[justsomesonyfan]

383mW on balance is absolutely inacceptable. I'm out.
Thanks everyone

it is VERY acceptable.

Numbers aren't everything on an amp, unless you want to drive some hard to drive open back full sized planars with this? in which case you should probably just get a desktop rig, because I can't see anyone using hard to drive full sized headphones outside.

considering this is a PORTABLE device, probably should be paired with PORTABLE gear, usually iems, and headphones which are usually made with less power in mind.

Even when you write "hard to drive headphones" on google you either get open back headphones, huge closed backs, or huge open backs.

The Ibasso dx320 has 1.2W@32ohms and to me that didn't bring anything of significant value over the wm1a which has 125mw@32ohms.

Maybe if I'd use a susvara? I don't know, I don't really care.

This thread has been plagued by disappointment ever since the power output has been released, it is honestly not a bad move imo, not only can it let hiby focus on quality over quantity, I assume it will also help with battery life.

"383 is absolutely inacceptable" how dare hiby not shove 2W@32ohms on this 800 usd device? how dare they not stand up to MY standards?

even though dual akm4499ex + class A is already very, very impressive, and all this for 800 usd, not even breaking 1k, the other ak4499ex dap is the sp3000, it doesn't have class A. do you know it's price?

 

[donkashyap]

"383 is absolutely inacceptable" how dare hiby not shove 2W@32ohms on this 800 usd device? how dare they not stand up to MY standards?

It’s not our standards we are comparing it to just the previous GEN of their own DAPs. Other 800$ like the M6U have 700+ mW. The R6 “pro” have less than the normal R6 now which was already reduced a lot. But the r6 went lower in price unlike the R6 pro which is coming out at a higher price than the R6 pro 1st gen.

100$ Dongles now give 280mW power. Someone spending much more(8x nearly)in a dap is bound to expect more.

 

[jsmiller58]

it is VERY acceptable.

Numbers aren't everything on an amp, unless you want to drive some hard to drive open back full sized planars with this? in which case you should probably just get a desktop rig, because I can't see anyone using hard to drive full sized headphones outside.

considering this is a PORTABLE device, probably should be paired with PORTABLE gear, usually iems, and headphones which are usually made with less power in mind.

Even when you write "hard to drive headphones" on google you either get open back headphones, huge closed backs, or huge open backs.

The Ibasso dx320 has 1.2W@32ohms and to me that didn't bring anything of significant value over the wm1a which has 125mw@32ohms.

Maybe if I'd use a susvara? I don't know, I don't really care.

This thread has been plagued by disappointment ever since the power output has been released, it is honestly not a bad move imo, not only can it let hiby focus on quality over quantity, I assume it will also help with battery life.

"383 is absolutely inacceptable" how dare hiby not shove 2W@32ohms on this 800 usd device? how dare they not stand up to MY standards?

even though dual akm4499ex + class A is already very, very impressive, and all this for 800 usd, not even breaking 1k, the other ak4499ex dap is the sp3000, it doesn't have class A. do you know it's price?

I think everyone is looking for what they want and need, even if it is only what they think they want and need. In the end I do suspect that people willing to lay out their money have a bit of a right to be demanding. Of corse, HiBy can make whatever products they want, and either consumers buy or don’t buy. It isn’t personal either way.

As to me, I don’t expect to drive very demanding headphones from a DAP. But, I would like to be future proofed just in case, and I really was always happy to have the 750mW on tap my old R6 Pro provided, though I seldom needed it. But, the new DAP’s 383mW does seem for me to be a bit of a non-starter, so I am almost certain to not purchase this DAP now, though I may sit on the fence for a little bit longer.

But, truly, HiBy’s decision does seem strange. But, they have the right to make whatever they want to make, and consumers are free to buy, or not buy.

