HiFiMan Introduces New HE-500 Planar Magnetic Headphones
Aug 15, 2012 at 6:00 AM Post #1,711 of 1,779
Quote:
One of the most enjoyable things with this kind of set-up is listening to music I am very familiar with and essentially rediscovering it simply due to how brilliant it is sounding when compared to how it sounded before. I guess that is the true statement about the success of a set-up. The HE-500s are more than capable of such repeated 'wow' moments. These phones are not dainty or delicate - they are muscular and they love power, they simply lap it up and serve it back to you in dishes of pure pleasure -- they are that good.

 
I agree with this so much.  I loved my HE-500 before, and now that I have more suited equipment to plug them into, well it's a joyful experience.  I use my speakers quite a lot even though they are lacking in range just because speakers are so easy to use.  My speakers are pretty great but the bass is REALLY rolled off.  The HE-500 allows for an extremely personal listening experience.  With my current setup, everything sounds just perfect.  That setup being Creative soundcard optical out -> MDHT Labs Havana w/ Tung Sol 2C51 -> Decware Taboo
 
cheers
 
Aug 15, 2012 at 12:55 PM Post #1,712 of 1,779
Hi everyone,
 
I just got a Violectric v200 amp powering my HE-500s. I have tried them using a Marantz CD5004 connected through Audioquest Sydney RCAs. I haven't burned them in fully yet, though I am still not happy at all with the sound: highs are too harsh and lack some detail, soundstage is a bit narrow, bass is relatively weak. I have tried using the 6db pre gain and still haven't achieved anything close to what the HE-500s should sound like. Does anyone have any suggestions? I know this combo is supposed to rock so something must be wrong.
 
Any feedback would be great! Thanks!
 
Aug 15, 2012 at 2:21 PM Post #1,713 of 1,779
This was the exact combo I had prior to Taboo + HE-500.  If you get a chance try a different source into the V200.  There were plenty of times in which I liked or disliked a combo based on the source.  Since the only difference between our set ups is the DAC I think trying a different source is worth giving it a shot.  With the DAC-2 I had no hint of harshness and lack of detail.  Good, tight bass is not a problem with the V200.  
 
Also, are your HE-500s fully burned in?  Same goes for the V200?  Not everything requires burn in but I did find those 2 did.  
Quote:
Hi everyone,
 
I just got a Violectric v200 amp powering my HE-500s. I have tried them using a Marantz CD5004 connected through Audioquest Sydney RCAs. I haven't burned them in fully yet, though I am still not happy at all with the sound: highs are too harsh and lack some detail, soundstage is a bit narrow, bass is relatively weak. I have tried using the 6db pre gain and still haven't achieved anything close to what the HE-500s should sound like. Does anyone have any suggestions? I know this combo is supposed to rock so something must be wrong.
 
Any feedback would be great! Thanks!

 
Aug 17, 2012 at 12:19 PM Post #1,715 of 1,779
Well, I couldn't stand it anymore so I caved in and ordered a pair of 5LE's. they'll be here tomorrow (thanks Amazon Prime!).

Also, I have an old integrated Pioneer amp I bought in 1979 or so and I'm interested in trying it out speaker taps. How do I obtain it/them?


Palmfish, any updates? Did you get your 5LE's yet? Did you try out speaker taps yet?

Just curious how you're getting along and impressions of 500 vs 5LE and HP out vs speaker taps.
 
Aug 17, 2012 at 5:57 PM Post #1,716 of 1,779
Quote:
Palmfish, any updates? Did you get your 5LE's yet? Did you try out speaker taps yet?
Just curious how you're getting along and impressions of 500 vs 5LE and HP out vs speaker taps.

 
I did get my 5LE's but I've been flying a lot this week and my ears have been too tired to really listen to them. A brief first impression out of the box is that they are very bright and overly ssssssibilant, and the bass is big, but loose and bleeding into the mids - lower mid bloat vs. the upper mid bloat of the 500's.
 
I've been breaking them in because I read one review that said the sibilance goes away after 100 hours. I've been resting my ears for my visit to my friend's place tomorrow for some serious listening. I promise to report back.
 
The parts for the speaker tap cable were shipped via first class mail so I probably won't get to try that out until the following weekend.
 
Aug 17, 2012 at 6:13 PM Post #1,717 of 1,779
Talk to LFF about his HE-5/HE-5LE mod. It tamed the high end without killing all that's great about the HE-5/LE.
Quote:
 
I did get my 5LE's but I've been flying a lot this week and my ears have been too tired to really listen to them. A brief first impression out of the box is that they are very bright and overly ssssssibilant, and the bass is big, but loose and bleeding into the mids - lower mid bloat vs. the upper mid bloat of the 500's.
 
