Grado Fan Club!
Dec 19, 2023 at 7:48 PM Post #63,511 of 65,804
I appreciate your openness, and willingness to visit this thread LOL. Hold on tight! But, I feel better about a reviewer if they consistently tell me what they like and dislike. I don't care what the masses like or dislike and hope that doesn't influence the review. I'm interested in what you like and why. We may disagree, but I can watch or read a review from someone, and overtime can align those views to mine. When a headphone, or gear is reviewed that I have, I can calibrate my likes/dislikes to the reviewer. Once calibrated, I can get an idea whether or not I may enjoy gear that they are reviewing for which I have no experience with. Just my thoughts

Leo
You should ideally get both from a review - both how it does for someone's individual preferences and an indication or prediction for how it may perform for everyone else. Or, ideally, which segment it might be for. We try to do that as best we can, and even in the case of the Grado reviews it's been indicated there may be some who enjoy it as well. I will say, there are other massive dealbreakers for me with Grado that has to do with the non-sound related aspects - like I'll stand by the statement that on-ear headphones are truly cursed. But... that's also just me. For people who love on-ear headphones or that style they should definitely know that I am ideologically opposed to the existence of such torture devices hahaha. I expect no sympathy here for that take of course.
 
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Dec 19, 2023 at 8:47 PM Post #63,512 of 65,804
I caved and ended up buying a used pair of RS2X from a member here (that maple wood just spoke to me :smiling_imp: ) so I'll soon be able to compare to the rs1x & other Grados I've owned.) Personally, I've found that, at least w/ the RS1X & RS2e, they were extremely bright when purchased new, but eventually settled into a much warmer (albeit still bright) punchy sound, which more than anything, I attribute to the L pads wearing in & softening over time. Personally, I've found the different pad types/conditions to be a HUGE contributer into how the Grados I've owned sound. When I first got the RS1x/RS2e, I was extremely close to returning them due to how bright they were, but I'm EXTREMELY glad I stuck with them as they eventually settled into being amongst my favorite headphones.
Congrats on the RS2x ..I think you'll be pleased 😀
 
Dec 19, 2023 at 9:06 PM Post #63,513 of 65,804
The thing is, this has nothing to do with my estimation, nor yours. As mentioned, we have decades of research in speakers and headphones to draw from to understand what people like for sound profiles, and the thing is - these studies corroborate one another.

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Apologies for the small text in the legend, but you can see there are multiple studies pointing to people on average having a preference for a bass to treble delta of approximately 10dB. Now, interestingly, the Harman research also includes a paper on segmentation that's worth reading that indicates the different preference groups (some like a brighter tilt, some like a warmer tilt). Unfortunately that paper is often missed and people over-focus on the target as a reflection of the largest segment, but I think you get the point.
Thanks for sharing your point of view openly.

All of us hear differently and while you may say many reviewers will share your opinion, I'm starting to wonder... Is it the age of these reviewers? The cadre of YouTube reviewers are still pretty young.

Part of what convinced me to try the "X" Generation of Grado were reviews by What HiFi, Steve Guttenberg, Brent Butterworth, and other more established reviewers as their reviews seem to match my personal taste far more than Headphone.com.

Like Grado says, 4ourEars!
 
Dec 19, 2023 at 9:22 PM Post #63,514 of 65,804
Thanks for sharing your point of view openly.

All of us hear differently and while you may say many reviewers will share your opinion, I'm starting to wonder... Is it the age of these reviewers? The cadre of YouTube reviewers are still pretty young.

Part of what convinced me to try the "X" Generation of Grado were reviews by What HiFi, Steve Guttenberg, Brent Butterworth, and other more established reviewers as their reviews seem to match my personal taste far more than Headphone.com.

Like Grado says, 4ourEars!

Age is very likely a factor as hearing tends to change as we age. Although... I'm 36, so not exactly young haha. There is a generational difference though for sure.
 
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Dec 19, 2023 at 9:28 PM Post #63,515 of 65,804
Recent headphone ranking on youtube
Immediately went to the final results, laughed at how Resolve couldn't spend $20 to listen to the Koss KSC75 and rank it, then moved on. Probably would've been F tier anyway because "muh on-ear" is bad.

I’ve got three options, all new, same price: RS1x/RS2x/GH4
Tried all three, bought the GH4 over the other two. The GH4 was the final refinement of the e-series sound. Eventually sold my Hemp which leaned towards the general tuning for the x-series sound.
 
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Dec 20, 2023 at 12:05 AM Post #63,517 of 65,804
I highly suspect everyone here are “old farts” with hearing loss because we love Grados. The Planars have great highs but for some reason I can’t hear them very well and my ears fatigue faster. I keep going back to my Grados shortly after. Maybe one day I’ll get the GS3000x to play with.
 
