[Articnoise]

Please let us all know once you have thoroughly listened to the Susvara whether the dip is as noticeable as you say. Until then you really don't have much of a point to prove in this thread.

To me, and other people, the dip does not cause the lower mids to be sucked out or sound wonky, but apparently we listen with our eyes and measurements

I don’t understand what are you debating? Someone measure a headphone and I made one reasonable remark related to those measurements. FYI 10 dB greater means double the loudness or twice as loud. If 10 dB is not detectable or have any correlation to the perceived sound what would?

For the record, I have own the HE-560 and listen and compered it and the HE 1000 to my HE-6. Both the HE-1000 and the HE-560 have a much smaller dip at 2 KHz, and still I have found them lacking some bite and sound a bit too soft in presence. Do everyone think those lack in presence? No, but am not alone and here we have measurement that have a dip that is twice as deep. The correlation between frequency response measurements and perceived sound is not 100 %, but big dips, peaks and uneven frequency response are always audible IME.

Btw 2KHz is not lower mids.

 

[Oscar-HiFi]

I don’t understand what are you debating? Someone measure a headphone and I made one reasonable remark related to those measurements. FYI 10 dB greater means double the loudness or twice as loud. If 10 dB is not detectable or have any correlation to the perceived sound what would?

For the record, I have own the HE-560 and listen and compered it and the HE 1000 to my HE-6. Both the HE-1000 and the HE-560 have a much smaller dip at 2 KHz, and still I have found them lacking some bite and sound a bit too soft in presence. Do everyone think those lack in presence? No, but am not alone and here we have measurement that have a dip that is twice as deep. The correlation between frequency response measurements and perceived sound is not 100 %, but big dips, peaks and uneven frequency response are always audible IME.

Btw 2KHz is not lower mids.

Sorry I meant midrange, I tested the Susvara side by side with the HE-6 and yes the sound is softer but I did not find them to be lacking in bite in comparison, just a smoother more coherent sound over the more forward and engaging HE-6.

Measurements only show part of the story, and if you look at them before listening, as has been discussed, it creates expectation bias and thus you will be listening for the dip rather than listening to the whole sound. I find measurements to help if I find something to sound a little off and need a little help putting my finger on it, not the other way around

 

[Articnoise]

Sorry I meant midrange, I tested the Susvara side by side with the HE-6 and yes the sound is softer but I did not find them to be lacking in bite in comparison, just a smoother more coherent sound over the more forward and engaging HE-6.

Measurements only show part of the story, and if you look at them before listening, as has been discussed, it creates expectation bias and thus you will be listening for the dip rather than listening to the whole sound. I find measurements to help if I find something to sound a little off and need a little help putting my finger on it, not the other way around

I also fund measurements to help if I find something to sound a little off, and it was exactly what I did with the HE 1000 v1. HEK sound very good in many ways, but the lack in bite and presence made it not for me even if it’s better than the HE6 in many other regards. Audio is about live and learn what your show stopper are

 

[Whazzzup]

You don’t need a graph to instantly hear the difference between he6 and v1 regardless of which you prefer, with he6 that’s the bass

 

[Oscar-HiFi]

I also fund measurements to help if I find something to sound a little off, and it was exactly what I did with the HE 1000 v1. HEK sound very good in many ways, but the lack in bite and presence made it not for me even if it’s better than the HE6 in many other regards. Audio is about live and learn what your show stopper are

Before I heard the Susvara, the HE-6 was the headphone I lusted after, and I still do

But I cannot afford either, we still have a pair of HE-6 here are Hifiheadphones that I enjoy a lot. I hope you get to hear the Susvara soon, it is incredibly smooth and natural sounding.

 

[reeltime]

lol the majority of people talking here are not willing to get a Susvara.

I'd consider upgrading if HifiMan would provide an upgrade path from my marvelous HE-1000 V2.

 

[AnakChan]

I'm waiting for my Susvara, and I'm undecided about what amplification I could go. Has anyone tested how a Moon 430 or a Audio Valve rkv3 could work? And since Anakchan had tried a Mcintosh mc275 and would have found one at a good price, as you can evaluate the difference between the Mcintosh and the other 2 amplifiers mentioned?

Note I'm not pushing/advocating the MC275, but it was the only amp I have at home that could drive the Susvara.