I've been breaking them in because I read one review that said the sibilance goes away after 100 hours. I've been resting my ears for my visit to my friend's place tomorrow for some serious listening. I promise to report back.
 
The parts for the speaker tap cable were shipped via first class mail so I probably won't get to try that out until the following weekend.

 
Aug 18, 2012 at 4:00 PM Post #1,719 of 1,779
My 5LE took well over 200 hours before settling down.  The highs smooth out and the bass tightens.   


Yeah, mine sounded sibilant when I first got them (used, but not sure how many hours were on them), but now don't unless the recording is that way.

Palmfish, you may want to hold off on any mods until they're fully burned in.
 
Aug 18, 2012 at 9:41 PM Post #1,720 of 1,779
I just got back from my friend's sound lab and thought I'd post some quick impressions. Here's a rundown of the equipment we used:

Mackie 6 headphone mixer
Laptop running WinAmp
Violectric V200 amp
Violectric V800 DAC
Logitech Squeezebox Touch

And the headphones present:

HiFiMAN HE-500 X2 (his and mine)
Sennheiser HD600
Denon AH-D7000
Denon AH-D2000

Round one (level match all headphones):

WinAmp from the laptop to the V800 via optical then to the mixer via unbalanced plugs. We played pink noise through each headphone one at a time and measured it with a professional studio mic (I don't remember the model) to level match all headphones to 75dB on the mixer.

Then we started the music (the tracks I previously mentioned here where I detected recessed treble detail and/or bloated mids on the HE-500).

We first compared his HE-500's to mine. Neither of us could detect a difference. We both agreed that the HE-500 has something going on in the midrange. Whether it's the bass bleeding up or something else, the HE-500's sounded a little tubby and thick on some recordings - like looking outside through a window that's got a layer of haze on it. My friend was actually surprised by how good the D7000's sounded. They sounded clearer with obviously beefed up bass that was not obtrusive or bleeding into the midrange. Brighter than the HE-500, there was also more detail retrieval, although some of the sounds I couldn't hear on the 500's, he could clearly hear. In part, I attribute this to my hearing loss and tinnitus. He was even more surprised by the D2000's. For the $200 I paid for them, they come very close to the performance of the D7000. The notable difference between them is a little looser bass control and slightly hotter (but not sibilant) treble in the 2000. Finally, the HD 600. It has been a while since I sold my pair so I was looking forward to hearing them again. They were as I remembered - the most neutral of the group with nice treble detail, natural mids, and good bass, though the bass lacks punch and weight compared to the Denons and HiFiMAN. We agreed that vocals sounded the most natural of all the headphones on the Sennheiser's.

We spent the most time here listening to a variety of music and swapping headphones. No blind testing, but the differences were large enough to easily distinguish between all of them.

Round two (compare mixer output to V200):

We moved his HE-500's from the mixing board to the V200 (now fed from the V800 via analog RCA cables. Again, we level matched them with pink noise to the other headphones. This round was relatively short because neither of us could detect a difference between the two HE-500's.

Round three (final):

We disconnected the mixer and plugged in my system. My Logitech Squeezebox Touch was the source, simultaneously outputting via optical to the V800 and V200 and via analog RCA cables to my Carver Receiver. We loaded the pink noise file onto my thumb drive and played it from the Squeezebox to level match the two amps (V200 and Carver).

Then we switched to music and focused exclusively on the D7000, switching back and forth between the V200 and my Carver. My friend said that he heard a little more clarity from the Violectric system, which he attributed to the V800's superiority over the Logitch's built-in DAC. He was however very surprised by how small the difference was. I personally couldn't tell the difference between the two, but took him at his word because he is a pro audio scientist and also does not suffer from hearing loss. He commented that the difference only appeared to him above about 4kHz and it was only on the decay following certain sounds. From 4kHz and below, he said he couldn't hear any difference.

My conclusions by the end of the day were clear:

1. I don't think the HE-500 is the headphone for me for the reasons I mentioned previously. What I was hearing from them on my system was repeated in the lab using high resolution equipment and I am satisfied that it's not my imagination. I much prefer the "clarity" of the D7000's and for those tracks where the bass overwhelms, my receiver has tone controls to knock it back down to size.

2. My Carver Receiver is one heck of a good amp that goes toe-to-toe with highly respected dedicated solid state headphone amps. The V200 is now the fourth amp (Schiit Asgard, Peachtree Nova, and Objective2) that I have directly compared it to with no difference detected. With the benefit of powering my speakers, serving as a preamp for all my sources, and it's inclusion of tone controls to tweak the sound to my liking, it would be foolish of me to replace or supplement it.

