[Focker]

Quote:

She was doing that all the way on the street, hell, how I wish to crush her stupid face

 
 

 
LOL

 

[obobskivich]

You guys are making me want to compare the PS500 to the RS-1; to see what the PS500 offers. I agree with the "the bagel series are very different" summaries too (and I've only heard the pre-i GSK) - like Focker said, diminishing returns, and slight differences, not massive improvements. They look cool though!

As far as outside hearing protection: Etyplugs.

 

[pcf]

Quote:

Two things:  I've read where the soundstage is very narrow on the LCD3.  Can you comment?  Also, which revision should he buy?  If history is any judge, the ortho manufacturers seem to take a while to sort things out.  I hated it when, after I bought the LCD2, I discovered it was really a rev1.  Now I think there's a rev3 already, like within a year or so.  Do you think the LCD3 will be subject to these frequent changes or is it really a rev4 of the LCD2?  I wonder about such things.  

Other headphones manufacturers do the same thing- rushing out product before they are ready, making small changes; fixes etc...
Audeze is not perfect in that regard but seems to get a pass from this forum because it is a small company. I bought the LCD rev1 and while I was still getting used to it, they introduced the new cable (extra charge); the leather headband and later on Rev2. It got to a point where you don't want to get their latest and greatest products knowing that a fix is likely to be just round the corner.
I am a sucker for small independent cottage industry companies like Audeze and would love to see them beat the big boys. They do really need to address this issue even though it will not be easy. Like I said before though, there are other companies that have the same problems. Grado would bring up something new in appearance without notice. It just makes you wonder if they sound different to the old models too.

 

[Gwarmi]

 Just the other day I decided to battle out the LCD3 versus the PS1000 down at my local audio joint..
 
 Quality gear all round on offer, an Audio-gd Reference 10.2 - RSA Dark Star for the LCD3 and a range of different sources
 ranging from a Luxman D06 CD player to a Woo WTP transport (Rega or Burson DAC running the show behind that)
 
 Playing some best of Marvin Gaye - I just could not get my head around the LCD's, so much detail from the mids
 forward was lost in translation somewhere along the line 

 
 I certainly don't wish to be perceived as an Audeze basher, I am more so eternally curious to understand the
 divide with these cans because there are some truly polarized opinions out there regarding imaging, sound stage
 and faithful instrument reproduction.
 
 The other glaring issue being that these LCD3's have been out for a long time - we are half way into 2012
 and as I mentioned a few months back - where are the accolades for these magnetic planars from serious
 Hi-Fi publications?
 
 
 
 That's right - not much to see here folks.
 
 Again, I cannot reiterate strongly enough - I'm not looking to start an LCD3 flame war like some sort of Head-Fi pyromaniac, rather I beckon
 other Head-Fiers to think outside of the box and discuss why this might be so?. Hi-Fi is a big world and from my point of view
 - the LCD3 and even the LCD2 remain sacred cows largely in one place - Head-Fi - that's it.
 
 No tech mags do not count 

 

[LCfiner]

Quote:

IIRC, the treble on the rev1 was shelved quite a bit.  Then they saw the error of their ways.  I remember many a post defending that extreme shelving of the rev1.  Now, not so much.  
 
I appreciate your defense of Audez'e.  I hope you appreciate by fanman enthusiasm for the high end Grados.  I know of two headphone acquaintances (NOT Grado fans) who have dropped the Audez'e in favor of the HD-800's with, of course, super expensive amps.  I won't be going there but it does make you wonder.  
 
Yeah, I don't consider the lack of press on the LCD3 to be of any significance although I wish there were some.  The problem with reviews is that they are all so dad-gummed positive.  It's the read between the lines that it requires.

 
Of course I appreciate Grado enthusiasm. I've had tons of grados and enjoyed them all (some I merely "liked", others I thought were amazing). if it wasn't for the existence of the Magnum, I would own either an RS1 or a PS500 right now. And I consider the Magnum to be part of the Grado family.
 
As for my comments regarding the PS1000, what can I say. I like them but when I read comments about how they are so incredibly revealing or honest or whatnot, I gotta shake my head and say my piece. they are not totally faithful to the recording. And they have problems with accuracy at both extreme edges of the frequency section. So, yeah, I bring that up. I think it's important to note for something so expensive that is supposed to be accurate (at least if you read Grado's marketing materials). Their deviations from flat response go way beyond those seen on, for example, the LCD3, the HD800, the SR007, or the HE-5LE/ HE-500 from hifiman.
 
