[465176]

A question for @Rob Watts if I may. I’m very tempted to order a TT2, but I do have a query before I decide to order. I watch all my films, Netflix etc. with the Hugo DAC connected via optical to the TV (I’m somewhat old school and watch films in stereo only, through the HiFi). So it’s important to me that there’s no obvious latency issues. I seem to be particularly sensitive to even the slightest hint of any delay, or dialogue appearing too soon.

Unfortunately my Samsung TV and 4K BR player only offer positive sync adjustments, not negative (a very short-sighted & stupid omission!). So I’d really need some kind of confirmation about whether introducing the TT2 (with its extra taps & processing power) would likely result in lip sync issues I couldn’t correct? Unfortunately buying a new TV and player is not on the cards.

Thank you,

John

 

[RustyGates]

No. I assumed the TT 2 was programmed to automatically volume-match when switching between the two. There was no clear difference in volume to my ears.

This phenomena has always had me stumped for quite a while now: Why is it when I listen to audio equipment at higher gain, the music has greater slam, weighty and perceivably more engaging? And this is at equivalent SPL levels out of the headphones. I've noticed this too on my TT 2, but is applicable with any bit of kit. I well understand the concept of gain, but this is something I can never get my head around...

 

[RustyGates]

*Accidental Post*

 

[jarnopp]

In a very early post in the TT2 thread Rob Watts suggested that these adapters would work to banana speaker cables, not sure if he used them and if they are good but may be of interest to try? https://www.flashbacksales.co.uk/ac...4mm-in-line-sockets-cable-set-372.html#SID=81

Thanks! That looks like it might offer a higher quality solution.

 

[Rob Watts]

Interesting. I don’t recall any reference to auto matching levels between gain. @Rob Watts ?

Edit: I’ve just read the manual and have not read anything about auto volume correction between gain modes. The only reason I’d like to know is that the sound difference you report between low and high gain could easily be attributed to louder volume. It just doesn’t make sense that high gain would produce a different sound when volume matched given that low gain would be more than enough for the headphones you listed (TT2 is more than 3x the DAVE in low gain).

I am at Heathrow taking a flight out this morning - so I can't confirm absolutely - but the volume display will change automatically, (so 0H would then become -9L as low gain is 9 dB lower) so you would then need to manually increase the volume to 0L. The 0L would be volume matched to 0H. I thought it would be counter intuitive to change the gain control, and to auto change the volume as well; but the display will tell you the absolute level. Note that with a 0dBFS input +7H (high gain) it will clip; at -2L it will also clip.

A question for @Rob Watts if I may. I’m very tempted to order a TT2, but I do have a query before I decide to order. I watch all my films, Netflix etc. with the Hugo DAC connected via optical to the TV (I’m somewhat old school and watch films in stereo only, through the HiFi). So it’s important to me that there’s no obvious latency issues. I seem to be particularly sensitive to even the slightest hint of any delay, or dialogue appearing too soon.

Unfortunately my Samsung TV and 4K BR player only offer positive sync adjustments, not negative (a very short-sighted & stupid omission!). So I’d really need some kind of confirmation about whether introducing the TT2 (with its extra taps & processing power) would likely result in lip sync issues I couldn’t correct? Unfortunately buying a new TV and player is not on the cards.

Thank you,

John

Me too - I much prefer stereo on my home theatre.

Hugo 1 had a delay of 34 ms; TT2 is 63 mS; modern TV's and projectors have at least a one or two of frames of delay, so in my experience you will be OK. If the TV has frame interpolation, turn that feature on, as this will add more video delay.

 

[x RELIC x]

I am at Heathrow taking a flight out this morning - so I can't confirm absolutely - but the volume display will change automatically, (so 0H would then become -9L as low gain is 9 dB lower) so you would then need to manually increase the volume to 0L. The 0L would be volume matched to 0H. I thought it would be counter intuitive to change the gain control, and to auto change the volume as well; but the display will tell you the absolute level. Note that with a 0dBFS input +7H (high gain) it will clip; at -2L it will also clip.