3. The V800 is now the third outboard DAC (Peachtree Nova and Cambridge Audio DacMagic are the other two) that I have compared to the Squeezebox's built-in DAC with no difference detected. Clearly, the biggest difference in sound is from one model headphone to another. From there, tubes are probably the next way to color your sound in a significant way (albeit in a trial and error, hit or miss manner). Upgrading from one well designed DAC and/or solid state amp to the next is basically a waste of time AFAIC. The differences claimed by manufacturers, sellers, and some enthusiasts are at the very least, highly overstated in my humble opinion.

4. The Sennheiser HD 600 is still a terrific headphone. You can spend a lot more money and still not necessarily get better sound.

Tune in next week for my opinion of powering the HiFiMAN headphones from 130WPC speaker taps!
 
Aug 18, 2012 at 9:54 PM Post #1,721 of 1,779
Yeah, mine sounded sibilant when I first got them (used, but not sure how many hours were on them), but now don't unless the recording is that way.
Palmfish, you may want to hold off on any mods until they're fully burned in.


Right. I'm not planning on modding these. I'll give them more break-in and see what they sound like next weekend.
 
Aug 19, 2012 at 2:12 AM Post #1,722 of 1,779
Quote:
My conclusions by the end of the day were clear:
1. I don't think the HE-500 is the headphone for me for the reasons I mentioned previously. What I was hearing from them on my system was repeated in the lab using high resolution equipment and I am satisfied that it's not my imagination. I much prefer the "clarity" of the D7000's and for those tracks where the bass overwhelms, my receiver has tone controls to knock it back down to size.
2. My Carver Receiver is one heck of a good amp that goes toe-to-toe with highly respected dedicated solid state headphone amps. The V200 is now the fourth amp (Schiit Asgard, Peachtree Nova, and Objective2) that I have directly compared it to with no difference detected. With the benefit of powering my speakers, serving as a preamp for all my sources, and it's inclusion of tone controls to tweak the sound to my liking, it would be foolish of me to replace or supplement it.
3. The V800 is now the third outboard DAC (Peachtree Nova and Cambridge Audio DacMagic are the other two) that I have compared to the Squeezebox's built-in DAC with no difference detected. Clearly, the biggest difference in sound is from one model headphone to another. From there, tubes are probably the next way to color your sound in a significant way (albeit in a trial and error, hit or miss manner). Upgrading from one well designed DAC and/or solid state amp to the next is basically a waste of time AFAIC. The differences claimed by manufacturers, sellers, and some enthusiasts are at the very least, highly overstated in my humble opinion.
4. The Sennheiser HD 600 is still a terrific headphone. You can spend a lot more money and still not necessarily get better sound.
Tune in next week for my opinion of powering the HiFiMAN headphones from 130WPC speaker taps!

 
Nice write-up Palmfish.  Too bad the 5LE's weren't burned in and missed out on the fun.  It would've been nice to include it in the mix and see how it compared against the others.  
 
Maybe I missed it, but what was the output power of the mixing board?  Just wondering how much power the HE-500's were getting.
 
What's the HP out of your Carver like?  Is it a dedicated HP out using it's own circuit, or is it derived directly from the main amp using resistors?
 
Aug 19, 2012 at 3:24 AM Post #1,723 of 1,779
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Nice write-up Palmfish.  Too bad the 5LE's weren't burned in and missed out on the fun.  It would've been nice to include it in the mix and see how it compared against the others.  
 
Maybe I missed it, but what was the output power of the mixing board?  Just wondering how much power the HE-500's were getting.
 
What's the HP out of your Carver like?  Is it a dedicated HP out using it's own circuit, or is it derived directly from the main amp using resistors?

 
I wanted to include the 5LE's in the listening, but there was no point. The sound quality just isn't there. Maybe I just don't like planar headphones, or maybe they need more breaking in. I don't believe that breaking in headphones makes a big difference (or any difference) in sound quality (I haven't detected any changes in the HE-500's), but I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and see them through.
 
I don't know the specs of the mixing board, and unfortunately I don't remember the make and model number either. I remember not recognizing the name of the manufacturer, and my friend told me it was a company subsequently bought by Mackie. I just googled Mackie headphone mixers and the photos of the HMX-56 strongly resemble the mixer he had. A check on Mackie's website puts the HMX-56 at 100mW @ 1% THD (1kHz) with all channels driven, but I can't confirm that these numbers apply to the mixer we used. I can say that when we were level matching the headphones, we plotted and overlayed their frequency response (with pink noise) and measured no distortion at 75dB. Listening never exceeded 85dB, which even for the HE-500 only requires 1mW.
 
Like most 80's vintage amps, the headphone jack is powered off the main amp. I can't find the value of the resistors on the schematic diagram I downloaded.
 
Aug 19, 2012 at 9:52 PM Post #1,724 of 1,779
Here are some of the measurements we took while level matching the headphones. I have more with the HD 600 and D2000 if anyone is interested.
 
HE-500 (brown trace) and D7000 (green trace):

 
 
My HE-500 and my friend's HE-500:

 

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