[Oof Oink]

Makes me wonder if it's all about driver tuning, and not the quantity of drivers one is able to stuff in a housing...

I haven't yet heard the RE-400 (though I'd like to), but I have owned the Etymotic and PFE earphones. Both attest to the above statement.

 

[tinyman392]

Quote:

The RE-400 may as well be my favorite IEM to date. It's one of the only IEMs I haven't had to use EQ on.
 
And they did this for $99?! Makes me wonder if it's all about driver tuning, and not the quantity of drivers one is able to stuff in a housing...

 
I've always been an advocate for tuning over driver count.  If you can make a single driver do everything you need it to do (Phonak, Etymotic, HiFiMan, etc.), then why not do it?  I have no problem with that.  Keep this in mind, a well tuned driver will always sound good.  Having more drivers is for nil if they're not tuned right  

 

[audionewbi]

That is a very good point, I have recently falling inlove with single driver BA. I honestly do not look at multiple BA IEM anymore. If companies are having a hard time tuning one driver chances are they will probably mess up the cross-over.
 
But than again they can always say ' we did not tune the driver poorly, it is our own house tuning, we follow a different philosophy'.
 
I have been really interested in single BA and dual BA IEM. I think the highest I will go probably be a dual BA from now on.
Quote:

 
I've always been an advocate for tuning over driver count.  If you can make a single driver do everything you need it to do (Phonak, Etymotic, HiFiMan, etc.), then why not do it?  I have no problem with that.  Keep this in mind, a well tuned driver will always sound good.  Having more drivers is for nil if they're not tuned right  

 

[tinyman392]

Quote:

That is a very good point, I have recently falling inlove with single driver BA. I honestly do not look at multiple BA IEM anymore. If companies are having a hard time tuning one driver chances are they will probably mess up the cross-over.
 
But than again they can always say ' we did not tune the driver poorly, it is our own house tuning, we follow a different philosophy'.
 
I have been really interested in single BA and dual BA IEM. I think the highest I will go probably be a dual BA from now on.

 
If done right, multi-driver IEMs can sound great.  I've got a deep respect for many multi-driver IEMs.  The thing is, the thing has to be tuned properly, or everything goes out the window (you can also screw up tuning a single-driver IEM ). 

 

[audionewbi]

agreed, but single driver tuning is easier just because of the fact it is one. I still believe a good dynamic can give a much more pleasant musical experience than BA, however BA has so many more advantages that sadly stops manufactories from looking into dynamic drivers for IEM. 
Quote:

 
If done right, multi-driver IEMs can sound great.  I've got a deep respect for many multi-driver IEMs.  The thing is, the thing has to be tuned properly, or everything goes out the window (you can also screw up tuning a single-driver IEM ). 

 

[tinyman392]

Quote:

agreed, but single driver tuning is easier just because of the fact it is one. I still believe a good dynamic can give a much more pleasant musical experience than BA, however BA has so many more advantages that sadly stops manufactories from looking into dynamic drivers for IEM. 

 
There are reasons to go both directions.  One of the philosophies behind using multi-BAs is that each BA can be targeted towards a specific frequency.  So instead of having to tune a single driver to work perfectly over 20 kHz, we can tune one driver to work from 20-250, another for 250-4k, and another for 4k-20k.  Tuning things over a smaller bandwidth can allow for more precision as opposed to tuning a single driver over the full frequency. 
 
I personally wouldn't know which approach is better, or easier, or creates a better output.  There are the two philosophies out there though

 

[audionewbi]

While that i true in order for one to know the difference between a good tuned single BA and a good tuned multiple BA they must have a perfect sonic memory. The magic for all IEM, and that is based on my humble experience, is if it is tuned nicely and one spends enough time with it our brain will not be able to able to tell us what exactly this lack or doesnt lack compared to other IEM without doing proper A/B testing which on its own is another hard task to get right.
 
Quote:

 
There are reasons to go both directions.  One of the philosophies behind using multi-BAs is that each BA can be targeted towards a specific frequency.  So instead of having to tune a single driver to work perfectly over 20 kHz, we can tune one driver to work from 20-250, another for 250-4k, and another for 4k-20k.  Tuning things over a smaller bandwidth can allow for more precision as opposed to tuning a single driver over the full frequency. 
 
I personally wouldn't know which approach is better, or easier, or creates a better output.  There are the two philosophies out there though

 

[tinyman392]

Quote:

While that i true in order for one to know the difference between a good tuned single BA and a good tuned multiple BA they must have a perfect sonic memory. The magic for all IEM, and that is based on my humble experience, is if it is tuned nicely and one spends enough time with it our brain will not be able to able to tell us what exactly this lack or doesnt lack compared to other IEM without doing proper A/B testing which on its own is another hard task to get right.
 

 
If you're brain has adjusted to to multiple IEMs, you'll be able to tell differences without a proper A/B.  The A/B will always show a little more and be a lot more direct though.  This is normally due to signature differences.  If the signatures are the same (note, not just similar, but really the same signature; EG: Etymotic vs Phonak, Brainwavz B2 vs Fischer Audio DBA-02, etc), then yes, everything you stated will hold for sure. 
 
I can tell you today I was going around with the Westone W4s and I missed a few things my UE 900s lacked.  The other day I was using the 4.Ai and missed what my W4's had   Then I go to the UE 900s and do hear its weaknesses as well (which neither the W4 or 4.Ai had ). 

