[Giogio]

@kayandjohn, definitely amusing!
My very first reviews were also with these kind of votes, like the one for the Bose Soundlink On Ear.
 
Cool.
I personally am not sure that the Momentum are the right choice, but, let me ask you something before, which it is not completely clear to me although you already explained it once: what do you exactly call transparency? And how do you relate it to sound signature (cold, warm) soundstage, and detail.
 
About the bassiness, do you mean out of the box, or the potential one (with EQ)?
I wish I could try a Grado. I have to find out if a shop here has them.

 

[ruthieandjohn]

  You (and @kayandjohn, and whoever want to see me testing the Parrot) can write her already. I have written her a week ago. She answered asking me where I am located, I answered back, and I am still waiting for a feedback. Maybe some fanboys queries would encourage them.

OK... here is a copy of my request email to her...
 

Dear Ms. Loury,
 
I am a long-time Parrot Zik fan and advocate, and I would like to add my voice to the request you have already received from a gentleman who is seeking a review copy of the Parrot Zik 2.0 for his large thread "Huge Comparison of [Almost] All The Best Blue Tooth Headphones" on head-fi.org.
 
Nearly every bluetooth headphone is represented in that thread.  I have given my own efforts to review both my Parrot Zik original and my recently-purchased Parrot Zik 2.0, but I do not have the vast number of other Bluetooth headphones that he has to which to compare it.
 
I have been a long-time follower of the Parrot Zik headphone, immediately noting its award at the Consumer Electronics Show in January, 2012 and purchasing one of the very first available in August, 2012.  I wrote one of the first reviews of it (5 stars) on amazon.com, here:  http://www.amazon.com/gp/review/R31698WQ7SNYX4/ref=cm_cr_pr_rvw_ttl?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B0081TH24O
 
I recently purchased the Parrot Zik. 2.0 and performed a comparative review of it to the Parrot Zik Original and the Jaybird BlueBudsX (an in-ear bluetooth, which was the only one I had in addition to the Parrots), here:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/746519/huge-comparison-of-almost-all-the-best-bluetooth-headphones-post-your-own-comparisons-here/270#post_11365828
 
The above-mentioned thread of 524 posts has had 40,000 views since beginning in December, 2014.  It guides many folks in their selection of upper-end Bluetooth headphones, and so far it is only my own review that treats the Parrot Zik .  I hope you can accommodate the review request of its originator ("giogio" is his screen name on that thread) for a review pair of Parrot Zik 2.0s.
 
Thank you.
 
John 

 

[n00b2]

Originally Posted by Giogio /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
(did you just notice that I have multiquoted you? But it is slow, I have to cut the new part of your post, past it under my partial answer, select it, and quote it).
Maybe Sennheiser was encouraged because they had already experience with the other wireless, RS Series.
My way of seeing it is: the sound is made by both hardware and software. Now, it is true that the BT still degrades the signal respect to cable, although I have read some people declaring that it is not a limit of BT but of how it is implemented. BUT, if you take a very good Planar Magnetic headphone and plug a BT receiver in them, you surely have a much better sound than any existing BT Headphone. Just, with the strange receiver protruding.
So, if they are able to make such good hardware, what's so bad if they just implement a BT chip in the headphone?
I mean, it seems to me like an arrogant snobbism. They can make both things and make people happy.
It is not like making crappy headphones for 50 USD to please more people, it is making High End BT Headphones to please the audiophiles who need the freedom of wireless.
It is really stupid that they don't do it.

 
I did indeed. It's not super fast but it is the quickest way.
 
There is definitely a level of snobbyness involved. Some of these companies will not want to be seen associating with lovers of wireless headphones let alone make one themselves. But it's not as simple as just tacking on a bt receiver to any high end headphones and making them high end bluetooth headphones. If it was it would have been done by now. The most obvious reason is driving the headphones. A good planar magnetic headphone like the Audeze LCD3 will not drive well unless you have a really good amp. Try them out of a portable device and they will sound like crap. Similarly, simply sticking in a bt chip without a really good internal dac will make the headphones sound like crap. Even if there was no signal loss over bluetooth, without a high quality dac at best it would like listening to the LCD3 through a phone. No one will pay LCD3 prices for that.
 
