[Currawong]

I'm kind of struggling to find a good way to describe the imaging and soundstage differences between the Susvara and Utopias as well. It's not that the Utopias have better imaging in general, it's just that it's tighter grouped because of the smaller perceived soundstage. Best analogy I can come up with is the Susvara is like a 65" 4K TV, and the Utopia is a 42" 4K TV. Both are displaying the same resolution and information, but it's easier to pick out details from the farthest edges of the smaller 42" TV because your eyes don't have to hunt back and forth as much than with a larger screen. Also, the smaller pixels can give an impression of more detail because of the smaller density. I'm hearing basically the same details from both headphones, but it's a little easier to pick out the imaging differences with the Utopias because they're closer together in the smaller soundstage. The more upfront and smaller soundstage makes the Utopias sound a little more intimate as well, and lends itself well to vocal centric music. If I had to pick a single headphone for studio monitoring / mastering, I'd probably choose the Utopia (well we'll ignore the fact that it's not closed back).

There's also an echo / phase issue (lack of transparency, maybe not wording it right here) I have with the Utopias, which is more a limitation of the transparency of it's driver type rather than actual sound reverberations in the ear cups. More of a closed in feel to the sound, like I'm listening in real life with my hands near my ears, while the Susvara (and pretty much every magneplanar and electrostat) is completely wide open and transparent. I don't hear a lot of echo, but I am definitely always aware that there is a wall of material near my ears when listening with the Utopia's. The Utopia's also do not play nice with my Smyth Realiser A8, but that's another subject I'll have to go into further detail later in my review.

It could be a gear difference, but I've been getting a lot more low-level detail out of the Utopias in my system than the HiFiMan headphones. I don't think that the Utopia seems to have better imaging because of the narrower soundstage. If that were so, the imaging would be worse. I find that, say, the singer on a good stereo recording are dead center with the Utopia, but are spread out through the center with the Susvara. Likewise other instruments locations are sharp and clear with the Utopia, and more vague with other headphones in general.

 

[esimms86]

http://www.soundstagexperience.com/index.php/features-menu/pulse-menu/811-what-we-really-need-from-new-audio-products

 

[VandyMan]

The Utopia's also do not play nice with my Smyth Realiser A8, but that's another subject I'll have to go into further detail later in my review.

I'm very interested in hear more about this.

 

[336881]

You'd be surprised at how mint condition people can keep their headphones. But for sure, something like the Sony R10's are too organic and basically decay on their own over time.

And I really tire of the argument of touting speakers as an alternative to high end headphones. Some of us live in congested city areas in condos/apartments that cost more than most people's large houses, and using speakers is not even a possibility to enjoy to it's fullest extent.

Fair enough but I also grow tired of so called audio fans wanting to live in crowded, congested, noisy citiy. You would mistake the town I live in for Mayberry if the Arch was not in the background. Peaceful, quiet, clean, you can actually hear nature. Trust me you can find something nice and quiet within half an hour drive of any city. My town is literally a 15 min. drive to the Arch. I spend all kinds of time downtown at bars at blues games, couldn't pay me to live there and that is mostly cause of the noise.

 

[moshen]

The Susvara is significantly more aggressive than the HE1000. Very punchy in comparison, almost too edgy at first (particularly treble), but after breaking/burning them in, it smoothed out. Mid bass not nearly as strong as the HE1000, though, but the Susvara goes lower and the bass sounds a lot flatter. So the perceived bass can seem a bit recessed, but when you go back to the HE1000 from the Susvara, the bass sounds almost bloated and boomy.

Just curious, are you comparing Susvara with HEK v1 or v2? The v2 does clean up the boomy bass from the v1 - it was the biggest difference in sound quality between the two I noticed.

 

[thatonenoob]

Fair enough but I also grow tired of so called audio fans wanting to live in crowded, congested, noisy citiy. You would mistake the town I live in for Mayberry if the Arch was not in the background. Peaceful, quiet, clean, you can actually hear nature. Trust me you can find something nice and quiet within half an hour drive of any city. My town is literally a 15 min. drive to the Arch. I spend all kinds of time downtown at bars at blues games, couldn't pay me to live there and that is mostly cause of the noise.

Not everyone has the benefit of being able to pick a living space with audio specifically in mind. A good number of people engage in audio to escape their surroundings, specifically bc actually escaping their surroundings is close to impossible. Let's just look at the audio hubs of the world - Hong Kong, Tokyo, Singapore. Not too easy to leave the "crowded, congested, noisy citiy" environs don't you think?

Just some food for thought.

 

[PeteSTRADAMUS]

It could be a gear difference, but I've been getting a lot more low-level detail out of the Utopias in my system than the HiFiMan headphones. I don't think that the Utopia seems to have better imaging because of the narrower soundstage. If that were so, the imaging would be worse. I find that, say, the singer on a good stereo recording are dead center with the Utopia, but are spread out through the center with the Susvara. Likewise other instruments locations are sharp and clear with the Utopia, and more vague with other headphones in general.

