[Whitigir]

Maybe i am right or maybe I am wrong, but the best thing about headfi is Impressions and comparisons, isn't it? Abyss thread has a lot of comparisons and people have also listed their gears(Amps and dacs) in comparisons. You should check that thread out.

I understand fully well what you just meant. In the mean while, you need to read into Stax and the best amplifier for it and why , and then you will know what I meant. I was once in your footstep

 

[Ancipital]

Maybe i am right or maybe I am wrong, but the best thing about headfi is Impressions and comparisons, isn't it?

No, the best thing is the classified ads, for getting rid of stuff that you bought when you were daft enough to believe the "impressions and comparisons" here.

 

[mulder01]

Thaudiophile, as you probably already know, it's all very much down to personal taste. There were plenty of people out there saying that the HE1000 was better than the Abyss when it got released. Same thing happened when LCD-4 came out. I went to a store both times to do a comparison. I only needed a short session to decide that neither headphones were even close to the Abyss for me. Others disagree.

As mentioned above, if I had relied on other's impressions, I may have bought both pairs of headphones and resold them shortly after.

I am looking forward to hearing Susvara sometime but am not keen on the way hifi man keeps rushing out new flagships or their level of customer service. It would have to sound EXTREMELY good for me to overlook those points. Won't rule out anything unless I hear it for myself though.

 

[Thaudiophile]

It's not that I think impressions or comparisons are always correct and on point but i am being honest, it's always nice to read them.Especially because these are new and cost 6k.

 

[Whitigir]

It's not that I think impressions or comparisons are always correct and on point but i am being honest, it's always nice to read them.Especially because these are new and cost 6k.

Well, a doctor said it sounds good, and it really is a 6K. Isn't that enough ?

 

[Thaudiophile]

Well, a doctor said it sounds good, and it really is a 6K. Isn't that enough ?

It may sound good, but does it sound good enough for 6k+shipping? There are amazing options at almost half the price like Sr 009,abyss, utopia. I want to know what makes susvara special that it costs 2-3k more than these headphones. Not many get the opportunity to demo them.

 

[thatonenoob]

Well, a doctor said it sounds good, and it really is a 6K. Isn't that enough ?

Not at all.

 

[sahmen]

It may sound good, but does it sound good enough for 6k+shipping? There are amazing options at almost half the price like Sr 009,abyss, utopia. I want to know what makes susvara special that it costs 2-3k more than these headphones. Not many get the opportunity to demo them.

You know what I really think after hanging around these boards for about three years and diddling with a few cans in several price ranges? There is *no* calculable correlation between price, quality, and performance once you cross approximately the $1000 line... (I heard that from another head-fier about a year ago, and it has always stuck with me, like an important "lightbulb" moment). Beyond that, it is not really possible to justify price to performance either in relation to one can or how that can compares with others... Take the hifiman upgrades of He-k and the He-Xs... They are supposed to be "upgrades" but the He-Xv2 dropped steeply in price as compared to the original, whereas the exact opposite occurred with the He-KV2, which drove down the price of the original, and became the new $3000.00 Hifiman Kingpin. Good luck trying to explain the logic of all these shifts and changes in price...

I think you will need even more luck if you attempt to make sense of the differences between different brands of headphones and their prices, quality, and performance in a comparative way...

As for the tendency of audiophiles (especially early adopters) to act as if "new" is always better, don't get me started on that...

I know people normally talk as if they expect price to reflect quality and performance in this hobby (i.e. "you get what you pay for" blah, blah, blah), but I suspect that just arises from a desire (however delusional that is) to operate in market conditions that are logically and rationally structured ( i.e. in a world that makes sense), rather a desire to face the headphones industry and market, as they really operate...

Note: I am not at all saying that dealing in such illusions or delusions is necessarily a bad thing... After all, it is a hobby, and people need illusions to make our lives more tolerable and enjoyable... I really can't begrudge anyone indulging themselves in any way they please in this hobby, as long as they have a pocket book that matches their whims and indulgences well...

With all that said, this philosophical rant is beginning to bug me as hell, so allow me to bow out now, before my head bursts into flames

 

[Currawong]

So far, my impressions of the Susvara vs. the Utopias is that the latter have uncannily precise imaging and depth to their benefit, and the upper-mid peak and narrow-seeming soundstage on anything but the fastest gear to their detriment. The Susvaras have the better engagement and dynamics to their benefit, and the less precise imaging than the Utopias in comparison.

