[zeinharis]

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I was going to say M50s 

 
I'll say any given pair of Grado headphones. They're entirely too popular for the little amount of sound they deliver. Design is nice though.

 
Have you ever listen to Grado headphones such as SR325i, RS1i, GS1k??, I don't think you have judging by your words

 

[Pianist]

Quote:

The inner fidelity graph, the whole treble looks slightly recessed to me. Maybe it's not the darkness that bothers me but something else, I am still a novice head-fier, but something clearly bothers me about their sound. I don't know what it is but they sound poor to me somewhat muffled, unnatural tone, etc. I could simply be realizing I'm a treblehead.
 
I see, I found AKGs to be exactly that compared to Sennheiser, lively and natural. Sennheiser sounds dull and unnatural to me. I simply don't find Senns musical. I want to be engaged in the music but also have enough detail so I can analyze the music. How is the Beyer sound compared to the AKG sound?

 
I understand what bothers you about FA-003/clones. The same things bothered me as well and that's why I eventually sold them. They are not dark, but they lack detail and definition. I felt that there were some very noticeable reflections from the housing which contributed to that muffled feeling you write about. I heard it too and while it wasn't a deal breaker for me, I found better sounding closed headphones in the same price range, such as Shure SRH840 and AKG K271 which sound better damped and more focused than FA-003 to my ears.
 
I like Beyer sound very much too, although I think AKG sound actually fits my tastes best. Beyer's tend to be smoother sounding than Sennheisers and AKGs and remind me more of Orthodynamics in this regard. Their closed DT770s are somewhat grainy and harsh in the treble though, but DT880, 990 and T1 are very fluid sounding headphones. Beyers also tend to be highly detailed with more apparent resolution than Senns and closer to AKGs in this aspect. Beyers are also more laid back/distant and less clear than AKGs, especially in the mids, where even Sennheiser cans sound more aggressive. But the laid back nature doesn't prevent Beyers from retaining a reasonably lively character, probably due to the high amount of detail, accurate tonality and great articulation, but also their often forward and emphasized bass and/or treble. One of the main drawbacks of Beyer sound for many people tends to be their bass and/or treble boost and comparatively recessed mids. Some also complain about a lack of texture and richness in the sound, especially in the mids and a thin, cold character (similar issues as with AKGs). Personally, I often agree that midrange reproduction is not one of Beyers' strengths and that the treble on DT**0 series tends to be somewhat too hot (but not harsh). I disagree with those who think that Beyers are overly colored though, as their tonality sounds very natural to me overall and more neutral (and perhaps more natural) than that of Sennheiser cans overall IMO - the latter being on the warm and thick side of neutral. I think AKGs do tend to be a bit more true to life, especially on acoustic recordings, than headphones from the other two companies with that special sense of clarity in the mids and a fast attack that give an impression of extra liveliness. For electronic, trance, techno and stuff like that, I think Beyer signature works more effectively, while Sennheisers work best as all arounders.

 

[TwoTrack]

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What have you heard better than the hd800 ? Unless you meant  overpriced ...

 
Grado RS-1i, Audeze 2 and 3, PS1000, Stax 009

 

[kman1211]

Quote:

 
I understand what bothers you about FA-003/clones. The same things bothered me as well and that's why I eventually sold them. They are not dark, but they lack detail and definition. I felt that there were some very noticeable reflections from the housing which contributed to that muffled feeling you write about. I heard it too and while it wasn't a deal breaker for me, I found better sounding closed headphones in the same price range, such as Shure SRH840 and AKG K271 which sound better damped and more focused than FA-003 to my ears.
 
I like Beyer sound very much too, although I think AKG sound actually fits my tastes best. Beyer's tend to be smoother sounding than Sennheisers and AKGs and remind me more of Orthodynamics in this regard. Their closed DT770s are somewhat grainy and harsh in the treble though, but DT880, 990 and T1 are very fluid sounding headphones. Beyers also tend to be highly detailed with more apparent resolution than Senns and closer to AKGs in this aspect. Beyers are also more laid back/distant and less clear than AKGs, especially in the mids, where even Sennheiser cans sound more aggressive. But the laid back nature doesn't prevent Beyers from retaining a reasonably lively character, probably due to the high amount of detail, accurate tonality and great articulation, but also their often forward and emphasized bass and/or treble. One of the main drawbacks of Beyer sound for many people tends to be their bass and/or treble boost and comparatively recessed mids. Some also complain about a lack of texture and richness in the sound, especially in the mids and a thin, cold character (similar issues as with AKGs). Personally, I often agree that midrange reproduction is not one of Beyers' strengths and that the treble on DT**0 series tends to be somewhat too hot (but not harsh). I disagree with those who think that Beyers are overly colored though, as their tonality sounds very natural to me overall and more neutral (and perhaps more natural) than that of Sennheiser cans overall IMO - the latter being on the warm and thick side of neutral. I think AKGs do tend to be a bit more true to life, especially on acoustic recordings, than headphones from the other two companies with that special sense of clarity in the mids and a fast attack that give an impression of extra liveliness. For electronic, trance, techno and stuff like that, I think Beyer signature works more effectively, while Sennheisers work best as all arounders.

I see. I guess it is the lack of clarity and definition that really bothers me about them. I honestly regret getting the HM5s instead of the AKG K271 I was also looking at when I was buying a closed pair.
 
Thank you for your explanation. Sounds like Beyers would be good for me too, I listen to a lot of electronica and if it's detailed and has a good tonality I will be happy, sounds like I need to have both an AKG and a Beyer. The current AKGs I have are a little too harsh in the treble, but it made me realize I was seriously missing something from my previous headphones, I can't listen to any of my other headphones anymore. I think I like colder and more detailed headphones. I think I'm going to give Beyer a shot this time around, I'm planning on the DT 990 600 Ohm, although I may opt for an AKG Q701.

