[Currawong]

The ONLY time I tried the Shangri-La was briefly in Tokyo under the most ideal possible conditions, using a DAVE as source and listening to Chesky binaural albums. That was like nothing else I've experienced from headphones. The 3D image was way outside the headphones, as if the instruments themselves were playing around me. Again, 100% ideal set-up and music for that. I wish I'd tried a range of genres, but it was a brief visit and other people wanted to have a listen.

 

[erik701]

I’m not aware about any owner of Shangri-La here on the forum. Some people just had chance to hear it on some CanJam or show.

 

[dgindlespergerd]

The ONLY time I tried the Shangri-La was briefly in Tokyo under the most ideal possible conditions, using a DAVE as source and listening to Chesky binaural albums. That was like nothing else I've experienced from headphones. The 3D image was way outside the headphones, as if the instruments themselves were playing around me. Again, 100% ideal set-up and music for that. I wish I'd tried a range of genres, but it was a brief visit and other people wanted to have a listen.

I would agree with that statement, I heard them at CES last year in the Hifiman booth and was amazed; it was more like just being in a room full of beautiful sound. I did get to pick the song, but can't remember what it was now. That being said it is like a drug, always trying to get that same high without the very large pricetag that is on the Shangri-La

 

[JeffMann]

The ONLY time I tried the Shangri-La was briefly in Tokyo under the most ideal possible conditions, using a DAVE as source and listening to Chesky binaural albums. That was like nothing else I've experienced from headphones. The 3D image was way outside the headphones, as if the instruments themselves were playing around me. Again, 100% ideal set-up and music for that. I wish I'd tried a range of genres, but it was a brief visit and other people wanted to have a listen.

I get the same exaggerated 3-D imaging experience with the Susvara headphones when listening to Chesky's binaural albums.

I know of no rational reason why the Shangri-La should produce better soundstaging than a Susvara. Also, I find those Chesky binaural albums very unnnatural. They do not reproduce the soundstaging in a natural manner - as it would be heard in a classical music concert hall or opera stage.

Jeff.

 

[Whitigir]

I get the same exaggerated 3-D imaging experience with the Susvara headphones when listening to Chesky's binaural albums.

I know of no rational reason why the Shangri-La should produce better soundstaging than a Susvara. Also, I find those Chesky binaural albums very unnnatural. They do not reproduce the soundstaging in a natural manner - as it would be heard in a classical concert hall or opera stage.

Jeff.

And that translates into English would be?

 

[Currawong]

I get the same exaggerated 3-D imaging experience with the Susvara headphones when listening to Chesky's binaural albums.

I know of no rational reason why the Shangri-La should produce better soundstaging than a Susvara. Also, I find those Chesky binaural albums very unnnatural. They do not reproduce the soundstaging in a natural manner - as it would be heard in a classical music concert hall or opera stage.

Jeff.

That's because the recordings were made in what was a church.

 

[JeffMann]

That's because the recordings were made in what was a church.

Many classical music and opera recordings are made in a church without any unnatural soundstaging effects (as heard in a Chesky binaural recording). I think that it is the recording technique that is responsible for different soundstaging results in the final recording.

Jeff.

 

[LouisArmstrong]

I just hope all recordings will have binaural effect in the future. Must it be done at the spot when you record, or can it be post-processed?

 

[JeffMann]

I just hope all recordings will have binaural effect in the future. Must it be done at the spot when you record, or can it be post-processed?

We have a totally different perspective on this issue.

I have only heard one binaural recording, which was recommended by Bob Katz - https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/2017-innerfidelity-holiday-gift-guide-bob-katz

This is what he states regarding the "Sessions from the 17th ward" recording - "This recording firmly settles the debate whether the audio experience should be "You are There" or "They are Here". Wearing your favorite headphones, you are definitely there, in a beautiful acoustical space, surrounded by four great musicians. The first note you will hear in track 1, "Hold On", signals you that something special is about to happen. This cello solo comes from in front of you, at the left side of a giant soundstage, definitely outside the physical periphery of the headphones."

I agree with Bob Katz that the soundstage is very wide and that the cello is positioned at the extreme left of the soundstage, while the violin is positioned at the extreme right of the soundstage with the vocalist in the center. The drums are positioned intermediate between the violin and the vocalist. The imaginary "auditory soundstaging angle" between the cello and violin sounds to be about 160 degrees, and that is equivalent to sitting in the front rows of a concert hall where the cello is positioned at the extreme left of the concert hall stage and the violin at the extreme right. I find that soundstaging effect very unpleasant and very unnatural. In a "real life" concert hall setting consisting of three-or-four instruments (eg. trio consisting of a violin, a piano, and a cello, or a trio consisting of a vocalist and a violin and a piano, or a string quartet consisting of 4 string instruments) they all grouped close together so that the imaginary "auditory soundstaging angle" is <90 degrees from a central concert hall seat in the 10th row. Many of my well-recorded classical music recordings have that more limited soundstaging angle that gives me the very desirable impression that I am attending a "real life" concert hall performance when I listen to the recording with my Susvara headphones - and which gives me the distinct impression that I am "definitely there" in a "beautiful acoustic space".

