[Anathallo]

Quote:

Could you please quantify the power reserves required for optimal performance of the DT1350, from your experience?

 
 
One point twenty-one jiggawatts!
 
I found the 1350 scales nicely with better amplification, but it wasn't a necessity.

 

[Kremer930]

I don't know if I can quantify it but what I can say is that the bass response seems deeper and punchier when a more powerful amp is used. I love the sound out of my iBasso PB2 and Alo Rx3. Technically, either amp has way too much power for the efficient DT1350. Others may have diffent opinions but this has been my findings.

 

[RapidPulse]

Quote:

I don't know if I can quantify it but what I can say is that the bass response seems deeper and punchier when a more powerful amp is used.

 
I totally agree.  I can't quantify it either...and I haven't done any deliberate A/B testing.  But I much prefer the sound when using an amp (iBasso D6)

 

[anetode]

I don't know if I can quantify it but what I can say is that the bass response seems deeper and punchier when a more powerful amp is used. I love the sound out of my iBasso PB2 and Alo Rx3. Technically, either amp has way too much power for the efficient DT1350. Others may have diffent opinions but this has been my findings.

So it's one of those fuzzy "I know it when I hear it" things, where you're certain that you need a more powerful, more expensive amp and you're fairly certain that a cheap and modestly powerful portable like the clip would be insufficient. Presumably you haven't done any thorough (i.e. blind) testing, and there's no good engineering reason for what you say to be the case, but you're confident in contesting someone's off-the-cuff calculation because it goes contrary to your predisposition.

Well, as you've said, everybody has an opinion and I respect that. I only hope that you recognize why contesting a well-reasoned, spec-supported argument with a simple "there's more to it than that" and then not following through as to why or how this "more" works could make someone scoff at your opinion and go to the extent of questioning you about it in the vain hope that there's some unique knowledge of electromechanical transducers instead of anecdote-supported prejudice.

 

[aamefford]

Quote:

Could you please quantify the power reserves required for optimal performance of the DT1350, from your experience?

 
It sounds killer out of a Pico Slim, which is not a powerful amp.  These are not hard to drive, sound pretty nice out of an iPod touch, and excellent out of at least a Pico Slim and a RoCoo BA (small amp / DAP).  Yeah, I know that is pretty subjective, but perhaps it will help a bit?

 

[Kremer930]

So it's one of those fuzzy "I know it when I hear it" things, where you're certain that you need a more powerful, more expensive amp and you're fairly certain that a cheap and modestly powerful portable like the clip would be insufficient. Presumably you haven't done any thorough (i.e. blind) testing, and there's no good engineering reason for what you say to be the case, but you're confident in contesting someone's off-the-cuff calculation because it goes contrary to your predisposition.
Well, as you've said, everybody has an opinion and I respect that. I only hope that you recognize why contesting a well-reasoned, spec-supported argument with a simple "there's more to it than that" and then not following through as to why or how this "more" works could make someone scoff at your opinion and go to the extent of questioning you about it in the vain hope that there's some unique knowledge of electromechanical transducers instead of anecdote-supported prejudice.

Good point.

But whereas you are suggesting that I have not compared against a lower powered source and have baselessly decided that an expensive amp is required to achieve better sound, I can confirm that I have done AB testing with an amp and without from my iPod classic direct to an amp and also from the classic via CLAS to amp.

You can keep guessing but I will reconfirm my previous comment that IMO an amp helps to fill out the bass, provides depth and impact to the sound of the DT1350.

 

[anetode]

AB testing is good, ABX blind testing is better. Lack of respect for the necessity for the latter is what makes head-fi go round.

The moar power = better bass assertion is ubiquitous in high end audio, yet I've not seen a good explanation or any sort of (proper) testing to support it. Though I do love the 1350s bass, I don't feel that I'm missing anything from the clip. Maybe I should put my money where my mouth is and DBT it vs. a couple of desktop amps. Still I fear that a no better than chance result would be but a flattened nickel on the tracks of head-fi's power-hype locomotive.

 

[shigzeo]

If the more powerful amp has a bass contour built in, then yes, but otherwise, volume, no matter the output source, hinges on voltage. As long as you are not bleeding your ears with very loud tunes, and the headphone doesn't swing too low in Ω or too is too sensitive, you will get the same sound from any amplifier at reasonable listening levels. Only when you pump up the volume intensely or use headphones with too little resistance will you run up against power problems.
 
If you listen to music at 70-80dB from any source that is adequate (and I'm arguing the clip is adequate) you will have no more or no less bass unless the final amp has a contour in it. A massive amp that could power a refrigerator won't make 70-80dB sound better. It won't make 90dB sound any technically 'better' either if the original cheap arse source isn't clipping or running into phase errors. Again, if it has a more pleasing use of distortion to you, or has a contour, or something else, it may sound 'better' to you, but it won't be better than anything else at volumes that the adequate source is supplying with enough powered voltage not to run into phase errors.