Then you have the implementation of bluetooth itself. Not all bluetooth is the same and the way it is implemented does have a significant impact on the sound quality, just like not all SBC is the same and it isn't always worse than aptx. To implement a good bluetooth chip into the headphones that doesn't degrade the sound quality too badly while keeping battery life decent would be nigh on impossible for really high end headphones (and no doubt make them incredibly heavy if it could be done). I highly doubt that bluetooth in its current form is anywhere near capable to play sounds similar to what a well driven high end headphone can produce. May get there in the future though. Bluetooth audio is improving rapidly and no one would have dreamed that bluetooth headphones could sound as good as the Symhony 1 or Momentum Wireless 5 years ago.
 
Lastly as much as I am disappointed by this there just doesn't seem to be the market there for it. Bluetooth is seen as something mainly for portable devices and not for listening to good quality audio at home. Portable means small or foldable and closed back to most. Even in this thread many people seem to have ruled out the Symphony 1 due to its size. I would really like a proper high end open back bluetooth headphones for when I'm working round the house or to take with me when I travel for work. Heck even just for watching a movie without worrying about the cable would be good too but there doesn't seem to be a lot of people interested in that. The RS 220 was the best compromise for me in that regard: not portable at all but at least I can get decent wireless at home, if it wasn't for the constant drop out issues.

 

[Giogio]

@n00b2 hmmm. one can see that I do not have experience with those kind of wired cans which require amp.
I had not thought about it. I suppose you are righ.
Pity. But still, I think they can do something better than what other companies do, if they do something BT.
I mean, it will not be like their big Planar, it must not necessarily be planar either, but it will surely be amazing as a BT Headphone...
 
Well. We must wait.
In the while, let's try these new babies
 
Did you ever try a Denon Headphone? What do we have to expect as Sound Signature?

 

[n00b2]

  @n00b2 hmmm. one can see that I do not have experience with those kind of wired cans which require amp.
I had not thought about it. I suppose you are righ.
Pity. But still, I think they can do something better than what other companies do, if they do something BT.
I mean, it will not be like their big Planar, it must not necessarily be planar either, but it will surely be amazing as a BT Headphone...
 
Well. We must wait.
In the while, let's try these new babies
 
Did you ever try a Denon Headphone? What do we have to expect as Sound Signature?

Yes you seem to be an expert of wireless but not that well versed in wired headphones. If someone just wants to add a simple bt chip without all the fancy internal circuitry it will be a lot easier to add bluetooth to something that doesn't need an amp (think low ohms). The Ultrasone Edition 8 or Fostex TH-900 or Beyerdynamic T5p are some good examples in the really high end (>$1000) range. You could try chasing those companies for a comment if you wish. I'm still skeptical as to whether one of those detachable bluetooth connectors will really work though and not destroy sound quality. Past experience with devices designed to turn home theatre speaker into wireless speakers pretty much showed that sound quality dropped dramitically when the quality of the speakers went up to audiophile level.
 
I've listened to a few Denon's both in ear and over ear and found them to be far too bass heavy for my tastes. Seems to be a standard signature for Denon though again not as bass heavy as proper basshead cans.

 

[ruthieandjohn]

@kayandjohn
, definitely amusing!
My very first reviews were also with these kind of votes, like the one for the Bose Soundlink On Ear.

Cool.
I personally am not sure that the Momentum are the right choice, but, let me ask you something before, which it is not completely clear to me although you already explained it once: what do you exactly call transparency? And how do you relate it to sound signature (cold, warm) soundstage, and detail.

About the bassiness, do you mean out of the box, or the potential one (with EQ)?
I wish I could try a Grado. I have to find out if a shop here has them.