As for the HD800, I am getting a pair back today (owned them, then sold them last year. got this pair in a trade with the PS1000) and I'll be seeing how I respond to their more treble happy response when directly compared to the LCD3. maybe I'll want to keep the HD800. maybe not.

 

[Focker]

Here's Grado's approach right from the horse's mouth: Audiophiles are a demanding: lot. They want to hear all the nuances of music accurately. So, most high-quality headphone makers meticulously measure the acoustic response of their products-but not Grado Labs. It makes headphones that simply sound good to its owner, John Grado. Luckily for the small, Brooklyn, NY, company, they sound good to hi-fi equipment reviewers and customers, as well. (from Gradolabs.com)
 
 
It's plain as day that Grado doesn't focus on the measurements...they voice their headphones by ear - John Grado's ears. Grado fans are find with this, obviously, because we enjoy the end product. Going on endlessly about how they don't measure well is like be starting up a crusade against Mazda because my Mazda 3 doesn't have the torque or the 0-60 time of a Ferrari. That obviously wasn't the focus to begin with...so maybe I'm better served by finding another dead horse to beat. 

 

[Gwarmi]

 I really do hope that in this world of digital mastery, this thread continues to grow with a vinyl component.
 
 To echo Focker's comments (and to repeat myself 

) John not only uses his ears not measuring equipment
 to settle on his esoteric headphone voicing but also that Grado's do indeed sound best on wax.
 
 I had the pleasure of late to demo my PS1000 using an Antipodes music server which is pieced together
 out in New Zealand.
 
 
 
Now this thing blasted my laptop into oblivion. Not so much in terms of detail retrieval but more so
in the sense of space and the lowered noise floor - quiet passages remaining dark and silent, with
the use of a Woo Audio WA2 - the PS1000 was starting to project a sound stage that I always
hoped for in terms of my early expectations.
 
Thing is, I always come back to that simple $500 Pro-Ject carbon turn table - digital will always
be that for the simple reason that the analogue-to-digital (ADC) to digital-to-analogue (DAC)
process will never be perfect - bits are always lost. Fortunate enough to demo a well known recording
on both formats, you will note that there is an ease and sibilant free nature to vinyl that
is difficult (read: impossible) to replicate via digital media.
 
Perhaps as suggested a little while back this is the ultimate road to true Grado salvation Pick your
Grado headphone of choice but also choose your Grado LP cartridge..
 
And then....simply enjoy.
 
 

 

[bbophead]

Quote:

 I really do hope that in this world of digital mastery, this thread continues to grow with a vinyl component.
 
 To echo Focker's comments (and to repeat myself 

) John not only uses his ears not measuring equipment
 to settle on his esoteric headphone voicing but also that Grado's do indeed sound best on wax.
 
 I had the pleasure of late to demo my PS1000 using an Antipodes music server which is pieced together
 out in New Zealand.
 
 
 
Now this thing blasted my laptop into oblivion. Not so much in terms of detail retrieval but more so
in the sense of space and the lowered noise floor - quiet passages remaining dark and silent, with
the use of a Woo Audio WA2 - the PS1000 was starting to project a sound stage that I always
hoped for in terms of my early expectations.
 
Thing is, I always come back to that simple $500 Pro-Ject carbon turn table - digital will always
be that for the simple reason that the analogue-to-digital (ADC) to digital-to-analogue (DAC)
process will never be perfect - bits are always lost. Fortunate enough to demo a well known recording
on both formats, you will note that there is an ease and sibilant free nature to vinyl that
is difficult (read: impossible) to replicate via digital media.
 
Perhaps as suggested a little while back this is the ultimate road to true Grado salvation Pick your
Grado headphone of choice but also choose your Grado LP cartridge..
 
And then....simply enjoy.
 
 

I get it, you think they've mastered digital technology.  Just kidding.
 
I try not to listen to too much vinyl, it only makes me angry that so much has been lost.  
 
I say, enjoy the things that digital does best and be happy, don't worry.
 
When digital starts to sound like my Koetsu Onyx, I'll be there.

 

[KneelJung]

Quote:

 The other glaring issue being that these LCD3's have been out for a long time - we are half way into 2012
 and as I mentioned a few months back - where are the accolades for these magnetic planars from serious
 Hi-Fi publications?

