Knowledge Zenith (KZ) impressions thread
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hydroid

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What was the end result of your swap experiment?

What was the biggest issue (DD size)?

I've considered doing a few myself, but before ordering multiple ZS3's I'd like to hear your thoughts on the pros and cons you've experienced.

No rush and thanks.
Hi @DocHoliday been too busy lately to provide an update on this. Unfortunately, the ZST driver can't fit inside the ZS3 shell. I gave up trying for now and will just wait for the ZS10 release. Hill Audio posted a teaser on IG yesterday that it may come out soon..
zs10.png
 
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CoiL

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CoiL

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Adide

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Pardon me to jump in but I see things a bit differently in some points. Not an expert, just my opinion.

The quad-driver ZS5 has a rather low impedance that starts climbing beyond 1 KHz. This means that, if you increase the output impedance of your player, you get increased mids and treble on your frequency response curve.
If you don't break the 1/8 impedance ratio I think nothing will happen while you increase source output impedance.
If by increase you mean breaking the 1/8 impedance matching ratio I think that the bass and mids will be susceptible to impedance mismatching effects (below) rather than detect an increase in mids and treble.

3. A single-driver earphone has a flat impedance across the frequency spectrum and the player's output impedance does not influence the frequency response curve.
Pretty sure that's not accurate. Again, if by increase you meant breaking the 1/8 rule I think impedance mismatch can still produce some of these efects in various proportions and intensities due to reduced damping factor: roll-offs and tonality alteration towards source impedance response curve (for instance if the source has an L-shaped impedance response curve the phones will get darker and so on). Also, apart from FR curve alteration - clipping (reduced dynamic range) and distortion can occur in severe cases of impedance mismatch.

Cheers.

Edit: also, afaik cable impedance counts towards source impedance so have that in mind as effects on tonality (that can be measured) can vary from none to many depending on all parties involved impedance and the breaking or honoring of 1/8 rule. Not talking about non-measurable effects (resolution, dynamics, soundstage, imaging etc.) - that's everyone's guess.
 
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CoiL

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This means that, if you increase the output impedance of your player, you get increased mids and treble on your frequency response curve.
A single-driver earphone has a flat impedance across the frequency spectrum and the player's output impedance does not influence the frequency response curve.
I`m not going to argue about it but I will just say that I also don`t wholy agree with those points. I`m mainly supporting on my practical experience rather than theoretical.
It`s not only about FR curve but also about physical "juice". ZS5v1 has around 3,7 Ohm impedance (without cable) which is result of drivers connected in parallel without any crossover.
That means ZS5v1 current draw per channel/drivers will be very high and not only about output voltage. That`s why also low output impedance and amping plays large role about resulting perceived sound. if source/amping output current is too low, it affects some/all drivers by below their optimal working point, resulting different perceived FR as intended per individual driver.
That`s why there are so contraverse opinions about ZS5v1 and I`ve read some comments where ppl amping them properly with low source output impedance result comments like "where from those mids & details/punchyness pooped out? O_o".
It`s like driving mesaboogie cabinet (2Ohm low impedance drivers) with PC PSU... If You know what I mean, joke, lol. Amp properly and with first bass note You pull - Your inner organs turn around, instant drooling and hard-on ;D
 
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Wiljen

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Pardon me to jump in but I see things a bit differently in some points. Not an expert, just my opinion.

Pretty sure that's not accurate. Again, if by increase you meant breaking the 1/8 rule I think impedance mismatch can still produce some of these efects in various proportions and intensities due to reduced damping factor: roll-offs and tonality alteration towards source impedance response curve (for instance if the source has an L-shaped impedance response curve the phones will get darker and so on). Also, apart from FR curve alteration - clipping (reduced dynamic range) and distortion can occur in severe cases of impedance mismatch.

Actually Otto Motor's comment is correct but is being misinterpreted. A single driver's frequency response graph will not change based on the output impedance of the player based on the concept that all frequencies are equally effected by the shift. (A rising tide lifts all boats). That much is at least usually true until you get into artifact and the 1/8 rule. The misinterpretation is that his comment was meant to say that a single driver cannot have different impedances at different frequencies which is obviously untrue.
 