Thanks Rob! So, for those comparing low vs high gain there is a 9dB difference. Impressions would require the two gains to be matched before taking notes (I suspect no real audible difference after matching levels).

 

[musickid]

As my beloved oppo pm1 is a planar that is easy to drive i'm wondering whether i should call it a day with h2/hms and just get on with enjoying the music and whether pursuing a tt2 is not something i need to do. My silver hugo 2 looks so damn good lit up with different colours at dawn while i await my mscaler to arrive back from it's infra red fix tomorrow. Listening to kenny g brazilian nights minus hms is so damn good anyway. With hms added have i achieved my goal of acquiring tools that enable me to fully enjoy a wide catalogue of digital music streams. I don't need a collection of headphones. I also wonder what my amphenol rf cables will add to the mix. With a tt2 i may then need more headphones. If one is on a tight budget when does one pull out of what is potentially an endless quest. By appreciating both the tt2 and h2 as separate entities and not competing rivals things appear different. Had i purchased difficult to drive planars maybe things would be different too. Maybe in the morning my tt2 quest will be the one to aim for by xmas or maybe not.

 

[paul2qute]

I've only just realised this morning after waking up that I didn't even listen to any of the hi-fi gear,didn't listen to the hugo TT 2 the m scaler,the blu 2 and Dave was on low downstairs but never really paid that much attention how strange, the only way I can describe it is say the Mrs was in clothes shop and Tom Hardy walks in. .I did look at the M scaler and Hugo TT 2 and thought they would be bigger, gorgeous looking though, now in the past I've always thought the hugo style was nicer than the choral design, oh my god I couldn't believe the look of Dave and blu 2 in the flesh, pure testosterone they looked massive and so solid, even the Mrs was really impressed with the look, she said why didn't you buy them instead lol,I told her the price and she dragged me out the room.Only two famous ppl I've ever wanted to meet, Mike Tyson and Rob Watts so my dreams have been met

 

[STR-1]

I am at Heathrow taking a flight out this morning - so I can't confirm absolutely - but the volume display will change automatically, (so 0H would then become -9L as low gain is 9 dB lower) so you would then need to manually increase the volume to 0L. The 0L would be volume matched to 0H. I thought it would be counter intuitive to change the gain control, and to auto change the volume as well; but the display will tell you the absolute level. Note that with a 0dBFS input +7H (high gain) it will clip; at -2L it will also clip.

Thanks Rob! So, for those comparing low vs high gain there is a 9dB difference. Impressions would require the two gains to be matched before taking notes (I suspect no real audible difference after matching levels).

I have listened again carefully using a Beethoven piano sonata. I played first on low gain with volume showing -30L. I then switched to high gain with volume now showing -21H. There was very little if any perceived change in volume. The 20-second delay for reset makes rapid a/b comparisons impossible. Just as I reported before, the sound from high gain was more solid, more authorative, more sure-footed. Returning to low gain, I then increased volume to -21L, and it was now clearly much louder than high gain at -21H but still lacking the extra authority and solidity of the high gain setting.

So there it is. I do not have the technical knowledge to explain it. Is “gain” the correct term to be using here? I have read that the term can be ambiguous? I use it because the manual uses it.

I would also say, from what I have read, that those DAVE owners who felt a separate headphone amp was needed to get the best out of their difficult to drive headphones were often not looking for more volume (my DAVE can drive my LCD-4 to painfully loud volume) just more power to lend more weight and authority to their music. I had assumed it was this that Rob Watts was aiming to address with the increased power output, not volume. Is “current” the thing we are talking about here? I don’t know and frankly I don’t care. I’m content to hear the difference between the two “gain” settings and to be able to choose the one I prefer.

 

[465176]

Me too - I much prefer stereo on my home theatre.

Hugo 1 had a delay of 34 ms; TT2 is 63 mS; modern TV's and projectors have at least a one or two of frames of delay, so in my experience you will be OK. If the TV has frame interpolation, turn that feature on, as this will add more video delay.