 
I'm assuming you are referring to just the LCD's here and not planars in general. At any rate I think the founder of this club fell down the planar hole with a pair of Hifiman he300's. I'm aware of quite a few other Grado heads, even Grado modders who went Magnum, that are ortho heads now too, not necessarily LCD's but Hifimans and modded Fostex T50RP's. I find my modded T50's to be fuller, richer, warmer, lusher, and PRaTtier than my HF2's. In fact I think I could live happily ever after with just my modded T50, just sayin.

 

[Currawong]

Guys, just remember that this is the "Grado Fan Club" thread and so, I'd suggest it's not the place for talking about what one doesn't like about Grados after one has left the club, so to speak. 
 
Quote:

Quote:

Two things:  I've read where the soundstage is very narrow on the LCD3.  Can you comment?  Also, which revision should he buy?  If history is any judge, the ortho manufacturers seem to take a while to sort things out.  I hated it when, after I bought the LCD2, I discovered it was really a rev1.  Now I think there's a rev3 already, like within a year or so.  Do you think the LCD3 will be subject to these frequent changes or is it really a rev4 of the LCD2?  I wonder about such things.  

Other headphones manufacturers do the same thing- rushing out product before they are ready, making small changes; fixes etc...
Audeze is not perfect in that regard but seems to get a pass from this forum because it is a small company. I bought the LCD rev1 and while I was still getting used to it, they introduced the new cable (extra charge); the leather headband and later on Rev2. It got to a point where you don't want to get their latest and greatest products knowing that a fix is likely to be just round the corner.
I am a sucker for small independent cottage industry companies like Audeze and would love to see them beat the big boys. They do really need to address this issue even though it will not be easy. Like I said before though, there are other companies that have the same problems. Grado would bring up something new in appearance without notice. It just makes you wonder if they sound different to the old models too.

 
The difficulty with producing anything, whether it be physical or software is, at some point you have to decide to release what you have, and it will never be "perfect" from the start. Even if you've got good investors or sufficient money of your own (much rarer) to start a project, at some point you have to have sales flowing to show your product isn't vapourware. For both Hifiman and Audeze they were producing orthos for the first time, so had no idea what problems they would encounter. I just received my LCD-3s back (I was slow to send in my pair) and they are as refined as I expected them to be. 
 
Quote:

 I certainly don't wish to be perceived as an Audeze basher, I am more so eternally curious to understand the
 divide with these cans because there are some truly polarized opinions out there regarding imaging, sound stage
 and faithful instrument reproduction.

 
I'm somewhat of a Grado fan too -- since I heard the HF-1s in my rig a few years ago. I rather regret sending back my first Magnums actually, as they had the 325is frequency response but with more detail, which is what I wanted. I felt they brought me right into the music, being somewhat mid-forward, which worked perfectly for music such as Stevie Ray Vaughan, some of which I like. Some of my favourite moments listening have been with his music and headphones that bring how Stevie puts his entire being into every note make all the difference. Since I have a system that has no glare in the treble, I've done the 414 pad + bowls mod to my Magnums now to bring back some of this effect.
 
I have noticed quite a few headphones have, in their frequency response, something of a drop around 4 kHz. Since the 2-4 kHz range is important for many jazz and classical instruments, this can make them not sound as lively. The LCD-3s have this drop, so, as they ideally (IMO) need a very good amp for them to liven up, it is easy to make them (and the LCD-2s) sound unexciting.  I remember when I owned Audio Technica AD2000s, which are very similar in character to Grados in many respects (especially after doing the tube mod). They are so lively that listening later the Stax SR-009s felt like they were asleep!
 
So I'd say it is a combination of what one is used to, as well as the music and the gear. It's very easy to listening to a pair of headphones with one system and it sounds great, whereas in another system it sounds terrible. The first time I tried HF-1s was out of an older Benchmark DAC-1 directly and they were awful.

 

[bbophead]

 
I'm somewhat of a Grado fan too -- since I heard the HF-1s in my rig a few years ago. I rather regret sending back my first Magnums actually, as they had the 325is frequency response but with more detail, which is what I wanted. I felt they brought me right into the music, being somewhat mid-forward, which worked perfectly for music such as Stevie Ray Vaughan, some of which I like. Some of my favourite moments listening have been with his music and headphones that bring how Stevie puts his entire being into every note make all the difference. Since I have a system that has no glare in the treble, I've done the 414 pad + bowls mod to my Magnums now to bring back some of this effect.
 