Jeff.

 

[LouisArmstrong]

I also find that the Smyth Realiser presentation is better than binaural. To have that <60 degrees presentation I feel that headphones are quite inadequate, even if it is the Shangri-la or the Sennheiser HE-1, when compared with a stereo speakers system, and the Realiser helps achieve that for headphones. But since the Realiser may affect the SQ from the expensive DACs that people are using, binaural seems to be a middle-ground solution for headphones.

 

[JeffMann]

I also find that the Smyth Realiser presentation is better than binaural. To have that <60 degrees presentation I feel that headphones are quite inadequate, even if it is the Shangri-la or the Sennheiser HE-1, when compared with a stereo speakers system, and the Realiser helps achieve that for headphones. But since the Realiser may affect the SQ from the expensive DACs that people are using, binaural seems to be a middle-ground solution for headphones.

I disagree!

I find that my Susvara can reproduce any soundstaging angle that is inbuilt into a good quality recording and I don't need any "realiser or binaural" effects.

I have been a high end audiophile for 47 years - and I used speakers for the first 30 years and then headphones for the past 17 years. I get more accurate soundstaging from good headphones than speakers, which are too affected by secondary reflections from the walls and furniture - even though the recording (if well done) was created with speakers.

Jeff.

 

[336881]

I disagree!

I find that my Susvara can reproduce any soundstaging angle that is inbuilt into a good quality recording and I don't need any "realiser or binaural" effects.

I have been a high end audiophile for 47 years - and I used speakers for the first 30 years and then headphones for the past 17 years. I get more accurate soundstaging from good headphones than speakers, which are too affected by secondary reflections from the walls and furniture - even though the recording (if well done) was created with speakers.

Jeff.

No sorry headphones are for detail and speakers for soundstage. One area of audio that has made some decent progress in the last 17 years is bass traps, diffusers, and isolation platforms. Speaker cables one could argue as well. It is also head stage not sound stage with headphones. I have yet to listen to a Susvara but I do own the fairly open and airy sounding hd800.

 

[JeffMann]

No sorry headphones are for detail and speakers for soundstage. One area of audio that has made some decent progress in the last 17 years is bass traps, diffusers, and isolation platforms. Speaker cables one could argue as well. It is also head stage not sound stage with headphones. I have yet to listen to a Susvara but I do own the fairly open and airy sounding hd800.

We have a different perspective.

I prefer the term soundstage, rather than the term headstage, because I can mentally project the overall sound picture into an imaginary mental space well in front of my head - representing a microscopic version of a concert hall stage (when using my Susvara or HD800 headphones). Also, the sound image placement within that microscopic soundstage is more representationally accurate than any soundstage imaging I have ever heard from a speaker system (either in my dedicated home listening room or a dealer's showroom).

Jeff.

 

[TheAttorney]

I prefer the term soundstage, rather than the term headstage, because I can mentally project the overall sound picture into an imaginary mental space well in front of my head - representing a microscopic version of a concert hall stage (when using my Susvara or HD800 headphones). Also, the sound image placement within that microscopic soundstage is more representationally accurate than any soundstage imaging I have ever heard from a speaker system (either in my dedicated home listening room or a dealer's showroom).

I'm generally with you on this one.
One thing to add though: If the Susvara's soundstage is anything like the HEK V2, then a GOOD cross-feed can work wonders to tighten up the image definition and increase depth (usually at the expense of width, which is a good trade-off for me). And this without that strange feeling I get when listening to any binaural recordings I've heard.

DAVE DAC has an example of good CF. Once I get used to this for a while, then going back to no CF can be quite disconcerting, especially on the more widely panned recordings. This CF effect was less critical on other headphones I tried (even the HD800), but don't knock it until you try it.

 

[biscottino]

I'm generally with you on this one.
One thing to add though: If the Susvara's soundstage is anything like the HEK V2, then a GOOD cross-feed can work wonders to tighten up the image definition and increase depth (usually at the expense of width, which is a good trade-off for me). And this without that strange feeling I get when listening to any binaural recordings I've heard.

DAVE DAC has an example of good CF. Once I get used to this for a while, then going back to no CF can be quite disconcerting, especially on the more widely panned recordings. This CF effect was less critical on other headphones I tried (even the HD800), but don't knock it until you try it.

I do not think that Susvara has a soundstage similar to the hek v2 that is even flatter. Susvara has a micro dynamics that the hek does not have, twice the speed in every single instrument, in the details much better than my 009 amplified by the kgss Carbon.