[fokta]

DAMN... 174... really grind my gear....

Pure Silver... if the burn in / break in myth was true... would take 200 hours... #itch

 

[fokta]

Thanks, might get 174 for my Andro's he is going to do me a deal for a shorter length again-i listed my Forza hybrid cable for sale, I don't like it.

What are your thoughts on TRRS vs TRS audio benefits? I have just learnt that I would need an adaptor to interchange between my ZX2 and ES100 which is a bit of a bore so wondering if I just stick with a TRS jack.

Regarding TRS vs TRRS, it really need to be in combo either with Source/DAP/DAC also HP/IEM.
IMO, TRRS can make u felt the dynamic in low volume.
DD will get more benefit then BA.
the phrase, more power means more dynamics stands here, be advise, when ur ear alrd get used to it, it will be a one way direction to persude SQ... I know this, because this is my situation now.

too much talk... just try, know it ur self

edit : it doesn't mean TRS is below TRRS, most warm ot tube sig still use TRS... and its the most universal SE Jack... u never go wrong...

 

[hakuzen]

Very informative posts, thanks you so much hakuzen

Just a quick question, the link of the "Au-Ag Alloy 1% Gold 99% Pure Silver" is by meter ? (I mean, 1 quantity = 1 meter ?)
FInished cable price is extremely expensive, maybe thinking to do one by myself soon.

yes, it's price per meter. you'd need 10m to make a 1.2m cable of 8 cores. it's a very good price for that wire, couldn't find it cheaper at taobao (nor the eagle components).

the price of cable 174 is not expensive, if you calculate total cost by adding the plugs, splitter, etc. usual price for a cable using 8 cores of that wire is the double of this.
the time and effort i'd spend trying to diy it is more expensive than the amount they charge.
they made an excellent job with my rhodium plated plugs and soldering work.
if you decide to diy your cable, i wouldn't use rhodium plated plugs (very hard to solder), and i'd take care of tiny strands of the wire (easily broken when preparing the wire or when applying too much heat), and tiny contacts of 2.5mm TRRS jacks (R- contact is particularly small).

i'll might purchase this wire to diy some interconnects, with bigger contacts in plugs (XLR, most).

Thanks, might get 174 for my Andro's he is going to do me a deal for a shorter length again-i listed my Forza hybrid cable for sale, I don't like it.

What are your thoughts on TRRS vs TRS audio benefits? I have just learnt that I would need an adaptor to interchange between my ZX2 and ES100 which is a bit of a bore so wondering if I just stick with a TRS jack.

balanced audio with TRRS connectors (remember you need a balanced source to get balanced sound) provides double power (which isn't needed for most phones), eliminates EMI noise (not needed because length of our phones cables are short), and much decreases crosstalk. i only find useful the latter (although the extra power is also welcome for my planars) in portable gear.
less crosstalk means wider sound stage. this helps to instruments separation and imaging perception. although excess of width can contribute to loose some central image, with blind spots.
you can also use a balanced cable, TRRS ended, with single end (TRS) outputs, by using an adapter, but signal is not balanced in this case (you don't get the mentioned benefits).
if you own and/or plan to use balanced outputs, you'll need TRRS ended cables, which can also be used with single end outputs, thanks to the adapters. there is a section for this kind of adapters in my list of cables

 

[subwoof3r]

yes, it's price per meter. you'd need 10m to make a 1.2m cable of 8 cores. it's a very good price for that wire, couldn't find it cheaper at taobao (nor the eagle components).

the price of cable 174 is not expensive, if you calculate total cost by adding the plugs, splitter, etc. usual price for a cable using 8 cores of that wire is the double of this.
the time and effort i'd spend trying to diy it is more expensive than the amount they charge.

You are right, just checked and it cost more to make one by buying all elements than buying a finished cable directly.
Thanks for the hint about Rhodium plating, didn't know it was harder to solder.
Anyway I don't have much skill yet to make cable by my own, so I think I will buy one soon, just need to choose which will be my next cable for very long time. I'm still hesitating between 170 / 171 / 174 for now, choice is hard!
Still much enjoying my 165 for now.