Dec 20, 2023 at 12:11 AM Post #63,518 of 65,804
I highly suspect everyone here are “old farts” with hearing loss because we love Grados. The Planars have great highs but for some reason I can’t hear them very well and my ears fatigue faster. I keep going back to my Grados shortly after. Maybe one day I’ll get the GS3000x to play with.
A great choice! Now, not all Grados have exaggerated highs. For me, these include: GH2 (limited edition: cocobolo), GH4 (limited edition: norwegian pine), Hemp, PS500e.
 
Dec 20, 2023 at 12:39 AM Post #63,519 of 65,804
I want to clarify a few things here since some folks seem to upset at the various criticism I've levelled at Grado headphones in various videos, and I want to provide a bit of context so there's no confusion as to where I'm coming from. And I don't expect this to be accepted by everyone, given this is a thread comprised of those who enjoy them and likely won't share my opinion on them, which is fine.


For headphone evaluations, when it comes to sound quality, we can say that at the very least there are three important variables that determine what 'good' is, and they are as follows:
  1. Individual anatomy (HRTF)
  2. How headphone behavior changes depending on the head that wears them (HpTF)
  3. Preference
I'm not saying these are the only factors, since there are certainly others such as harmonic distortion, acoustic Z, or even various design-related psychoacoustic effects. I'm saying at the very least we can comfortably point to these as being key factors when it comes to sound quality in headphones and what goes into whether or not people enjoy a given product.

So, along these dimensions, I've consistently found all Grados I've encountered to be uniquely horrible sounding to me. However, important to note is that if you change the individual or essentially the 'head' that's wearing them, all three of those factors are likely to change, to the point where I could in theory see how someone else might be able to enjoy them. I've said this in other places before, but we need to collectively stop treating headphones we experience as indications of 'the truth' about those products in all conditions, and instead recognize that this is just how they perform in the specific condition of the head that's wearing them. And, maybe this goes without saying, but our experiences are necessarily unique, largely based on these factors as well.

When doing an evaluation, it's important to consider not just how it sounds subjectively, but also how it's likely to be received by other people. There are countless examples of this consideration on our channel, where something might not be for me specifically but it still could get a recommendation. I feel reviewers have to balance this, since on the one hand we have to give a genuine subjective report of how something sounds (to a real human), but also recognize that we're not every human. We just have one perspective, with one set of ears with a specific preference. So we have to consider how it may perform for others.

Now, the reason why I can't in good conscience recommend them or endorse the purchase of them - without knowing the preferences of the individual - is because of how they perform objectively on industry standard equipment (and we use multiple rigs for precisely the above reasons), relative to what we know people prefer. Now, I'm not talking strictly about the Harman research here, but rather what's known to be preferred in speakers as well from multiple studies on this topic. And, based on the... literal decades of audio research, we can say that categorically, the Grado sound signature is likely to be more palatable for a particular niche than it is to be suitable for what most people like - at least for bass to treble delta. That does not mean that if you love Grados, your taste or preference is somehow inferior.

Of course I recognize that they have a cult following, here and in other places. But I think this is something you have to know is right for you - or at least have a general sense that this is the kind of sound signature you may be after.


To the other points about us being 'influencers' or dunking on stuff that isn't carried by Taron and the other folks who run the store, as he pointed out, we published content that was very critical of certain Grado headphones while they were still in stock. We've done this time and time again with products from other brands carried by the store as well, even going so far as to lose brands over our coverage of their products. We have the freedom to do critical or negative reviews on our platform, and in our view this is a better approach than operating within the traditional youtube economy. Our income is not tied to the sentiment in a review, freeing us from the incentive to gloss over the negatives or only do positive coverage. I've said this before but I feel youtube has become a gigantic hype machine given the monetization models built around affiliate links or paid-for reviews.

But, it's also understandable that we see this criticism from time to time from people who may not understand how we operate. People perhaps rightly look for incentives or reasons for our editorial judgments that might not align with what that person believes to be true.

And in that respect, I get it. It can be difficult to imagine the thing you love is so objectionable to someone else, and so I get the impulse to go looking for any possible nefarious explanation or motivation for why they may have said that. But I have to once again point out the three factors above, and this goes for all cases where people have differing opinions about products. In my view, those three variables are responsible for many disagreements about headphones, and when you fully understand those variables, the disagreement is also understood.