 

[Whazzzup]

Im all about the engagement and dynamics

 

[Whitigir]

Im all about the engagement and dynamics

Grab your SusVara and post impressions

 

[Edwood]

Not going to happen, It was already stated that 009 and SusVara are two different Headphones with too much differences. Idk about any one else, but to me, that is an affirmation that 009 is superior



See ? To me this is not about the saying "apples to apples"

SusVara is 6K vs 009 at 4K
Both are open back
Both are TOTL from a company

But I guess since we are talking about apples to apples, it just plain out meaning that SusVara is a dynamic headphones, and in comparison about technology principles and it pinnacle, Electro Stat is superior. This, right here, means 009 is superior

Now, a used 009 in good condition with a used KGSSHV Carbon can really be had for 6K

One of the reason why I value Focal Utopia a lot is that it is so efficient and easy to drive. It sounds great out of a walkman Wm1z and can scale up pretty crazily. It performances get so close to 009, together with it Portability, craftsmanship, it was one of my best purchase. Utopia wasn't shy away and or afraid to compare against 009 though

I would be more interested in SusVara vs Utopia. I can already see and predict the results, some (early adopter) people would personally prefer SusVara, and some (later folk) would prefer Utopia! One thing is for sure. The Utopia is so easy to drive to performances right into a DAP, now let's see how SusVara would compare up to that

Talk about exotics, Utopia has Carbon fibers and Beryllium, SusVara probably has angles and heaven voices. Given that both has Special and unique magnets constructions

If I have the chance, I'll compare the SR-009 + BHSE vs. Susvara GS-X mk2. But likely not until there is a new Electrostat out worthy to compare to the SR-009. And by then there will likely be a new king of Electrostat amps out, and newer headphones, never ending goodness upgrade cycle. But as the picture shown earlier, I did have a chance to compare the SR-009 + BHSE vs. HE1000 + EF1000, and for the most part, I ended up preferring the HE1000 combo over the SR-009. The SR-009 was amazing for it's time, but nearly 6 years later it's going to have a tougher time competing, especially with newer TOTL headphones (both Electrostats and Dynamic) coming out.

But to be fair, let's put full MSRP new prices into comparisons when comparing TOTL Electrostats like SR-009 and Susvara. Trying to keep it as close to "apples to apples" here by picking a single amp manufacturer.

The Stax SR-009 MSRP is currently $3825 (was just over $5000 when it was first released in the USA). New HeadAmp Blue Hawaii Special Edition is $5799 (lowest priced configuration).
SR-009 + BHSE = $9624

The HiFiMan Susvara MSRP is currently $6000. New HeadAmp GS-X mk2 is $2,999 (lowest priced configuration).
Susvara + GS-X mk2 = $8999

So the Stax combo still costs more, but the price difference is much closer now. If we used the SR-009's original MSRP of $5250 back in 2011, we're talking of a much more substantial $2050 price difference. I'm sure the Susvara will be significantly cheaper in 6 years.

So it seems the pricing trend is that TOTL Electrostat headphones cost less than a complimenting TOTAL amp. While TOTL Dynamic headphones cost more than a complimenting TOTL amp.

 

[Whitigir]

If I have the chance, I'll compare the SR-009 + BHSE vs. Susvara GS-X mk2. But likely not until there is a new Electrostat out worthy to compare to the SR-009. And by then there will likely be a new king of Electrostat amps out, and newer headphones, never ending goodness upgrade cycle. But as the picture shown earlier, I did have a chance to compare the SR-009 + BHSE vs. HE1000 + EF1000, and for the most part, I ended up preferring the HE1000 combo over the SR-009. The SR-009 was amazing for it's time, but nearly 6 years later it's going to have a tougher time competing, especially with newer TOTL headphones (both Electrostats and Dynamic) coming out.

But to be fair, let's put full MSRP new prices into comparisons when comparing TOTL Electrostats like SR-009 and Susvara. Trying to keep it as close to "apples to apples" here by picking a single amp manufacturer.

The Stax SR-009 MSRP is currently $3825 (was just over $5000 when it was first released in the USA). New HeadAmp Blue Hawaii Special Edition is $5799 (lowest priced configuration).
SR-009 + BHSE = $9624

The HiFiMan Susvara MSRP is currently $6000. New HeadAmp GS-X mk2 is $2,999 (lowest priced configuration).
Susvara + GS-X mk2 = $8999

So the Stax combo still costs more, but the price difference is much closer now. If we used the SR-009's original MSRP of $5250 back in 2011, we're talking of a much more substantial $2050 price difference. I'm sure the Susvara will be significantly cheaper in 6 years.

So it seems the pricing trend is that TOTL Electrostat headphones cost less than a complimenting TOTAL amp. While TOTL Dynamic headphones cost more than a complimenting TOTL amp.

Thank you for the post. Now I finally know why/what/how the SusVara was priced in the 6K range. The benchmark of it.

 

[336881]

As for the tendency of audiophiles (especially early adopters) to act as if "new" is always better, don't get me started on that...

You also have the old heads who think their beat to crap K-1000, Original Orpheus, R-10, L-3000 are worth a mint because of inflation/rareity. Only area of audio I found this in and I have bought vintage, in particular vintage Japan, in pretty much every aspect of audio gear at this point. Tons of rare pricey stuff as well. All either original retail or much, much less.

 

[roxrite]

How is the presentation of the susvara compared to the he 1000 v2?
Some say it is more engaging the v1.
How is the soundstage compared the he 1k v2?
How much smaller is it?
I compared the he 1k vs the lcd 4 for example and did not like the lcd 4 because it was to narrow for me.
Is the soundstage and the tonality more like the lcd 4 or does it still offer thr balance between musicality and analytical sound?

Want to purchase 1 of these 2 and im mainly listening to classical music and sometimes pop and rock