 

[hakuzen]

You are right, just checked and it cost more to make one by buying all elements than buying a finished cable directly.
Thanks for the hint about Rhodium plating, didn't know it was harder to solder.
Anyway I don't have much skill yet to make cable by my own, so I think I will buy one soon, just need to choose which will be my next cable for very long time. I'm still hesitating between 170 / 171 / 174 for now, choice is hard!
Still much enjoying my 165 for now.

you are welcome, thanks!

i did notice clear difference between 174 (pure silver) and 171 (pure copper).
if you don't need much bass rumble, because your source+phones combo is dark enough, choose 174: better mids and highs (i like bass in 174, punchy and extended, but notes size is smaller, bass is tighter and a bit thinner)
if you need to keep a more organic sub-bass, choose 171 (it also keeps good mids and highs, better than the rest of my cables, silver plated ones included, except 174, of course).
both are a pure bliss. i know i won't find better sq cables.

 

[lukedss]

balanced audio with TRRS connectors (remember you need a balanced source to get balanced sound) provides double power (which isn't needed for most phones), eliminates EMI noise (not needed because length of our phones cables are short), and much decreases crosstalk. i only find useful the latter (although the extra power is also welcome for my planars) in portable gear.
less crosstalk means wider sound stage. this helps to instruments separation and imaging perception. although excess of width can contribute to loose some central image, with blind spots.
you can also use a balanced cable, TRRS ended, with single end (TRS) outputs, by using an adapter, but signal is not balanced in this case (you don't get the mentioned benefits).
if you own and/or plan to use balanced outputs, you'll need TRRS ended cables, which can also be used with single end outputs, thanks to the adapters. there is a section for this kind of adapters in my list of cables[/QUOTE]

Thank-you, i checked your post but could not find mention of 3.5 TRRS to 3.5 TRS adaptor. I checked the AE links for the various ones but the sellers don't seem to carry this. If you have a recommendation I will take that otherwise I could ask Electro Acousti?

 

[Cevisi]

wich trrs 2.5 cabletyp or cablenwill give my kxxs more treble and stage ?

 

[hakuzen]

Thank-you, i checked your post but could not find mention of 3.5 TRRS to 3.5 TRS adaptor. I checked the AE links for the various ones but the sellers don't seem to carry this. If you have a recommendation I will take that otherwise I could ask Electro Acousti?

why would you need a 3.5TRRS to 3.5TRS adapter? balanced cables use 2.5mm TRRS, 4.4mm pentacom, or XLR-4 plug, because they are the most common balanced outputs for phones. 2.5 TRRS is the most used, but it seems than 4.4 plug is being used frequently in new gear (contacts in 2.5 plugs are very small). 3.5mm TRRS (balanced) is rarer.
so you'll get a 2.5mm TRRS or 4.4mm balanced cable, and you'll need a 3.5 TRS to 2.5 TRRS or to 4.4 adapter, in order to be used with single end classic outputs.
my list of 3.5TRS-2.5TRRS(balanced) adapters: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/res...omments-and-links.907998/page-2#post-14985730 (updated it yesterday with some new adds)

wich trrs 2.5 cabletyp or cablenwill give my kxxs more treble and stage ?

cable 174 from electro acousti, without a doubt, but it costs more than your kxxs. you could ask for a 4 cores version of this cable (neotech up-occ silver+gold alloy) to the seller (manufacturer) to check if price is more appropriated for kxxs, because you don't need extreme low resistance cable for a dynamic driver. they also have a neotech frozen up-occ silver plated copper cable, 8 cores, cheaper, and a 4 cores cable of neotech silver+gold alloy mixed with gold plated silver, which surely gives you what you are looking for.

cable 169 from nicehck also fits about treble and stage, but it's mmcx, so you'd need to spend extra $25 for an adapter. silver frozen up-occ plated+copper litz, mixed.

other good options for treble (but not so good for stage) are isn audio S8 or S16 (silver plated copper) from penon, or cable 128 (spc), and others, but these all play in a lower league

 

[lukedss]

why would you need a 3.5TRRS to 3.5TRS adapter?