 

[Kremer930]

A simple but excessive test to see what the DT1350 are capable of is to try them on a Lyr.

Do your own testing on your own parameters and see what you think.

 

[shigzeo]

Another excessive test is to volume match the Lyr and something else. Assuming the Lyr isn't full of its own flavour so much you'd be surprised. I had an amp that when driving the 64Ω DJ1Pro always put out about 3dB of bass more than it would when driving every other headphone. Don't know why, but it did. That was immediately discernable, but wasn't a show for the amp sounding better. It was actually an artefact. 
 
Same volumes are driven by same voltages. As long as that voltage isn't swamped by not enough power, then the sound will all things considered by the same. Of course, some amps have more distortion. Then they sound different. Some add contours. Again, it isn't one being better at voltages that every amp can supply amply, it is merely a different sound signature.

 

[wdahm519]

Quote:

If the more powerful amp has a bass contour built in, then yes, but otherwise, volume, no matter the output source, hinges on voltage. As long as you are not bleeding your ears with very loud tunes, and the headphone doesn't swing too low in Ω or too is too sensitive, you will get the same sound from any amplifier at reasonable listening levels. Only when you pump up the volume intensely or use headphones with too little resistance will you run up against power problems.
 
If you listen to music at 70-80dB from any source that is adequate (and I'm arguing the clip is adequate) you will have no more or no less bass unless the final amp has a contour in it. A massive amp that could power a refrigerator won't make 70-80dB sound better. It won't make 90dB sound any technically 'better' either if the original cheap arse source isn't clipping or running into phase errors. Again, if it has a more pleasing use of distortion to you, or has a contour, or something else, it may sound 'better' to you, but it won't be better than anything else at volumes that the adequate source is supplying with enough powered voltage not to run into phase errors.

 
Thank you.  Someone who gets it.

 

[mrAdrian]

wrong thread for an amp discussion

 

[wdahm519]

Quote:

wrong thread for an amp discussion

 
Already tried correcting the path of the discussion a page back.  

 

[swarthy]

I think we all agree on next to no difference at moderate levels. Who really cares about those levels when you are testing a headphone or want to listen to the music as it is at a concert?

You seem like you might want to step up. I would if I were you because the bass difference from first an ipod then to a custom Bloat with high-end parts to my Denon 2112ci was beyond enormous for these headphones versus my low ohm Etymotics which almost saw zero increase in bass. I almost think my Bloat is dying or something but it cannot push these like it should because it is a pocket style high-end amp and nothing more.

The Denon 2112ci rolls these things into the ground to the point a kick drum reminds me slightly of an underpowered but fabulous sounding 8 inch subwoofer. I don't know what to say but there is a huge difference between little portable amps amps and real amplifiers. I don't get how people think they can drive 80 ohm phones with a tiny portable amp and get the bass for the highest rated output. You cannot unless that portable is really packing some punch and some dollars imo. But it's all what you need and want. If you are on the run that is what you need. But these function as at home phones just as well.

These are quoted for 129dB and they mostly deliver. An ipod is like feeding these guys steaks through a pinhole. I know what is being talked about is not an ipod but it still isn't what I would call adequate. Nothing but numbers and graphs is going to convince so try something out or listen at normal volumes and be happy. I think once you start pushing that 129dB figure you need a more capable amp.

I am still amazed by these things. It makes all prior purchases in price range seem ridiculous although I still enjoy my Ety's for comfort. Also, I mostly only notice treble problems with hot and compressed music.

And if you want to try and test out some major kick drum bass how about you put on something like the song Spaceship Landing from Kyuss. My god these things can pretty much rattle my teeth lol. That kind of slam should not be coming out of such small speakers. I usually have to creep up in the volume as I am afraid suddenly they will blow--the bass has THAT much presence--but it remains distortion free within limits.

Again, if an ipod got anywhere near that SPL with low frequencies I would be the first to admit it. My Bloat with exceptional caps and DACs and all the other stuff cannot even get close to the Denon. Not even close. The Denon wants better speakers.

You need power for bass. Tiny pocket portable amp does not equal power. End of story. You can say everything sounds the same until your ears turn blue but the main reason people spend big bucks on audio is louder, more control, and more realism. None of those things are solved with a worse, cheaper, and lesser amp PERIOD! The difference in being able to push an 80 ohm pair of headphones and a pair of 30 ohm phones to max is huge with smaller amps.

 

[PhoenixClaw]

I am just throwing this here, hopefully someone can answer my question:
 
Would a replacement headband for the DTxx0 series fit around the headbands of the dt1350? I am thinking of wrapping it around, as I am not really a fan of the dual-headband and the slim foam padding at the top is not as comfortable as i would like.