Doesn't hurt to be a little bit objective. Though I do believe it does set up an expectation bias to make the listener more likely to say "oh yeah I can hear a dip at 2khz..." when it may have gone unnoticed otherwise.

I like to look at graphs sometimes, as it can be helpful to pinpoint something you are hearing. But it does create expectation bias if you have not heard them, as you will be listening out for the flaws you see in the graph rather than subjectively analysing and judging whether you personally like them.

I think listeners do hear them. I had a colleague at my place a few weeks back and we were listening to the Susvara, and he mentioned that the Susvara had a dip which we both heard. In fact similarly, we mentioned that the SR-009 had a bump. Most folks probably wouldn't have measuring instrumentation and wouldn't be able to say "I heard a dip at that 2kHz" or that "bump at 1kHz" however when seeing the associated graph would be thinking, "that's what I heard" or "that's what a 10dB dip sounds like". In my review, I wrote "The midrange is a little mellowed (but not recessed)" but no way would I be able to pinpoint "a 10dB dip at 2kHz".

 

[Thaudiophile]

Note I'm not pushing/advocating the MC275, but it was the only amp I have at home that could drive the Susvara.
When will you be able to compare Susvara and SR 009 on carbon?



I think listeners do hear them. I had a colleague at my place a few weeks back and we were listening to the Susvara, and he mentioned that the Susvara had a dip which we both heard. In fact similarly, we mentioned that the SR-009 had a bump. Most folks probably wouldn't have measuring instrumentation and wouldn't be able to say "I heard a dip at that 2kHz" or that "bump at 1kHz" however when seeing the associated graph would be thinking, "that's what I heard" or "that's what a 10dB dip sounds like". In my review, I wrote "The midrange is a little mellowed (but not recessed)" but no way would I be able to pinpoint "a 10dB dip at 2kHz".

When will you be able to compare Susvara and SR 009 on carbon?

 

[AnakChan]

When will you be able to compare Susvara and SR 009 on carbon?

Nope. My Carbon boards still have no components on them (and I don't have any Carbon friends in Tokyo).

 

[biscottino]

You will have to let us know which pairs best, I know it's not all about the power/volume

Sure,

When will you be able to compare Susvara and SR 009 on carbon?

Birgir send me Carbon last week, my 009 is ready...at last i play Susvara vs 009 vs Utopia vs Lcd4 on my Viva Egoista.

 

[biscottino]

Note I'm not pushing/advocating the MC275, but it was the only amp I have at home that could drive the Susvara.



I think listeners do hear them. I had a colleague at my place a few weeks back and we were listening to the Susvara, and he mentioned that the Susvara had a dip which we both heard. In fact similarly, we mentioned that the SR-009 had a bump. Most folks probably wouldn't have measuring instrumentation and wouldn't be able to say "I heard a dip at that 2kHz" or that "bump at 1kHz" however when seeing the associated graph would be thinking, "that's what I heard" or "that's what a 10dB dip sounds like". In my review, I wrote "The midrange is a little mellowed (but not recessed)" but no way would I be able to pinpoint "a 10dB dip at 2kHz".

I usually play my ex he1000 with Burmester Rondò, 85wx2, directly on speaker output, it sounds great, so i think that Mc275 it's better too...

 

[Matez]

When will you be able to compare Susvara and SR 009 on carbon?

To have these compared to the 009 would be nice, yes.

 

[ubs28]

To have these compared to the 009 would be nice, yes.

I have compared them both, both using their official amplifiers. The Susvara was on the $14k EF-1000 and the SR-009 was on the latest $6500 Stax amplifier.

I prefered the SR-009 myself. The mids of the Susvara sounded a bit scooped or V-shaped to me.

 

[czy6412]

I have compared them both, both using their official amplifiers. The Susvara was on the $14k EF-1000 and the SR-009 was on the latest $6500 Stax amplifier.

I prefered the SR-009 myself. The mids of the Susvara definetly sounded scooped to me.

EF-1000 is not as good as ican pro, which I think is a poor amp.

 

[ubs28]

EF-1000 is not as good as ican pro, which I think us a poor amp.

I am also questioning the quality of the EF-1000 to be honest as I expected a better sound for that kind of money. Not sure if it is worse than the iCan Pro though.