[GreenBow]

DAC for Grado amp?

Anyone have a favorite small-footprint DAC only that will fit on top of my Joseph Grado HPA-1 amp (7" front to back, 5-3/4" left to right) that includes USB input? Needs to be better quality than my Sony VAIO desktop all-on-one PC, but not great.

I am now driving my amp from the headphone output of my desktop... looking for an improvement.

Right now the Schiit Modi 2, $99 with USB only input, at 3.5" front to back x 5" wide, seems a great candidate. Any others?

Thanks!

 
You could look at the Chord Hugo, or Chord Mojo. The Mojo is quite tiny.
 
If you are using optical or coaxial in you will have no issues. I use USB in and there is an issue with it sometimes missing the first second of a track. It's a long story but it's to do with the Mojo thinking it sees a change in sampling rate. It mutes a second while hardware synchronises. As long as sampling freq does not change then optical and coaxal are OK.
 
There are both portable and have a battery inside. However I use the Mojo as a desktop DAC. I leave it connected to a chager all the time. It's OK. Another long story, but if you want to see what others have worked out on this, see here. Third post in this thread. http://www.head-fi.org/t/784602/chord-mojo-the-official-thread-please-read-the-3rd-post
 
The Mojo is quite exceptional. Many folk consider at £400, it is the best sub £1000 DAC. Many say only the Chord 2Qute and the Mojo compete under the £1400 price tag of the Hugo.
 
(NB The Hugo TT is quite big.)

 

[wormsdriver]

^^^ I also use the Mojo and would recommend it, but I think he was looking for something more inexpensive...

 

[GreenBow]

@ruthieandjohn Thank you, I got your message via reputation point.
 
The issue with USB, i.e. playing files from PC can be got around by using the media app JRiver. It allows us to set s second's silence before playing a tack. Therefor it plays a second silence while the Mojo is hardware configuring. Then music plays as normal.
 
(The answer to your question is that sometimes the Mojo will play a whole album faultlessly. Sometimes it will skip mutes a second on the first track of an album, or when manually switching tracks. That is when not using JRiver's ability to insert silence.)
 
If you have a quick look at the third post in the thread I showed you, you will find everything really easy. You'll be able to quickly decide if your interesets lie with Chord. The person who started that thread monitors it everyday and grabs all relevant details and links them in the third post.
 
My hint with the Mojo is, use bitperfect files from a PC or smartphone, or tablet. Or run from a source like a CD player. The Mojo re-clocks all incoming signals with a built in clock, e.g at 44.1KHz. Thus negating jitter. 

 

[TomNC]

Longer cable have more impedance and also more capacitance due to parallel wires. If high frequencies are effected is caused of the higher capacitance of the cable! 

Side note: Some where telling that the "i" series where  a kind more controlled at high frequencies.
That was caused because the "i" phones used 8-conductor cable instead of 4, by doing this they lower the impedance to half and increase the capacitance of the cable!
Another "trick" is that if you accidently "stretch" the cable and break an internal conductor, your phones will still work since you still have "backup" set of conductors for each driver! 
Many people (including myself) had problem with the 4 conductor cable

Thanks for explanation. But I disagree that the i series have better control of trebles. At least the RS1i I used to have sounded too bright and fatiguing. Now the GH1 I have now sounds less bright. As compared to my other phones including PSB M4U 4, HD650/800(both modded), there is still a certain level of brightness and dryness in the highes. And using this extension cable further reduces the brightness, but it changes the other aspects of the sound too which I am not sure is desirable.

 

[ruthieandjohn]

Thanks @GreenBow , @wormsdriver ,  @lehoang15tuoi , @BobG55 , and @speedking for suggestions on tiny DACs for the USB output of my PC to feed my Grado.
 
You may have just given me the excuse I need to buy a (used) Chord Mojo or Hugo!  I had earlier tried to justify getting the Hugo to put under my iPhone in a stack, but decided it was too large.  Then I considered the Mojo, but its shape was wrong... only half the length and twice the thickness to stack with my phone.  So for that, I got the V-MODA VAMP VERZA with Metallo case.
 