Currawong, Did you get the Susvara yet? And are you reviewing them?

 

[ubs28]

It could be a gear difference, but I've been getting a lot more low-level detail out of the Utopias in my system than the HiFiMan headphones. I don't think that the Utopia seems to have better imaging because of the narrower soundstage. If that were so, the imaging would be worse. I find that, say, the singer on a good stereo recording are dead center with the Utopia, but are spread out through the center with the Susvara. Likewise other instruments locations are sharp and clear with the Utopia, and more vague with other headphones in general.

I agree. Else the HD 650 would have better imaging than the HD 800 which is not the case. The Focal Utopia simply has outstanding imaging.

 

[336881]

Not everyone has the benefit of being able to pick a living space with audio specifically in mind. A good number of people engage in audio to escape their surroundings, specifically bc actually escaping their surroundings is close to impossible. Let's just look at the audio hubs of the world - Hong Kong, Tokyo, Singapore. Not too easy to leave the "crowded, congested, noisy citiy" environs don't you think?

Just some food for thought.

Very true and if I were to pick a #1 reason for my move it def. would not be audio. Still if I lived in the heart of a city I would absolutely spend just about all of my income on live events not a $6k open can that is going to let all those loud city noises in. Maybe a R10 or Shure's new super expensive iem, but an open can? Does not make sense.

 

[AnakChan]

Let's not get too OT here with where ppl live.

Back to the Susvara, I had a somewhat more personal listening session to it last week in the Hifiman Japan's office as er post #162 in the other thread. I echo @Currawong's statement that the Utopia has more low level detail however find the Susvara rather fluid - in both cases, the headphones were off the WA8. The Susvara requires a beefier amp however which I didn't bring to their office.

 

[Matez]

Let's not get too OT here with where ppl live.

Back to the Susvara, I had a somewhat more personal listening session to it last week in the Hifiman Japan's office as er post #162 in the other thread. I echo @Currawong's statement that the Utopia has more low level detail however find the Susvara rather fluid - in both cases, the headphones were off the WA8. The Susvara requires a beefier amp however which I didn't bring to their office.

Thanks for your input. So it seems that Susvara is quite a different animal than Utopia, yes? Different flavours more than anything else this time?

 

[AnakChan]

Personally for me, it's just different flavours between the Utopia and Susvara. I'd be more interested in a comparison between LCD4 and Susvara - I've only heard the LCD4 very rarely but not enough to remember.

 

[protoss]

R10 maybe but the k-1000 had the stax sigma as a competitor for sure as well as floats. Also my apm-4 speakers are just as rare as the R10, had a high retail price 540,000 yen vs 360,000 yen and had more time with inflation. $4k minty fresh. You couldn't get a pair of R10 drivers today for $4k. Just me but there really is no justification for the crazy prices with lots of great speakers around. Maybe not the best comparisons as they are much different experiences but I know from where I sit and using the apm-4's as a measuring stick, the R10's are def. not worth over $4k. No headphone should be that much money.

You are completely wrong about the R-10! Hands down... it is worth 4K and above.

The concept, the presentation, the details that went into it is ground breaking. The light weight feeling and the woodie earcups screams excellent.
The soft fluffy pushy earpads makes the R-10 the most comfortable headphone ever made.
The soft excellent light weight cable with its Y-split is just perfect.

The leather case Box, red interior, keys and booklet is a great touch of premium quality.

The feeling of putting it on and almost forgetting its even on is just great.

And than the SOUND! The most natural, organic, musical, down to earth warm humanly possible sound that it produce can not be match.
Everything sounds natural and real, nothing fake or artificial. Nothing lacking. And yes it has bass you bass junkies out there! A natural bass that excell to greatness.

All hail Kings of Kings the mighty R-10

 

[Currawong]

I suggested to Nao that Sony could build the R10 again exactly the same and people would fall over themselves to buy them, but alas...

I re-jigged my set-up and got a bit better sound out of the Solaris (like the RKV II I owned, it seems to be sensitive to power supply quality) using the new Audio-gd R2R 7 as the source. It's far from the greatest example of recording fidelity, but 96 by Turin Brakes is purely enjoyable with the Susvara. The Utopias can end up being a bit too analytical, revealing too much about how these kinds of recordings were made.

 

[WoodyLuvr]

I suggested to Nao that Sony could build the R10 again exactly the same and people would fall over themselves to buy them, but alas...

I re-jigged my set-up and got a bit better sound out of the Solaris (like the RKV II I owned, it seems to be sensitive to power supply quality) using the new Audio-gd R2R 7 as the source. It's far from the greatest example of recording fidelity, but 96 by Turin Brakes is purely enjoyable with the Susvara. The Utopias can end up being a bit too analytical, revealing too much about how these kinds of recordings were made.

Do you ever return to reality... to the realm of mere mortals... and listen to normal headphones from dare I say a smartphone or would that be a lethal event for you to do so?