 

[audionewbi]

I think we will remember at best whether an IEM is warm, analytic, cold etc only if we had the chance to listen to a large collection of IEM, beside that I think all we are relying on is our sonic memory which is very subjective and varies across all ears. But you are right , I forgot that my IEM all share similar signature which are all on the bright side. 
 
Quote:

 
If you're brain has adjusted to to multiple IEMs, you'll be able to tell differences without a proper A/B.  The A/B will always show a little more and be a lot more direct though.  This is normally due to signature differences.  If the signatures are the same (note, not just similar, but really the same signature; EG: Etymotic vs Phonak, Brainwavz B2 vs Fischer Audio DBA-02, etc), then yes, everything you stated will hold for sure. 
 
I can tell you today I was going around with the Westone W4s and I missed a few things my UE 900s lacked.  The other day I was using the 4.Ai and missed what my W4's had   Then I go to the UE 900s and do hear its weaknesses as well (which neither the W4 or 4.Ai had ). 

 

[tinyman392]

Quote:

I think we will remember at best whether an IEM is warm, analytic, cold etc only if we had the chance to listen to a large collection of IEM, beside that I think all we are relying on is our sonic memory which is very subjective and varies across all ears. But you are right , I forgot that my IEM all share similar signature which are all on the bright side. 
 

 
Definitely all true for sure.  Memories tend to remove aspects of what we remember with time; they loose their vividness.  It's probably the reason why an A/B brings out a little more than a comparison from memory. 

 

[steveting99]

Quote:

I would not be surprised if the RE600 has better sound quality over the HE400. Keep in mind, the HE400 is the most colored in the HiFiMAN line in terms of frequency response; however, some people want that type of fun sound, especially at the price point. It's very strong on the technical side of things (such as speed and planar bass); but I am convinced the RE600 will end up being a better audiophile buy.
 
As for initial reports, it seems that the closest thing the RE600 would sound like in the current headphone line would be the HE500. Neutral-warm and more intimate than expansive. Let's wait and see.. err, hear!

 
Will wait for impressions of the RE-600, I can be a patient person ...

 
Interesting that you think a single dynamic driver IEM can compete and go toe-to-toe with a full size open back ortho-dynamic planar magnetic headphone. There are certain sound characteristics that open back headphones have and are advantageous. Note that there's a massive thread open for the HE-400 and the vast majority of owners are pleased and impressed with it's sound characteristics.

 I would expect no less for the RE-600 if it is that good. 

 
Steve

 

[nicolasmasset]

Hi guys,
 
I'm new here at the forum but have been recently reading alot to buy a new pair of iem's and finally settled for the re-400's as an upgrade from my old nuforce ne-7m's.
I'm listening to 256 mp3's on my iphone 3gs, as that's just how my setup for travelling is. I'm using my old nuforce medium silicone tips with seem to give me a good seal. Pushing them in deeper looses the seal and screws up the sound. Here are my impressions:
 
So comparing the two, I can say that for the re-400's:
- mids are way nicer, not muddy at all like the old nuforces.
- instrument separation is of course a huge difference! Never experienced this on an iem before. Never realised what i was missing either lol.
- highs extend nicely, sometimes a bit too much for my tastes on some sources, but when they're mixed properly, they're stellar. I'm generally not much of a treble guy, detail is nice, but as so much music is mixed too bright these days, I sometimes prefer a slight roll off. Kings of leon's cymbals are just wonderfully alive!
- my biggest gripe with them is the bass. Some sources have enough, but most don't. I'm just used to a bit more. They're just generally not vibey in the low end. So I end up turning up the volume to get it, but it ends up making the mids and highs too much, or maybe it's the detail of everything that I'm not used to at loud volumes. I listen to everything from rock to bon iver to edm.
 
So right now I'm kindof loving them on some music, but kindof doubting them on others. That's probably their nature aswell, what goes in goes out.
But in any case I was wondering if there was anything I could do to make them a bit fuller and louder in the bass?
 
I've read things about modding them, taking stuff out of them (is it hard to do?)? Or different tips (comply 400's?) or maybe a fiio E11amp with the bass switch? Although I'd rather avoid carrying around another device if i can help it. I just downloaded the EQu app for ios to see if that helps. It actually gives me what i want when i raise a notch around the 65hz region, but it is a bit buggy and I'd rather use the ipod app for convenience. It's also alot less loud than the ipod app. And separation and width suffer i think.
 
Or maybe I just need some other iem's? GR07 keep popping up? But I sometimes read about some harshness with them?
 
Kind regards and thanks to anybody who can chime in..
 
Nicolas

 

[dleblanc343]

Quote:

 
Will wait for impressions of the RE-600, I can be a patient person ...

 
Interesting that you think a single dynamic driver IEM can compete and go toe-to-toe with a full size open back ortho-dynamic planar magnetic headphone. There are certain sound characteristics that open back headphones have and are advantageous. Note that there's a massive thread open for the HE-400 and the vast majority of owners are pleased and impressed with it's sound characteristics.

 I would expect no less for the RE-600 if it is that good. 

 
Steve

Well the Sennheiser IE800's are single driver iem's that are fantastic in terms of technicalities and frequency extension. It may be colored sounding, but the implementation and research into the drivers really turned out to be impressive otherwise.
 
HiFiMAN can definitely make lower-budget but competitive product.

 

[IAmSoCheap]

 
The Latest Photo of RE600
 
http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=24377796128

 

[ClieOS]

Those look like the old version actually.