For me, transparency is the freedom of sound from any intervening barriers, most usually a cloth or padding. Does it seem like you are in the same room as the musicians, or are you listening around a corner or through a speaker cloth?

For some others, transparency means spectral flatness... a lack of color in the form of peaks at varous points (e.g. forward mids, shrill trebles, booming bass).

For anything but the Parrot Zik, where EQ is built into the headphone by way of the app, I always mean without EQ.

I got a lot of discussion at me when I stated that Grado headphones, even the $79 SR60, were more transparent than the ($1600) Sennheiser HD 800. For me, the Grados are clearly more in line with the first definition than even the best Sennheiser (that's why I love them!). But for others, they thought I was saying that the Grados were more spectrally flat than the Sennheisers, which is definitely wrong... Grados are known for spectral coloration, or humps that color and excite the sound, while Sennheiser HD 800s are known for spectral accuracy.

@giogio what is your hesitation about the Momentum's suitability? Is it related to your earlier comment that the Definitive Technology Symphony 1 might be better than the Momentum for classical music because of the Momentum's bassiness?

 

[MummysPride]

He just talks nosense and gives no info.
Seriously, he talked SIX minutes only of how wonderful the carrying case is, how many jlab logos are there, how the USB cable is to charge the headphones (no, really? Thanks for the info!), how comfy they are (like if what is comfy to him must be comfy to everybody), and only few seconds of the sound, saying that they accentuate bass and highs, and have a warm signature. How can they have a warm signature if they accentuate bass and highs?
And he even say that the Bluetooth 4 sounds better than the old versions, which is ridiculous. He doesn't even mention the APTX. Probably he doesn't even know what that is.

So, @orionschmidt, why is so strange for you that I don't like that "review"?
I know that my post was not the best way to introduce myself and you must think I'm an *******, but I just appreciate what you guys do here and that was my strange way to tell you thanks for this thread.

 

[ruthieandjohn]

Bluetooth fans... as I posted in the Deals thread that buysonic.com has black Parrot Zik 2.0 Bluetooth for $299 (normally $399) and black Sennheiser Momentum Over Ear Bluetooth M2 AEBT for $349 (noramlly $499) - only 3 left.

 

[orion23rigel]

So, @orionschmidt, why is so strange for you that I don't like that "review"?

I absolutely agree that it's not a good review of the headphones. You had just asked why you didn't get a response, and I was just indicating why I thought maybe that was.

 

[Giogio]

 
Yes you seem to be an expert of wireless but not that well versed in wired headphones.
I've listened to a few Denon's both in ear and over ear and found them to be far too bass heavy for my tastes. Seems to be a standard signature for Denon though again not as bass heavy as proper basshead cans.

Yes you are right, I have written it since my first post
I do have some preparation in music and sound (that's also why I can use an EQ) due to my studies in Theater which gave me the chance to have some experience with sound technicians, and then an attempt of music production with Ableton.
But, no, I am not a general expert of Headphones, nor a Sound Engineer.
Man, I would like to be all, but one has to choose
I like this to be my hobby, and I like to learn new things, without stress. I would probably not enjoy it so much if it was a job
 
For the Denon, I think I may love them <3
n00b2, I may have asked this several times, but, which of the headphones in my list did you try, and how could you rate for your tastes their bass out of the box?
I would love you to test the ATH and the M2BT for example. To see which one you find less bassy out of the box (as you like) but at same time more bassy with EQ, or also without EQ but on heavy bass music (like good headphones should do, light on normal music, hard on bass heavy music).

 

[Giogio]

For me, transparency is the freedom of sound from any intervening barriers, most usually a cloth or padding. Does it seem like you are in the same room as the musicians, or are you listening around a corner or through a speaker cloth?
@giogio what is your hesitation about the Momentum's suitability? Is it related to your earlier comment that the Definitive Technology Symphony 1 might be better than the Momentum for classical music because of the Momentum's bassiness?