I want to use my ZX2 cable (3.5TRRS) with Nickle Amp 3.5mm TRS- i figured its rare i can't find one

 

[hakuzen]

I want to use my ZX2 cable (3.5TRRS) with Nickle Amp 3.5mm TRS- i figured its rare i can't find one

but that cable is 3.5TRRS BALANCED or 3.5TRRS single end + mic? (because ZX2 doesn't seem to feature balanced output..)
have you tried that cable, directly plugged (no adapter) into nickle amp?

 

[lukedss]

but that cable is 3.5TRRS BALANCED or 3.5TRRS single end + mic? (because ZX2 doesn't seem to feature balanced output..)
have you tried that cable, directly plugged (no adapter) into nickle amp?

Ah I am learning! So the TRRS reccomendation for the ZX2 is probably just to account for the weak built in amp also seen why people w power hungry heapdhones need to derestrict the volume limiter.

I have not tried putting the TRRS into the Nickle Amp I will research it. I know they said not to use balanced cables but know I understand that to be something completely different.


3 research seconds later.."Input/Output Connectors- 3.5mm TRRS (microphone passthrugh)"

Nice!! Thank-you for guiding me through that learning process!!

So I guess I should have Electro Acousti make my 170 with TRRS jack jor my iSines then, more power the better right?

 

[warriorpoet]

better wire than Gu's.
for 2pins with same wire (but copper), check link of cable 170 in my list (they also have an 8 cores of that wire, but more expensive)

Cable 170 and Gu.Craftsman OCC copper arrived today. I compared both with my previous favorite (Gu.Craftsman 6N Silver).

Gu.Craftsman have updated their jack-side strain relief- it's shorter and MUCH improved.
Gu.Craftsman have updated their splitter- it's in English now. I miss the Kanji, but the change is understandable.

The Electro Acousti Store cable (170) is much thinner and lighter. I can see using this in a professional setting in place of a Plastics One with no adjustments EXCEPT:

The jack is much larger than necessary. It's very clearly a big 'ol chunk of quality, but far oversized for the core size being used. The same goes for the splitter which is almost obscenely large for the size of cable. The cinch flat out does not work (I got the circular wood one).

How do they sound?

Both Gu.Craftsman's pass more signal (3 less steps on the volume for the copper, 5 less for the silver on my Mojo). Both Gu.Craftsman are MUCH more impactful in the bass region, this is especially noticeable in the silver cable. However, this efficiency leads to a smaller perceptible soundstage. The EAS doesn't pass as much signal, but what is there feels more light and balanced, more "true." It could be the thinner wire of the Gu.Craftsman cables forms a less efficient connection per core, or the smaller diameter leads to a more efficient LPF than the AES.

So, if I'm looking to add body or a more intimate space, the GC are my choice, and the silver, in particular, lends a nice feeling of impact.

If I'm looking for a more efficient, light, "flat" feeling, I'm reaching for the AES, despite the niggles. If the AES were available with GC's build quality, I'd take 3. Either way, they're all three great cables, and the GCs in particular feel as if they'd survive a nuclear winter.

 

[warriorpoet]

added new cable 174 to my list: electro acousti 8 cores 28awg neotech up-occ silver(99%)+gold(1%) alloy.
an excellent pure silver cable, at last. it's a pure pleasure for mids and highs. i also like the detailed bass, but some can miss some bass rumble. if so, check the other cable added, 171 (electro acousti 8 cores neotech frozen up-occ copper litz). my copper dream.
nicehck cable 169 (4 cores 28awg copper+silver plated copper mixed) is half way between these two.
171 and 174 both provide very good conductivity while not being too heavy or thick. i'll add some detailed pics in a few minutes.

