thread ever heard about that, or have some opinion about it?

I've not heard that before.

Typically the way people damage their ears with headphones is by listening too loud. In that case, it's the sound pressure level that does the damage, and it doesn't really matter where that SPL comes from.

Possible factors for that being worse with headphones than with, say, sitting close to the air conditioning, could include a few things. Chief among them, most headphones have a particular volume level where they 'wake up', and start sounding good. Sometimes this is far too high of a volume for safe listening.

Listening to audio that is distorted is also more fatigueing, which may increase the damage.

Orthos and other good headphones - whether they be dynamic or electrostatic or whatever - are going to sound 'right' at a lower volume.

Quote:

Originally Posted by scompton /img/forum/go_quote.gif I was in a dry cleaners yesterday. They had CNN on their TV and it was advertising some Time/Life country album. In almost every clip of a singer, they were wearing Fostex v2 headphones.

Yeah, the T20 is a very popular studio can.

 

[wualta]

Quote:

Originally Posted by marcocopopololo I bought the YP-3 because my piano teacher told me they were less harmfull to the ears than others headphones. Does somebody in this thread ever heard about that, or have some opinion about it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ericj Orthos and other good headphones - whether they be dynamic or electrostatic or whatever - are going to sound 'right' at a lower volume.

I'm with ericj on this. Most affordable headphones have big spikes and peaks in their frequency response curves. You turn 'em up so you can hear the bass, but then the spikes, being much louder than the bass, damage your ears. As a bonus, it also sounds awful.

This is related to the "crescendo test" I usually do on a headphone to test for flatness. Crank it up and see at what point it just sounds too damn loud. A flat headphone will let you crank it up and up and it'll just sound better and better. But it will also sound good played very softly. In fact, there's nothing quite like listening to a truly flat transducer at low levels-- the effect, you might say, is magical.

 
Quote:

Originally Posted by scompton In almost every clip of a singer, they were wearing Fostex v2 headphones.

Meanwhile, Cookie Monster eats a nondescript (and possibly unreliable) Sony headphone in this video clip. He tries to eat a U87 mic:

Cookie Monster: A Sweet, Sensual Id, Unfiltered

 

[Faust2D]

I was doing a little comparison of my YH-1 to SR-Lambda. It's incredible how fast both headphones are. The highs, mids, upper bass are also great on both and so it the level of details. Lambda though has better controlled bass. Midrange is superb on YH-1 it's as good as Lambda's midrange and (I hope Stax mafia does not kill me) even a bit smother to the point to being very seductive. It is regrettable however that YH-1 has such as small and narrow soundstage. SR-Lambda overall is a better headphone, but what really gives it it's edge is it's ability to present the recording as a coherent whole and wide expensive soundstage.

When YH-1 were selling of $50 they were an incredible value, however for what they are going now they are still surprisingly, dare I say that, not overpriced. Modded YH-1 sounds very very good and gives a run for the money to very expensive dynamic headphones and even some stats, if I was not such a sounstage freak there would be almost nothing to complain about sound wise.

n.p. Laswell / Brotzmann - "LowLife"

 

[wualta]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faust2D ..Modded YH-1 sounds very very good and gives a run for the money to very expensive dynamic headphones and even some stats, if I was not such a sounstage freak there would be almost nothing to complain about sound wise.

Here, sign this affidavit stating that I didn't pay you to say those things.

 

[Faust2D]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wualta /img/forum/go_quote.gif Here, sign this affidavit stating that I didn't pay you to say those things.

I take PayPal, personal checks and good old cash in unmarked bills

 

[ericj]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wualta /img/forum/go_quote.gif Here, sign this affidavit stating that I didn't pay you to say those things.

hahaha. I'm not sure i significantly improved on what i perceived as accepted modding practice for the HP/YH-1, but the way F2D raves about it, I just don't know.

hey, what's the current recommended damping method for the YH-100? I'm certain what I've got mine at is sub-optimal. And i don't have any good ideas other than removing the glued-on felt and replacing it with a fresh cut circle.