But for my PC, I did a little experiment.  I used my Sony PHA-1 DAC/ amp on the USB output going into the Joseph Grado HPA-1 and compared the sound in my PS1000 to just hooking the PS1000 to the PC headphone jack.  This is not what I was looking for, as the Sony PHA-1 integrates an amp with the DAC and does not allow catching the signal between the DAC and amp -- hence, I am double amping it when I then send it to my Grado HPA-1.
 
Both sounded fabulous and I could not confidently discern a difference in just a couple  of iterations of comparison on a couple of songs.  Perhaps the sound card in the Sony VAIO is unusually good, so going with an external amp and DAC is not that much better.
 
I understand that the Chord Hugo and Chord Mojo are head and shoulders above the PHA-1, however, so they may make a difference.
 
Meanwhile, the music sounds so good through my PC -> PHA-1 -> Grado HPA-1 -> PS1000 that I cannot take the headphones off!

 

[joseph69]

There was no specific cut-out for the cable, it was just stuffed into the round hole where the headphone cable was coiled.

Thank you…I thought I was losing my mind!
Its been 4yrs since I bought my RS1i and I sold the extension cable after getting my first PS1K.
When I looked in my PS1K box and had seen the slot for both the HP/extension cable this threw me off.

 

[joseph69]

  I've read about an idea that the 15' extension cord can be use to make the Grado phones less bright to some users. I briefly tested this. To some extent, this worked---treble brightness decreased and the entire sound signature got warmer and thicker. I need more time to figure out whether this impression last. 
 
The theory behind this seems to the increase in impedance changes the sound signature.

This sounds very interesting, I'd like to hear your results after more time.

 

[krud484]

   
You could look at the Chord Hugo, or Chord Mojo. The Mojo is quite tiny.
 
If you are using optical or coaxial in you will have no issues. I use USB in and there is an issue with it sometimes missing the first second of a track. It's a long story but it's to do with the Mojo thinking it sees a change in sampling rate. It mutes a second while hardware synchronises. As long as sampling freq does not change then optical and coaxal are OK.
 
There are both portable and have a battery inside. However I use the Mojo as a desktop DAC. I leave it connected to a chager all the time. It's OK. Another long story, but if you want to see what others have worked out on this, see here. Third post in this thread. http://www.head-fi.org/t/784602/chord-mojo-the-official-thread-please-read-the-3rd-post
 
The Mojo is quite exceptional. Many folk consider at £400, it is the best sub £1000 DAC. Many say only the Chord 2Qute and the Mojo compete under the £1400 price tag of the Hugo.
 
(NB The Hugo TT is quite big.)

If the Mojo had an RCA out for a headphone amp, I'd be all over it! That hardware synchronization of the sample rate could be fixed depending on the software you use. I had that issue with foobar2000 where it had a latency hiccup when changing the sample rate. I use HQplayer and it doesn't have any of those problems whatsoever. In fact, in a recent update, the sample rate clock was improved to always match the right upsampling rate on the fly. I heard good thinks about JRiver in regard to the latency as well.
 
The thing that nixes the Mojo for me is the limited 128 DSD, and 384 kHz in upsampling. I'd much rather stick with the iFi Micro iDSD with its up to 512 DSD & 768 kHz in upsampling. I feel that what this iFi device is capable of puts it well over the $1000 range, yet it's only $500. What would put these two different DACs on the same playing field is if the Mojo had that RCA output. Here's hoping that in the future these brands both offer a DAC with balanced headphone input in that $500-600 range.

 

[lsh40]

The higher the number, the better... each row selects the winner (3 points), second place (2 points), and third place (1 point) in performing that particular feature (e.g. transparency).  Ties get a ?.5.   More detail in the post linked at the word "here" at the end of the first sentence.

Thanks for the help. I bought the JDS CMoy and will try to connect it with ef2a's usb dac feature.