Did I say that? Or did you quote the wrong person? I do not remember having said that the Momentum would not be good for Classical. I did not try any of those two.
Maybe you meant n00b2?
I have said something similar of the AKG K845BT, that they would be better for Classical than a, for example, UE9000.
Although, there are many different kind of classical and some do require some amount of GOOD bass.
 
I think I understand what you call transparency. It is a mix of many things, detail, soundstage, and quality of the frequency rendering (for example, no matter the colour or amount of a certain frequency, the absence of muddiness in it).
In few words, you want a detailed, spacious, not muffled sound.
Right?
The EQ does not have much to do with that in my opinion. But if you are able to correct "transparency" with an EQ, let me know how, so I understand it better.

 

[ruthieandjohn]

Yes I would imagine the Momentum would not sound great for classical. The Symphony on the other hand would be perfect for it with its neutral signature and wide open soundstage. The Denon's look interesting though not sure if the round ear cups would be comfortable or not.

@giogio Right, it was not you it was @n00b2 that commented about Momentum not being as good as the SYmphony for classical. My mistake.

But then what is your concern about the Momentum not being the right one? Thanks!

(Oh, and I agree, no way I know of to figure out how to EQ your way to my definition of transparency, i.e. "not muffled.")

 

[Giogio]

Sorry, I did not understand what you say of the EQ.
 
And you are confusing me. Or I am confusing myself.
Do you still speak with me?
I have no concern about the Momentum, because I have not tried them.
I may have a concern if I would have heard that they have a poor soundstage and a poor detail. Which for me are the two most important things for classical music.
But although who tested both said that the DTS1 has better soundstage and more neutral sound (which could be better for music) the M2 are said to have also very good soundstage and a reasonably balanced sound generally speaking.
 
I pass the word to @n00b2 

 

[Giogio]

   
Nothing to do with the year and everything to do with the Japanese philosophy of incremental improvement or kaizen.  In terms how this applies to recent and relevant Sony models, the MK2s are better than the 1RBTs and the 1As (using the same drivers as 1ABTs) are better than the 1Rs, and now we also have the first review of the 1ABT, so we don't have to completely guess about the possibilities.

Now I remember, we had a sort of discussion in another thread (the Mk2 probably) about the 1ABT going to be the "successor" of the 1RBT, with me saying they are not necessarily supposed to sound better, because they are not advertised as a successor of the 1RBTMk2 in the way the Mk2 were successor of the Mk1.
Which I still believe, although you say that the fact that the 1A come after the 1R and that the 1R were discontinued after the 1A arrived, means that the 1A is "successor" of the 1R.
It's a bit complicated and, finally, who cares.
But I think I've written you there that I have talked with a Sony Customer Care and although he had no idea about the 1ABT (the guys receive only a basic preparation and only in what is sold in their Country), he could read somewhere that the 1A were supposed to replace the 1R.
Thag given, I can imagine that it makes sense to call the 1ABT replacement or successor of the 1RBT.
And, I kind of at least hope for Sony that they made it right and it will sound better.
But n00b2 is right. The successors not always sound better.
These are indeed all speculations. Which is something forums are way too good in. And which I am not a huge fan of, but they keep the interest on products high. Like people talking of how a coming soon Movie will be.
Btw, how do you think will be the new Avengers?
I cannot wait to see the big Iron Man fighting with Hulk!

 

[ruthieandjohn]

  Sorry, I did not understand what you say of the EQ.
 
And you are confusing me. Or I am confusing myself.
Do you still speak with me?
I have no concern about the Momentum, because I have not tried them.
I may have a concern if I would have heard that they have a poor soundstage and a poor detail. Which for me are the two most important things for classical music.
But although who tested both said that the DTS1 has better soundstage and more neutral sound (which could be better for music) the M2 are said to have also very good soundstage and a reasonably balanced sound generally speaking.
 
I pass the word to @n00b2 

What I tried to say about EQ was that I don't know how to set equalization in a way to either increase or decrease transparency.  Sorry for not being clear.