Beyond that, the only mandate we have for our channel is to say it like it is - how we genuinely feel about these products. You may disagree with our takes, and that's fine. We regularly disagree with one another! But I suggest that before jumping to various conclusions around incentives or motivations, consider that based on how these headphones measure on standard equipment, it should come as no surprise that they won't be for everyone. And... I feel it's worth voicing this even if it means raising the ire of those who love the product, and I'll be far more willing to take those knocks in the Grado community than compromise on my editorial integrity.
I think Grados are hard to review. In my opinon they are not A-B test cans. I just have to "sit-in" with them, use them for a couple of days (no other phone!). In my experience, if you are accustomed to the Grado sound almost everything else sound broken afterwards. Slow, muddy, emotionless. Funny thing is, after the swap the Grado also show is problem. So, jumping from one headphone to the other is very difficult with Grado. Not easy situation for a reviewer.

The other thing...after being 30 years in this hobby...the magic, the bonding with a gear happens (with me) at the unaware moments. Just simply by listening to music. No gear is new, no testing. Just listening to music. If I get goosebumps from the music, if I am awake at 2 am on a weekday a because I can not stop listening to music and if I am filled afterwards with the feeling of connection to the music, an almost spiritual thing...that's the real thing. And it is elusive. Now...most of the highly regarded headphones are not capable (for me) doing this. They may do the hifi kung-fu on a very high level but can not establish this unique connection to the music. For me this special ability defines and separetes hihg-end from hifi. And again...I do not know how you or other reviewers are having the chance to "test" this. To have the time to listen to every gear they get without review pressure.
 
Dec 20, 2023 at 12:52 AM Post #63,520 of 65,804
I just have to "sit-in" with them, use them for a couple of days (no other phone!). In my experience, if you are accustomed to the Grado sound almost everything else sound broken afterwards. Slow, muddy, emotionless. Funny thing is, after the swap the Grado also show is problem. So, jumping from one headphone to the other is very difficult with Grado.
Too my ears this happens with the swapping of any headphones.
As you mentioned--you have "use them for a couple of days".
 
Dec 20, 2023 at 1:03 AM Post #63,521 of 65,804
I highly suspect everyone here are “old farts” with hearing loss because we love Grados. The Planars have great highs but for some reason I can’t hear them very well and my ears fatigue faster. I keep going back to my Grados shortly after. Maybe one day I’ll get the GS3000x to play with.
Yeah that's me, and Ive has my fill of eq'ing to Harmon etc etc

Grados light up my music tastes and have more than enough bass
 
Dec 20, 2023 at 1:04 AM Post #63,522 of 65,804
Too my ears this happens with the swapping of any headphones.
As you mentioned--you have "use them for a couple of days".
The Raal SR1b wit the VM1a amp (count the dollars where are we now with price) was something I could love. But only this combination, the amp is really important. It had then two issues: the amp had noise (and not other combination had the magic) plus the Raal in this combination was ultimately to smooth. I missed the rawness of music after a couple of months. But this system had it's special moments.

My Verité Open (hard wood, stock sapele wood has for me too much reverb) has also magic with my Aries Cerat system. Please do not check the prices. It was just meh with the Pathos Inpol, somewhat good with the Tor Balanced, not a good match with the Trafomatic Head 2, dead fish with the Enleum 23R. System matching is everything.

Still, none of them can consistently reproduce this connection to the music as my Grados. Funny thing, I use an original battery RA-1 as an amp for my GS3000x. Not because I have to, but because it is simply the best sounding with it. Very open, dynamic, free sound. I do not understand either.
 
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Dec 20, 2023 at 2:48 AM Post #63,523 of 65,804
The Raal SR1b wit the VM1a amp (count the dollars where are we now with price) was something I could love. But only this combination, the amp is really important. It had then two issues: the amp had noise (and not other combination had the magic) plus the Raal in this combination was ultimately to smooth. I missed the rawness of music after a couple of months. But this system had it's special moments.

My Verité Open (hard wood, stock sapele wood has for me too much reverb) has also magic with my Aries Cerat system. Please do not check the prices. It was just meh with the Pathos Inpol, somewhat good with the Tor Balanced, not a good match with the Trafomatic Head 2, dead fish with the Enleum 23R. System matching is everything.

Still, none of them can consistently reproduce this connection to the music as my Grados. Funny thing, I use an original battery RA-1 as an amp for my GS3000x. Not because I have to, but because it is simply the best sounding with it. Very open, dynamic, free sound. I do not understand either.
Good amps for grado tend to share one common characteristic - high current output.
I've read the opamp in RA1 has this high output current so is corda jazz ff.
 
Dec 20, 2023 at 10:18 AM Post #63,525 of 65,804
One of the best songs/albums to listen on Grado headphones.


I love listening the greatfull dead on grado


The RSx-1 loves folk and is especially good on female vocals
 
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