I have noticed quite a few headphones have, in their frequency response, something of a drop around 4 kHz. Since the 2-4 kHz range is important for many jazz and classical instruments, this can make them not sound as lively. The LCD-3s have this drop, so, as they ideally (IMO) need a very good amp for them to liven up, it is easy to make them (and the LCD-2s) sound unexciting.  I remember when I owned Audio Technica AD2000s, which are very similar in character to Grados in many respects (especially after doing the tube mod). They are so lively that listening later the Stax SR-009s felt like they were asleep!
 
So I'd say it is a combination of what one is used to, as well as the music and the gear. It's very easy to listening to a pair of headphones with one system and it sounds great, whereas in another system it sounds terrible. The first time I tried HF-1s was out of an older Benchmark DAC-1 directly and they were awful.
 

What does the LCD3 have that is Grado-like?  Isn't there something they have in common that makes you like both?

 

[shimmer n roar]

Quote:

 
Of course I appreciate Grado enthusiasm. I've had tons of grados and enjoyed them all (some I merely "liked", others I thought were amazing). if it wasn't for the existence of the Magnum, I would own either an RS1 or a PS500 right now. And I consider the Magnum to be part of the Grado family.
 
As for my comments regarding the PS1000, what can I say. I like them but when I read comments about how they are so incredibly revealing or honest or whatnot, I gotta shake my head and say my piece. they are not totally faithful to the recording. And they have problems with accuracy at both extreme edges of the frequency section. So, yeah, I bring that up. I think it's important to note for something so expensive that is supposed to be accurate (at least if you read Grado's marketing materials). Their deviations from flat response go way beyond those seen on, for example, the LCD3, the HD800, the SR007, or the HE-5LE/ HE-500 from hifiman.
 
As for the HD800, I am getting a pair back today (owned them, then sold them last year. got this pair in a trade with the PS1000) and I'll be seeing how I respond to their more treble happy response when directly compared to the LCD3. maybe I'll want to keep the HD800. maybe not.

 
i had hoped that you might tire of making this argument after our lengthy debate in the ps1000 review thread.

 
Quote:

Here's Grado's approach right from the horse's mouth: Audiophiles are a demanding: lot. They want to hear all the nuances of music accurately. So, most high-quality headphone makers meticulously measure the acoustic response of their products-but not Grado Labs. It makes headphones that simply sound good to its owner, John Grado. Luckily for the small, Brooklyn, NY, company, they sound good to hi-fi equipment reviewers and customers, as well. (from Gradolabs.com)
 
 
It's plain as day that Grado doesn't focus on the measurements...they voice their headphones by ear - John Grado's ears. Grado fans are find with this, obviously, because we enjoy the end product. Going on endlessly about how they don't measure well is like be starting up a crusade against Mazda because my Mazda 3 doesn't have the torque or the 0-60 time of a Ferrari. That obviously wasn't the focus to begin with...so maybe I'm better served by finding another dead horse to beat. 

 
 i doubt very much that sennheiser and audeze relied exclusively on headphone measurements during the design process for the hd800 and lcd iterations.

 

[Gwarmi]

Quote:

 
I'm assuming you are referring to just the LCD's here and not planars in general. At any rate I think the founder of this club fell down the planar hole with a pair of Hifiman he300's. I'm aware of quite a few other Grado heads, even Grado modders who went Magnum, that are ortho heads now too, not necessarily LCD's but Hifimans and modded Fostex T50RP's. I find my modded T50's to be fuller, richer, warmer, lusher, and PRaTtier than my HF2's. In fact I think I could live happily ever after with just my modded T50, just sayin.

 
 That's right - to this day I am yet to try any HiFiMan unit so I'm keeping an open mind in respect to planars 

 
 As per my views a few posts back - I would probably buy the LCD2 in a heartbeat if my music tastes
 changed (hmmm unlikely for now) back to let's say 10 years ago when a lot of hip hop and ambient beats ruled
 my collection. These days I'm firmly stuck in acoustic, classical, big band classics and jazz.
 
 @Currawong
 
 Absolutely ~ I try to reserve judgement on any headphone requiring moderate to high amplification until I've seen
 at least 3 or more amps and sources, even then something like Ultrasone Edition #10 - (a can that surely rates
 as one of the most maligned in headphone history) can slip past and actually show some strengths if everything
 just comes together in perfect synergy inc. cables and the track itself.

 

[holleywood25]

Holy s***. My Grado/alessandro MS2's just came in today and I am BLOWN away. Rock never sounded this good. The midrange/guitar presence puts my Ultrasone's to shame. Grado may have its next new fan

 

[vaed]

Hey guys, I was wondering if this is a safe solution to my SR-60i's long cable? Just want to make sure I'm not doing any damage to the cable itself.