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mrmoto050

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Actually Otto Motor's comment is correct but is being misinterpreted. A single driver's frequency response graph will not change based on the output impedance of the player based on the concept that all frequencies are equally effected by the shift. (A rising tide lifts all boats). That much is at least usually true until you get into artifact and the 1/8 rule. The misinterpretation is that his comment was meant to say that a single driver cannot have different impedances at different frequencies which is obviously untrue.
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hakuzen

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Pardon me to jump in but I see things a bit differently in some points. Not an expert, just my opinion.



If you don't break the 1/8 impedance ratio I think nothing will happen while you increase source output impedance.
If by increase you mean breaking the 1/8 impedance matching ratio I think that the bass and mids will be susceptible to impedance mismatching effects (below) rather than detect an increase in mids and treble.



Pretty sure that's not accurate. Again, if by increase you meant breaking the 1/8 rule I think impedance mismatch can still produce some of these efects in various proportions and intensities due to reduced damping factor: roll-offs and tonality alteration towards source impedance response curve (for instance if the source has an L-shaped impedance response curve the phones will get darker and so on). Also, apart from FR curve alteration - clipping (reduced dynamic range) and distortion can occur in severe cases of impedance mismatch.

Cheers.

Edit: also, afaik cable impedance counts towards source impedance so have that in mind as effects on tonality (that can be measured) can vary from none to many depending on all parties involved impedance and the breaking or honoring of 1/8 rule. Not talking about non-measurable effects (resolution, dynamics, soundstage, imaging etc.) - that's everyone's guess.
this is right for dynamic drivers, because their impedance curve uses to be flat across the frequency spectrum.
but the typical impedance curve of balanced armature drivers is not flat, so the 1/8 rule should be even more restrictive to avoid tonal alterations, specially in highs.
you could check lot of samples of this in @HiFiChris ' amazing thread:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...urements-in-post-3-tutorial-in-post-2.800208/

or here: http://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/
they measure the possible different frequency response of sources when using dynamic vs BA drivers, depending on source impedance; for example, check the difference here: http://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/amp/ihifi-770c.php , output impedance >10Ω. minimal tonal alterations for dynamic drivers, but about 5dB variation at 10kHz for BAs.

if you want to check particular KZs ZS5v1 and ZS6 tonal alterations due to their particular impedance curves:
zs5 v1 vs zs6 impedance curve: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1546#post-13774060
tonal alteration when using higher output impedance sources: [URL='https://www.head-fi.org/threads/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread.698148/page-1553#post-13777787']https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1553#post-13777787[/URL]
and about clipping and distortion of weak sources when pairing to zs5v1, due to zs5v1 extremely low impedance (and not so high sensitivity):
zs5 source dependency: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1553#post-13777918
zs5 drive: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1630#post-13819958
 
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Otto Motor

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That`s why there are so contraverse opinions about ZS5v1 and I`ve read some comments where ppl amping them properly with low source output impedance result comments like "where from those mids & details/punchyness pooped out? O_o".
/QUOTE]
Should my buddy measure the ZS5 v1. with different output sources in order to generate different frequency response curves?
Should my buddy measure the ZS5 v1. with different output impedance sources in order to generate different frequency response curves?
 
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hakuzen

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Should my buddy measure the ZS5 v1. with different output impedance sources in order to generate different frequency response curves?
sure your buddy would do a perfect job about that.
pity you don't appreciate my fr measurements of zs5v1 with 3 different sources (the link is immediately above your post): <1Ω, <1Ω+coupling caps, 15Ω (near +5dB harsher @ 11kHz).
zs5 source dependency: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1553#post-13777918
i'm tired of re-posting these measurements, and it's even stupid to do it.. people read what they want to read..
 
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well I got my red kz zs6 how long do I need to burn them in anyone have some suggestion ?... btw they sound clear sharp nice mids ... but the bass is lacking I dont know if its a fit problem because of the shape of kz zs6.. kz es3 has more bass then kz zs6 ...
 
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