 

[speedking]

Thanks for explanation. But I disagree that the i series have better control of trebles. At least the RS1i I used to have sounded too bright and fatiguing. Now the GH1 I have now sounds less bright.

Indeed the "i" driver are more bright and fatiguing to my ears too but that's the "concept" of the 8-conductor cable! I used to own many "i" series phones (60,80,125,225,rs1,gs1000) and after listening the HP1000 and the first era or John Grado phones (60,125,gs1000) I prefer them a lot more than the "i" !

 

[GreenBow]

  The thing that nixes the Mojo for me is the limited 128 DSD, and 384 kHz in upsampling. I'd much rather stick with the iFi Micro iDSD with its up to 512 DSD & 768 kHz in upsampling. I feel that what this iFi device is capable of puts it well over the $1000 range, yet it's only $500. What would put these two different DACs on the same playing field is if the Mojo had that RCA output. Here's hoping that in the future these brands both offer a DAC with balanced headphone input in that $500-600 range.

 
I think you may have mixed up the Hugo and the Mojo. The Mojo does 768KHz, and I think it does 256 DSD. Have a look on Chord website or the Chord Mojo Official page that I linked for ruthieandjohn above. (I think the Hugo being older is 384KHz.)
 
There is debate about balanced output. I do not know the ins-and-outs. However don't write off the Mojo not being balanced or RCA out. Firstly Chord argue that line out done well, is as good as balanced. No Mojo owners I know have complained either. Second point, I use a QED Reference Audio J2P which 'jack to phono'. I hook up to RCA input of active Q Acoustics BT3. It all rocks for desktop. You can happily connect to an amplifier this way and I will in future. Right now I am desk space limited so I chose active speakers.
 
The Mojo is a good DAC and there is barely any dispute. I had my initial reservations but I was using 'direct sound' from PC. Going bitperfect changes everything; to a larger or lesser extent. It shows up a lot when playing my Star Trek: The Next Generation blu-rays. Direct sound vs bitperfect stands out like going from voices being flat against the back wall. To full utilisation of all sound in the soundstage, respectively.
 
The Mojo is a good DAC if you can live with it. It has taken me a few months to get properly adjusted. Now since I have a tuner on my desktop feeding optical to the Mojo I need it. My Meridian Explorer will not do that. My Mojo has fitted itself into my life. 
 
The Mojo audio quality is exciting. I am sure I would be in audio oblivion bliss if I had more higher end kit than I have. My SR225e really feel at their limit. However they do make a good noise with the Mojo. There's no excess in tones anywhere from the Mojo; it is beautifully balanced. The soundstage is very tall in headphones, and very deep in speakers. Perfect in other words.
 
I absolutely recommend anyone audition Chord. It is said that anyone who baulks at the £1400 price of the Hugo, buys one after they audition it.
 
I am currently playing Love's Unkind - Donna Summer.
 
@ruthieandjohn Thank you for writing back. You are welcome.
 
Quick version:
The Hugo battery takes about 2 hours to charge and runs for about twelve hours.
The Mojo battery takes about 4 hours to charge and runs for about eight hours. (I think the Mojo battery was a brand new design to deliver strong power for high impedance headphones like the HD800.)
 
However both can be used on the desktop. I leave my mojo plugged in all the time.
 
The Mojo battery gets warm when charging. It can get quite toasty when charging and playing. However if you use plugged in all the time it only gets warm.
 
The charging circuit is quite clever. It uses power from the charger when we use it in desktop mode. Now and again it tops up the battery and gets a little warm. However this battery charge is short lived so it never gets hot. There is not worry about the battery being overcharged. The charging circuit cuts off when the battery is full and the Mojo left switched off etc. I.E. no load on the charger at the plug socket.
 
The trick to using the Mojo as a desktop DAC is this. Charge it up overnight, then leave it plugged in whenever you use it, so it stays fully charged.

 

[krud484]

   
I think you may have mixed up the Hugo and the Mojo. The Mojo does 768KHz, and I think it does 256 DSD. Have a look on Chord website or the Chord Mojo Official page that I linked for ruthieandjohn above. (I think the Hugo being older is 384KHz.)
 