 

[justsomesonyfan]

I think everyone is looking for what they want and need, even if it is only what they think they want and need. In the end I do suspect that people willing to lay out their money have a bit of a right to be demanding. Of corse, HiBy can make whatever products they want, and either consumers buy or don’t buy. It isn’t personal either way.

As to me, I don’t expect to drive very demanding headphones from a DAP. But, I would like to be future proofed just in case, and I really was always happy to have the 750mW on tap my old R6 Pro provided, though I seldom needed it. But, the new DAP’s 383mW does seem for me to be a bit of a non-starter, so I am almost certain to not purchase this DAP now, though I may sit on the fence for a little bit longer.

But, truly, HiBy’s decision does seem strange. But, they have the right to make whatever they want to make, and consumers are free to buy, or not buy.

That is a much more fair arguement, much better written out, I will argue that numbers aren't everything, and that there's a chance that these 383mw will drive your harder gear stronger or better than the previous 750, just because of hearing what the wm1a is capable of with less than a tenth of the competition in terms of pure power.

that being said! I would argue that it is fairly future proof due to the line out, atleast for me, I see a good line out as a way of saying "do you REALLY want this to drive your susvara? alright, stack it, it's clean and will give good results"

 

[jsmiller58]

Well, if I want to stack it I could hook it to my Topping G5 for on the go, but if I’m going to stack I may just as well consider stacking my G5 with the much less expensive HiBy R6III…

 

[justsomesonyfan]

Well, if I want to stack it I could hook it to my Topping G5 for on the go, but if I’m going to stack I may just as well consider stacking my G5 with the much less expensive HiBy R6III…

then you'll be getting a dual ES9038Q2M instead of the flagship ak4499ex pros and cons

 

[donkashyap]

Well, if I want to stack it I could hook it to my Topping G5 for on the go, but if I’m going to stack I may just as well consider stacking my G5 with the much less expensive HiBy R6III…

If you’re gonna stack a G5 you’re better off doing it with the hiby R2 or Shanling M0 pro why carry so much bulk.

 

[justsomesonyfan]

If you’re gonna stack a G5 you’re better off doing it with the hiby R2 or Shanling M0 pro why carry so much bulk.

there's also the option not to stack it at all, since it's a dac/amp

 

[justsomesonyfan]

also, when I mentioned stack, I meant for a stationary system, stacking on the go for extra power goes back to one of my points that you're not going to need extra power for gear that's meant to be portable.

 

[Joe Bloggs]

Yeah I think they want to upsell people to the higher end line for more power. The r6 also got reduced power in the R6 III. Probably cause the RS6 is 600mW.

According to the Chinese / Hong Kong sales literature (which is also news to me) they are speaking of "quality over quantity" and actually touting the reduction in output power as a selling point, implying that the noise floor etc. will be better. This is not as strange as it seems.

The noise floor WILL be better. A LOT better. The S/N ratio will improve thanks to the flagship AK4499EXx2 8-way DAC implementation (by a few dB compared to previous models, maybe), but the actual noise floor will go down by leaps and bounds thanks to the reduction in output power. All things being equal, the more powerful an amp is the worse it is for powering one of those high-end multi-BA IEMs, because while a high end amp output may have astronomical S/N ratios, this is only attained at maximum gain and volume. As required gain and volume goes down, S/N ratio goes down almost in lockstep. If you have any IEMs where you hear any hiss on any DAP's output, well, there's a good chance that DAP's output power is too much for the IEMs.

And, yes, that means the SE output may have been better than the balanced output for a lot of people in the past.

In the past I have always shook my head when people would "upgrade" to balanced cables on their kilobuck IEMs, plug them in to DAPs where the output power (and at the risk of oversimplification, hence the noise floor) is like 4x, hear tons of hiss and put up a brave face saying it still sounds better. Well, no more.

We are simply optimizing our products to match what we perceive to be the kind of mobile earphones people are spending the most money on.

People tend to think that a low power amp doesn't give "enough control" to hard-to-drive headphones even if there's enough volume.