Appreciate you taking the time to respond Rob, thank you. Sounds like it’ll be fine in my setup then.

I just have to make the decision now whether to go for the TT2 on its own, or keep my H2 and go the M-Scaler route instead. Unfortunately can only afford to go in one direction. Purely concerned with the finest audio quality. Decisions decisions!

 

[x RELIC x]

I have listened again carefully using a Beethoven piano sonata. I played first on low gain with volume showing -30L. I then switched to high gain with volume now showing -21H. There was very little if any perceived change in volume. The 20-second delay for reset makes rapid a/b comparisons impossible. Just as I reported before, the sound from high gain was more solid, more authorative, more sure-footed. Returning to low gain, I then increased volume to -21L, and it was now clearly much louder than high gain at -21H but still lacking the extra authority and solidity of the high gain setting.

So there it is. I do not have the technical knowledge to explain it. Is “gain” the correct term to be using here, a term I have read that can be ambiguous? I use it because the manual describes it as such.

I would also say, from what I have read, that those DAVE owners who felt a separate headphone amp was needed to get the best out of their difficult to drive headphones were often not looking for more volume (my DAVE can drive my LCD-4 to painfully loud volume) just more power to lend more weight and authority to their music. Is “current” the thing we are talking about here? I don’t know and frankly I don’t care. I’m content to hear the difference between the two “gain” settings and to be able to choose the one I prefer.

Interesting observations, and if you prefer high gain and report perceived differences then that’s fine with me. Thank you for matching the volume as that’s much more meaningful for impressions. To be honest, I’m surprised there is a perceived difference when the output is matched. I’m not being argumentative here but the improvements you listed are usually what people report from an increase in volume. Rob, and your volume display, have confirmed there is a 9dB difference yet you didn’t actually notice a change in volume initially... that’s what I find interesting. While human hearing can notice 0.5-1dB difference in loudness (sometimes less) it usually isn’t easily reported as louder until a 3dB difference (twice as much power required). Most people report that a 10dB increase is perceived as twice as loud (this is all based off of various human hearing studies).

Regarding the DAVE and a seperate powerful amp, I have both and I notice a change in tonality and character but that change is across all my transducers from IEMs to dynamic and planar headphones. Could it be described as more ‘powerful’? Sure. Does my amp actually use all that power for my headphones? No. Is it a pain to use with very little volume control with my easiest to drive headphones/IEMs? Yes. I don’t see how the DAVE and a seperate amp is relevant to the TT2’s gain setting. I know what you’re getting at but I was only curious about the TT2’s gain differences, as you aren’t testing different components here to muddy up the knowledge of where the change is coming from (tonality, implementation, synergy, etc.).

Regardless, thank you again for matching the volume and then reporting back. Enjoy the music.

 

[paul2qute]

What I took with me from that day is how a saxophone to a trumpet sounds, one is sharp and the other warm, one review I read about the hugo 2 review was that he thought it was too bright, now if a trumpet sounds sharp then the dac should show that, depth of field was another interesting subject really interesting, depth of field from a hi-fi system can only sound like its 2 feet away and not say a hundred feet away like in concert hall, also to do with distortion the hugo TT 2 apart from Dave has the lowest distortion of any dac including the Dcs vivaldi which is 30 grand

 

[STR-1]

@x RELIC x

No worries. Perhaps Rob can shed some light on this when he gets back from his travels and has the time.

I have edited the final para in my previous post to make clearer why I mentioned separate headphone amps. One of the problems with slow one-finger typing on my iPad is that my typing (and frequent corrections) can’t keep up with the train of thought in my head.

 

[Jawed]

Is the "high gain" mode in TT 2 the normal mode that corresponds with say DAVE or Hugo 2?

My understanding is that the "low gain" mode is for people who use IEMs that have extremely high sensitivity.

So, presumably, the low gain mode is electrically different from the normal mode seen with other Chord DACs.

Is that right?

 

[Whazzzup]

Normal mode is not normal?