There is debate about balanced output. I do not know the ins-and-outs. However don't write off the Mojo not being balanced or RCA out. Firstly Chord argue that line out done well, is as good as balanced. No Mojo owners I know have complained either. Second point, I use a QED Reference Audio J2P which 'jack to phono'. I hook up to RCA input of active Q Acoustics BT3. It all rocks for desktop. You can happily connect to an amplifier this way and I will in future. Right now I am desk space limited so I chose active speakers.

I was recalling from memory, so yes I did mix up the Mojo for the Hugo. After looking further at the specs, it is strange that their flagship Hugo TT only does the 128 DSD & 384 kHz upsampling. The Mojo appears to do exactly twice that for a 1/8th of the price. The only added bonus is that the Hugo TT has an RCA output and balanced output. Kudos to you for being able to jury rig the Mojo for connecting an RCA head amp.
 
In order to get a fully balanced setup, the DAC would have to have a balanced output connected to a balanced head amp with the appropriate cables. Then the of course the headphone itself would need the it's own balanced cable. That would be the only way to guarantee that not only is the entire signal balanced but you also have enough juice to drive whatever headphone. The two things that stick out to me when listening that way is that the imaging is much improved to pinpoint accuracy and the soundstage becomes even wider.
 
The iFi is the most clean and clear unbalanced DAC I've owned. That might have to do with there being a dual Burr-Brown DAC chipset. Tonally the signal sits close to the middle between bright and warm with a slight lean towards bright. It is fairly close in transparency to the Benchmark DAC2. Some recording engineers use that Benchmark for their playback because it is considered one of the most neutral DACs on the market. It's amazing to me how well the iFi performs next to the Benchmark. It really is the best best bang for your buck at $500. I only use it for music so I can't speak for bluray playback. I haven't tried the spdif option either.

 

[JoeDoe]

  Thanks @GreenBow , @wormsdriver ,  @lehoang15tuoi , @BobG55 , and @speedking for suggestions on tiny DACs for the USB output of my PC to feed my Grado.
 
You may have just given me the excuse I need to buy a (used) Chord Mojo or Hugo!  I had earlier tried to justify getting the Hugo to put under my iPhone in a stack, but decided it was too large.  Then I considered the Mojo, but its shape was wrong... only half the length and twice the thickness to stack with my phone.  So for that, I got the V-MODA VAMP VERZA with Metallo case.
 

I'll jump on the Mojo train. It really is a killer piece of kit that serves plenty of purposes. I'm listening to mine through my GH1's right now and it's quite good! Plenty of power, noiseless background, excellent volume control, and a it has a tiny footprint. The fact that I can leave it plugged in 24/7 to serve as a desktop DAC as well as taking it on the road with my phone or AK is just icing on the cake!

 

[stacker45]

DAC for Grado amp?

Anyone have a favorite small-footprint DAC only that will fit on top of my Joseph Grado HPA-1 amp (7" front to back, 5-3/4" left to right) that includes USB input? Needs to be better quality than my Sony VAIO desktop all-on-one PC, but not great.

I am now driving my amp from the headphone output of my desktop... looking for an improvement.

Right now the Schiit Modi 2, $99 with USB only input, at 3.5" front to back x 5" wide, seems a great candidate. Any others?

Thanks!

 
Last night I bought the HPA-1, and HPA-2 matching DAC in my local adds., Lucky me, the guy was also including the also rare 3' interconnect with his Grado DAC-2. I got both for a reasonable $350. 

 
You'll never guess what happened next....the alarm went off, and I woke up realising that it was all a dream!

 
April fools John!

 

[speedking]

   
Last night I bought the HPA-1, and HPA-2 matching DAC in my local adds., Lucky me, the guy was also including the also rare 3' interconnect with his Grado DAC-2. I got both for a reasonable $350. 

 
You'll never guess what happened next....the alarm went off, and I woke up realising that it was all a dream!

 
April fools John!

 
...too bad