174. tw upocc Ag99Au1 8c eagle (silver,eagle,MV): 140/151..143/151..142/146..149/158 mΩ..[34g]
parallel capacitance: 400..390 pF
outer diameter: 5.3mm total length: 118/116cm (37/39cm from splitter).
structure: 0.10mm*10(ID:0.36mm/OD:1.4mm/28.15AWG)*8c [2c/signal:25.16AWG]
taiwan neotech up-occ pure silver99% + Au1% alloy. 28awg/core, PE sheath.
eagle true rhodium plated plug; superb quality plug, there is a big difference between these components (jack, divider, slider), and those used in any other chi-cable from my list; the plug costs over $14, while others cost $2-3. good strain reliefs.
mmcx, 2pins, and other terminations, 2.5, 3.5, 4.4mm plugs, available.
flexible wire, but not the most flexible; it's supple, considering its thickness.
some microphonics, then, although i don't notice them when music is playing.
like the other up-occ wires, sound is very clean, reference. darker background, deeper soundstage, which helps to better separation and imaging perception. this also leads to better definition and detail.
compared with the other up-occ wires, i do notice the effect of pure silver.
mids and highs become more layered than in any other wire. soundstage is bigger, deeper, sounds come from many different places, even at dense passages. you can easier locate and separate them from others. the result is a clearer perception of mids and highs. this is the best wire i've tried for mids and highs.
lows are tight, punchy (great hit hats), and detailed. you can follow the bass line easier, fine texture. but you notice less bass rumble, shorter note size, than with up-occ copper.
so this wire is excellent for taming bass in dark combos, or for mid-treble-heads (like me).
if you miss bolder bass and rumble, you better try up-occ copper.
this is my favorite pure silver cable atm.

wire used:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/33046978735.html

links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/33049568537.html


170, 171. tw cryo 7n upocc copper litz (copper,eagle,M), PE sheath.
taiwan neotech frozen 7n up-occ copper litz (independent shield/enamel of every thread in each core); "frozen and strengthened by American cryo parts".
eagle true rhodium plated plug, sandal wood divider and wood/metal chin slider; superb quality plugs, there is a big difference between these components (plug, divider, slider), and those used in any other chi-cable from my list; the plug costs over $14, while others cost $2-3.
strain relief is a bit stiff (soft heat-shrink); this could be improved. edit: this has been improved in cable 171; now it's very good.
mmcx, 2pins, and other terminations, 2.5, 3.5, 4.4mm plugs, available.
flexible wire, but not the most flexible; i expected the 8 cores would be stiffer; it's quite supple for its thickness.
some microphonics, then, although i don't notice them when music is playing.
sound is very clean, reference. darker background, deeper soundstage; definition is so great, that i get the best separation and imaging perception.
litz shielding can give even darker background than wire used in cable 165 (no litz); this is confirmed after first listening; difference is subtle (as usual with cables), but noticeable and welcome.
bass keeps its rumble, while detailed. mids and highs perception is clearer than with other copper cables.
my wish of an 8 cores version cable of this wire has been granted! this is be my favorite copper cable, atm.

171. 8 cores version: 133..143..132..142 mΩ..[30.5g]
parallel capacitance: 407..397 pF
outer diameter: 5mm total length: 122cm (38cm from splitter).
structure: 0.08mm*19(OD:1.08mm/27.3awg)*4c [2c/signal: 24.3AWG]

170. 4 cores version: 252..254..268..290 mΩ..[21.46g]
outer diameter: 4.3mm. total length:125cm (42cm from splitter).
parallel capacitance: 370..350 pF
structure: 0.08mm*19(OD:1.08mm/27.3AWG)*4c

wire used:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/33008255130.html

links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/1000007909452.html

The 4 core is excellent, a couple usability and cosmetic issues aside. You tried the silver/ gold; have you tried the pure 7N(!) silver?

I do have to admit, the copper on 170 is gorgeous, but $10 less for the copper is awful tempting...

 

[hakuzen]

Ah I am learning! So the TRRS reccomendation for the ZX2 is probably just to account for the weak built in amp also seen why people w power hungry heapdhones need to derestrict the volume limiter.

I have not tried putting the TRRS into the Nickle Amp I will research it. I know they said not to use balanced cables but know I understand that to be something completely different.