If a pair of headphones are "hard to drive" because of high impedance, this simply is not an issue. If an amp didn't have enough power to drive high-Z headphones, this would simply come in the form of not enough voltage swing, which is basically a fancy way to say that you'd run out of volume knob.

If a pair of headphones are "hard to drive" rather because of high current requirement (at low impedance), well, our new devices are designed to meet those needs. And have low OI to increase the damping factor. But such high current, low OI etc. design don't necessarily manifest in a huge output number at 32 or even 16 ohms. It may also come in the form of extra peak power rather than RMS power at low impedances.

 

[justsomesonyfan]

According to the Chinese / Hong Kong sales literature (which is also news to me) they are speaking of "quality over quantity" and actually touting the reduction in output power as a selling point, implying that the noise floor etc. will be better. This is not as strange as it seems.

The noise floor WILL be better. A LOT better. The S/N ratio will improve thanks to the flagship AK4499EXx2 8-way DAC implementation (by a few dB compared to previous models, maybe), but the actual noise floor will go down by leaps and bounds thanks to the reduction in output power. All things being equal, the more powerful an amp is the worse it is for powering one of those high-end multi-BA IEMs, because while a high end amp output may have astronomical S/N ratios, this is only attained at maximum gain and volume. As required gain and volume goes down, S/N ratio goes down almost in lockstep. If you have any IEMs where you hear any hiss on any DAP's output, well, that DAP's output power is too much for the IEMs.

And, yes, that means the SE output may have been better than the balanced output for a lot of people in the past.

In the past I have always shook my head when people would "upgrade" to balanced cables on their kilobuck IEMs, plug them in to DAPs where the output power (and at the risk of oversimplification, hence the noise floor) is like 4x, hear tons of hiss and put up a brave face saying it still sounds better. Well, no more.

We are simply optimizing our products to match what we perceive to be the kind of mobile earphones people are spending the most money on.

People tend to think that a low power amp doesn't give "enough control" to hard-to-drive headphones even if there's enough volume.

If a pair of headphones are "hard to drive" because of high impedance, this simply is not an issue. If an amp didn't have enough power to drive high-Z headphones, this would simply come in the form of not enough voltage swing, which is basically a fancy way to say that you'd run out of volume knob.

If a pair of headphones are "hard to drive" rather because of high current requirement (at low impedance), well, our new devices are designed to meet those needs. And have low OI to increase the damping factor. But such high current, low OI etc. design don't necessarily manifest in a huge output number at 32 or even 16 ohms. It may also come in the form of extra peak power rather than RMS power at low impedances.

will add: I practically never go above 60-65 on high gain on the wm1a with my iems /headphones, one of my iems being a dual planar, single dd iem, in other words, a rather power hungry iem

 

[bden59]

QP2R specs:
Unbalanced 1.8 Vrms / Balanced 3.6 Vrms
Unbalanced RL=32Ω，Pout=38mW;
RL=300Ω, Pout=9mW
Balanced RL=32Ω，Pout=70mW;
RL=300Ω, Pout=38mW

And Focal included this DAP in their Utopia bundle. So, the numbers aren't everything.

 

[zeroshiki]

Battery life? Anyone know of ths r6pro ii battery life? Anyone on canjam sg can help ask hiby people maybe? I am very interested in getting one with the early bird pre order discount

 

[jsmiller58]

According to the Chinese / Hong Kong sales literature (which is also news to me) they are speaking of "quality over quantity" and actually touting the reduction in output power as a selling point, implying that the noise floor etc. will be better. This is not as strange as it seems.