 

[devgru]

Quote:

What other forum do you post on? I'd like to visit myself if you wouldn't mind.
 
On topic, I don't find the M50 or the TMA-1 overrated, they're quite good for what they're intended for - Studio and DJ use respectably  Although, I will say the TMA lineup is overpriced by about $100.
 
What I did find overrated was the Audeze LCD-3 when a dealer had one in stock and I demoed it with a high-end Woo amp. Small soundstage and it leaks insanely. It also seemed to have a channel imbalance. The build and sound quality sure doesn't look like $2000. Chipping was also readily apparent from use on the wood cups and the clamping and weight distribution was uneven.
 
I gotta say that Steve Guttenburg must be insane recommending these for studio use. At the price and leakage one might as well buy some high-end speakers and save some money at the same time.

I tried the LCD3s as well and the right driver was noticeably lower output/channel imbalance. I even listened to some mono to identify it. The amp was fine as I listened to other phones through it. They look like they're made in garage workshop, truly DIY in appearance. I listened to the TH900s the same day and was blown away by comparison.
 
Guttenberg never found a headphone he didn't love.

 

[Pianist]

Quote:

I see. I guess it is the lack of clarity and definition that really bothers me about them. I honestly regret getting the HM5s instead of the AKG K271 I was also looking at when I was buying a closed pair.
 
Thank you for your explanation. Sounds like Beyers would be good for me too, I listen to a lot of electronica and if it's detailed and has a good tonality I will be happy, sounds like I need to have both an AKG and a Beyer. The current AKGs I have are a little too harsh in the treble, but it made me realize I was seriously missing something from my previous headphones, I can't listen to any of my other headphones anymore. I think I like colder and more detailed headphones. I think I'm going to give Beyer a shot this time around, I'm planning on the DT 990 600 Ohm, although I may opt for an AKG Q701.

 
I recommend giving both Q701 (or K701/2, almost the same thing) and Beyer DT990 a try - both are great headphones in the own right. For DT990, I suggest the Pro version as it's much cheaper and sounds almost the same as the Premium edition. And although DT990 works better for electronic stuff due to punchier bass and larger, more airy soundstage, try out DT880 when you get the chance too - they are perhaps the most neutral Beyers (although the T1 is arguably more neutral - and far more expensive) and will sound closer to the AKGs in tone (still very different though).

 

[kman1211]

Quote:

 
I recommend giving both Q701 (or K701/2, almost the same thing) and Beyer DT990 a try - both are great headphones in the own right. For DT990, I suggest the Pro version as it's much cheaper and sounds almost the same as the Premium edition. And although DT990 works better for electronic stuff due to punchier bass and larger, more airy soundstage, try out DT880 when you get the chance too - they are perhaps the most neutral Beyers (although the T1 is arguably more neutral - and far more expensive) and will sound closer to the AKGs in tone (still very different though).

 
Yeah, if only I could try them before buying. I can get the DT 990 Premium 600 Ohm for $205, so that's why I'm considering the Premium version. I'm going to be buying either the DT 990s or the Q701s in like a week. I am considering the DT 880s too, if they dropped in price I would really consider them.
 

 

[Balgheet]

Quote:

Which ones have you actually heard?

 
Grado SR325is -_-
I know they're like the highest rated of all the Grado headphones and yet they sounded extremely foggy.

 

[Ishcabible]

Quote:

 
Grado SR325is -_-
I know they're like the highest rated of all the Grado headphones and yet they sounded extremely foggy.

 
...foggy? 
 
Like, I respect that people can hear different things from the same headphone but if you thought the SR325's were foggy, you need to seriously clean your ears because by that measure, every other headphone must sound absolutely tragically veiled as well.

 

[zeinharis]

Quote:

 
Grado SR325is -_-
I know they're like the highest rated of all the Grado headphones and yet they sounded extremely foggy.

 
Foggy??, those words coming out from "I like professional music technology" (profile : About Me)

 
LOL

 

[Rawdawg3234]

HD 650's. hands down the most overrated and overesteemed.
A very boring headphone. I'd only recommend if you enjoy slow music and like to analyze every note.

 

[obobskivich]

I'd only recommend if you enjoy slow music and like to analyze every note.

Ironically this is almost exactly what the HD 580's original marketing material said. Of course framing it in a positive light.

Not sure if I agree or disagree there. I think the HD 595 and their ilk are worse relative to the hype. I think the M50 are probably fairly over-rated but my complaints were more ergonomic than acoustic.

 

[Rawdawg3234]

Ironically this is almost exactly what the HD 580's original marketing material said. Of course framing it in a positive light.
Not sure if I agree or disagree there. I think the HD 595 and their ilk are worse relative to the hype. I think the M50 are probably fairly over-rated but my complaints were more ergonomic than acoustic.

Ah but when I say overrated I mean by a good number of our fellow head-fi members. I did some very extensive research before making the leap into hi fidelity and the most consistent praise I found to be for the hd650s in that price range.
Don't get me wrong they are decent cans and possibly great ones with the right genres and ears.

Lets not even get started on the build quality of them.

 

[obobskivich]

Ah but when I say overrated I mean by a good number of our fellow head-fi members.

Oh I figured. I just thought it was kind of funny that your criticism is almost exactly how Sennheiser used to sell them.

 

[Rawdawg3234]

Oh I figured. I just thought it was kind of funny that your criticism is almost exactly how Sennheiser used to sell them.

That is actually very amusing. I'm just picturing a couple of retired music teachers in tweed jackets being in charge of the project (creating the HD 650s). Ears destroyed from decades of musical endeavors and an overwhelming hatred of "rock and roll" or any "new" music.