3 research seconds later.."Input/Output Connectors- 3.5mm TRRS (microphone passthrugh)"

Nice!! Thank-you for guiding me through that learning process!!

So I guess I should have Electro Acousti make my 170 with TRRS jack jor my iSines then, more power the better right?

iems usually don't need much power. having more power when you aren't going to use it means nothing (you'd blow up your ears, and possibly fry your iems, when applying much volume).
i don't know about iSine, though. guess that one needs some respectable juice.
anyway, to get double power (double voltage = +6dB) you need the source features balanced amplifying. please remember this. if you don't own it, but plan to get one, you can purchase the balanced TRRS cable because you'll need it when using a balanced output, and meanwhile, you can use it in single end outputs by using an adapter (but in this case, single end output, you don't get extra power, nor crosstalk decrease; the cable does nothing).

Cable 170 and Gu.Craftsman OCC copper arrived today. I compared both with my previous favorite (Gu.Craftsman 6N Silver).

Gu.Craftsman have updated their jack-side strain relief- it's shorter and MUCH improved.
Gu.Craftsman have updated their splitter- it's in English now. I miss the Kanji, but the change is understandable.

The Electro Acousti Store cable (170) is much thinner and lighter. I can see using this in a professional setting in place of a Plastics One with no adjustments EXCEPT:

The jack is much larger than necessary. It's very clearly a big 'ol chunk of quality, but far oversized for the core size being used. The same goes for the splitter which is almost obscenely large for the size of cable. The cinch flat out does not work (I got the circular wood one).

How do they sound?

Both Gu.Craftsman's pass more signal (3 less steps on the volume for the copper, 5 less for the silver on my Mojo). Both Gu.Craftsman are MUCH more impactful in the bass region, this is especially noticeable in the silver cable. However, this efficiency leads to a smaller perceptible soundstage. The EAS doesn't pass as much signal, but what is there feels more light and balanced, more "true." It could be the thinner wire of the Gu.Craftsman cables forms a less efficient connection per core, or the smaller diameter leads to a more efficient LPF than the AES.

So, if I'm looking to add body or a more intimate space, the GC are my choice, and the silver, in particular, lends a nice feeling of impact.

If I'm looking for a more efficient, light, "flat" feeling, I'm reaching for the AES, despite the niggles. If the AES were available with GC's build quality, I'd take 3. Either way, they're all three great cables, and the GCs in particular feel as if they'd survive a nuclear winter.

thanks for your impressions about cables i adore!
nice to see Gu has improved the plug strain relief.
Gu.Craftsman cables (133 in my list) have lower resistance than electro acousti's cable 170, because of their total section. they should be more efficient, but this wouldn't mean much difference in volume. you probably have to raise the volume to feel the bass you like. it's interesting what you mention about the relation of bass and thickness of wire; the strands have similar diameter in both cables (0.08mm), but total section is bigger in GU cables. when comparing 170 and 171 (8 cores), my impression was of 171 having slightly more bass, but can't confirm it, it might was bias or not well matched volume.
more people report that up-occ copper cables provide tighter bass than other copper wires. and i say up-occ copper wire is nearer to silver attributes than other copper wires. i personally like this.

edit: forgot to tell.. yea 4 cores cable is thin for the chin slider (wood one also here). i'll might add a silicone o-ring to get it tighter, because i much use the slider.
while 8 cores slider (metal one) is enough tight, it's even a bit difficult to move

The 4 core is excellent, a couple usability and cosmetic issues aside. You tried the silver/ gold; have you tried the pure 7N(!) silver?

I do have to admit, the copper on 170 is gorgeous, but $10 less for the copper is awful tempting...

nope, cable 174 is my first confirmed pure silver one (well, with a hint of gold). was waiting for 8 cores of frozen up-occ silver plated copper litz, but when i saw the chance to try neotech silver+gold alloy cable (had heard very good impressions of this wire), didn't doubt of trying it. electro acousti has added some more cables to their stock recently. i'd try all based on neotech wires

 

[fokta]

Take a hit on 174 cable custom (4 core only) price reduce to USD 110.
We will see how it goes....