The noise floor WILL be better. A LOT better. The S/N ratio will improve thanks to the flagship AK4499EXx2 8-way DAC implementation (by a few dB compared to previous models, maybe), but the actual noise floor will go down by leaps and bounds thanks to the reduction in output power. All things being equal, the more powerful an amp is the worse it is for powering one of those high-end multi-BA IEMs, because while a high end amp output may have astronomical S/N ratios, this is only attained at maximum gain and volume. As required gain and volume goes down, S/N ratio goes down almost in lockstep. If you have any IEMs where you hear any hiss on any DAP's output, well, there's a good chance that DAP's output power is too much for the IEMs.

And, yes, that means the SE output may have been better than the balanced output for a lot of people in the past.

In the past I have always shook my head when people would "upgrade" to balanced cables on their kilobuck IEMs, plug them in to DAPs where the output power (and at the risk of oversimplification, hence the noise floor) is like 4x, hear tons of hiss and put up a brave face saying it still sounds better. Well, no more.

We are simply optimizing our products to match what we perceive to be the kind of mobile earphones people are spending the most money on.

People tend to think that a low power amp doesn't give "enough control" to hard-to-drive headphones even if there's enough volume.

If a pair of headphones are "hard to drive" because of high impedance, this simply is not an issue. If an amp didn't have enough power to drive high-Z headphones, this would simply come in the form of not enough voltage swing, which is basically a fancy way to say that you'd run out of volume knob.

If a pair of headphones are "hard to drive" rather because of high current requirement (at low impedance), well, our new devices are designed to meet those needs. And have low OI to increase the damping factor. But such high current, low OI etc. design don't necessarily manifest in a huge output number at 32 or even 16 ohms. It may also come in the form of extra peak power rather than RMS power at low impedances.

@Joe Bloggs you make some very good points. I will admit that my R6 Pro hisses like a bag of snakes with sensitive IEMs and that has 750mW of power on tap, so if reducing power is the price to pay to drive sensitive IEMs without annoying hiss that would be a reasonable tradeoff. But HiBy is going to have a bit of a marketing challenge, regardless of the merits of its decision.

I only have one DAP, so I lack other data points. I guess the question is to the owners of other powerful DAPs… Do you find any correlation between output power and noise floor / amount of hiss with sensitive IEMs or headphones?

 

[Joe Bloggs]

First time posting a thread here I think, hopefully right place/ all good.

I was hoping to learn more on the "Hiby R6 Pro Gen2", other than confirming it's existence. All I could find was pre pre-order listings, with only information on colours (Black/ Purple/ Blue) and a few specs: SD 665, AK DAC & Android 12.

Before anyone suggests it, yes - I did ask ChatGPT, it was too optimistic lol!

But seriously, anyone know of more information, even if unconfirmed or rumours? Trying to get a DAP to keep long-term as a solid source for min 4-5 years. Hopefully can order it by mid-end of April this year to ideally get by June/ July.

I'm in the UK, so the NW1AM2 is off the table and the N6ii is 1-2 years from extinction in android terms. Budget is around £1200/ $1400, and unfortunately there is not a whole lot with both top tier sq and durability in this segment. The new ZX707 is good, but again volume cap and import duties/ hassle means I'd rather look for an alternative first. A lot of launches like the new Hiby R6 Gen 3 are good for the budget tier, lower price retail than previous edition. Hopefully that translates into a bigger push for better performance in the mid-tier segment. As nothing is filling the gap in this market, really pushing the bar. Here is to hoping it at least beats out the Hiby RS6 - from word of mouth, it explores a different flavour to sound but the R2R tech is expensive and it sacrifices a bit from the RS8, so whilst the RS8 is the biggest boy in the market, the RS6 in a vacuum is great but in open market, the R2R tech pushes it's price above what performance dictates. Before you come at with me with torches - that's just what I have heard from word of mouth, not my view.

If anyone knows anything more on the new R6 pro, I'm all ears! Even if it's confirmation of Q1/Q2 (H1 launch date), or if it's more of an end of 23 launch, suggestions for a better DAP either currently available or launching soon would be helpful

Thanks!

We're currently looking at worldwide preorders early April and shipping sometime in April as well.