Grado Fan Club!
May 15, 2019 at 5:21 AM Post #39,691 of 65,688
I am going to reiterate my opinion that in general Grado's are optimized for lower volume listening.
...The 225e's with backward pad mod once well broken in became my go to model...
I consider the 225e to be the best value in the range for myself at least
and prefer it to the 325 series...mainly due to the latter's weight
and somewhat emphasized/sharpened highs...the 325e is very, very good but the 225e's
are much lighter and are about as good musically (again, at lower listening volumes).

I also love the SR80e's.

....any others enjoy the 225e?
 
May 15, 2019 at 6:36 AM Post #39,692 of 65,688
For anyone interested, Grado PS500 (1st edition, not with "e" drivers) for sale in market section. EU only :wink:.
 
May 15, 2019 at 8:38 AM Post #39,693 of 65,688
I am going to reiterate my opinion that in general Grado's are optimized for lower volume listening.
...The 225e's with backward pad mod once well broken in became my go to model...
I consider the 225e to be the best value in the range for myself at least
and prefer it to the 325 series...mainly due to the latter's weight
and somewhat emphasized/sharpened highs...the 325e is very, very good but the 225e's
are much lighter and are about as good musically (again, at lower listening volumes).

I also love the SR80e's.

....any others enjoy the 225e?

Have you ever compared the 325e with the GH2? I owned both and think that the GH2 sounds a lot better. He is an update of the 325e. It sounds much finer, he gives the instruments much more room. You can hear it when the instrument is touched. The 325e is a rocker. But it is not for subtle music where I want to hear and experience the details. That's what the GH2 is made for!
 
May 15, 2019 at 10:36 AM Post #39,694 of 65,688
Due to a two-stage move from Michigan to Washington over several months, I have had nearly ALL of my Grados in storage since August, 10 months ago. I only kept out my SR125 (original model), my RS1 (also original model) and my GR10e IEMs.

I just opened them all up and put on my GS2000e's.

WOW! How I have missed them! Driving them with my also-reopened Schiit Gungir Multibit and Mjolnir, balanced, they bring such fun to overly-familiar music. I also regained use of my Grado PS2000e, Ultrasone Edition 10, Fostex TH900, and HiFiMAN HE1000, and while they, too, all add new life to old music, it is the GS2000e that really spices up my listening.

During my 10-month hiatus, I had also kept out my Sennheiser HD800 and HDVD800 DAC/amp, and I really gained a new appreciation of how great that chain is (in the past, it got far too little listening time, what with all those other headphones competing).
 
May 15, 2019 at 10:37 AM Post #39,695 of 65,688
I am going to reiterate my opinion that in general Grado's are optimized for lower volume listening.
...
I can't say that I feel that way about the SR and RS Grados, not without EQ.
 
May 15, 2019 at 12:54 PM Post #39,696 of 65,688
Have you ever compared the 325e with the GH2? I owned both and think that the GH2 sounds a lot better. He is an update of the 325e. It sounds much finer, he gives the instruments much more room. You can hear it when the instrument is touched. The 325e is a rocker. But it is not for subtle music where I want to hear and experience the details. That's what the GH2 is made for!


I have no doubt that the GH2 - and the PS500E and other GH's sound better than the 325e,
the 325e is a sharp sounding phone in a good way, with ample frequency extremes - the 225e
once fully broken in for me is more comfortable to wear and easier to listen to
(although they do sound fairly similar overall; are comparable SQ wise. For me the 225e's
are somewhat smoother sounding, esp. in the higher end...very coherent in their own way too).

... I do have a GS1000i when I'm in the mood for higher-end sound, but I prefer listening to the 225s's most of the time.
 
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May 15, 2019 at 7:38 PM Post #39,697 of 65,688
I meant to mention this earlier. There is a shop in Quebec selling a brand new pair of PS1000e's for $1,499.00. Which is about $1,050.00/$1,100.00 in US funds.

On Canuck Audio Mart.

Shane D
 
May 15, 2019 at 8:17 PM Post #39,698 of 65,688
I have no doubt that the GH2 - and the PS500E and other GH's sound better than the 325e,
the 325e is a sharp sounding phone in a good way, with ample frequency extremes - the 225e
once fully broken in for me is more comfortable to wear and easier to listen to
(although they do sound fairly similar overall; are comparable SQ wise. For me the 225e's
are somewhat smoother sounding, esp. in the higher end...very coherent in their own way too).

... I do have a GS1000i when I'm in the mood for higher-end sound, but I prefer listening to the 225s's most of the time.

Funny sometimes to realize how individual tastes vary over same products, in this case some of the headphones mentioned by you on your post headfry. In my case I owned both the PS500e & the SR325e in the past & I preferred the SR325e (just it's overall sound). The SR325e is the one headphone I somewhat regret, at times, selling. I also own the GS1000i & have owned it for a couple of years now. It's one of my favourite, go to HPs & am presently listening to them w/ the Violectric V281. Pure magic. My personal opinion : the GS1000i is one of the best HPs ever made.
 
May 15, 2019 at 9:54 PM Post #39,699 of 65,688
Yayaya it's time for the GS2000e (2Ke) vs GS3000e (3Ke) comparison! Unfortunately, I don't have any other flagship headphones in my possession so I can't compare directly with other heavy hitters. But I primarily went with the 2Ke initially because it was a super lightweight wooden headphone. At the time, it was Grado's wooden flagship, as the 3Ke was released two years later. Anything over 350g is too heavy for me, so that rules out many flagships that I would've otherwise considered anyway. Let's get to it!

The 3Ke is heavier than the 2Ke but it's still ultra lightweight compared to other contemporary wooden headphones, which usually weigh in excess of 500g. I don't
have a scale with me but I'd say the 2Ke is about 250g, while the 3Ke is about 300g, as it's still slightly lighter than the HD800, which is 330g.


The 3Ke has this proud "Made in USA" sticker that my 2Ke does not, and I have never seen this sticker on other models. Cute! There is also a larger "Made in USA" sticker on the 3Ke's box. Grado really wants to stress that it's American.



The 2Ke has this lovely brown leather headband that is standard on newer RS2e/RS1e/GS1000e models. (Older models used a black leather headband that's on the SR325e/PS500e/PS1000e/GHx). The 3Ke upgrades the headband to Grado's super-wide one, which is also on the PS2000e. This super-wide headband makes the 3Ke just as comfortable as the 2Ke despite the added weight. Some people complain about the simplicity of these headbands. I love them because you can stretch them to however wide you want. I like mine very stretched.



One interesting thing to note is that Grado usually has a flat metal grille on all of its premium headphones. For the 3Ke, Grado decided to use a convex metal grille. No idea if it actually improves the sound, but it does give back the 3Ke some aesthetic points against the 2Ke. I don't have a PS2000e on hand so I don't know whether it's the same for that model.



The 2Ke uses a "purple" 50mm driver that's not on any other model, with the standard hole layout. The 3Ke reportedly uses a "blue" 50mm driver with the extra hole layout that's only on the PS2000e. However, my 3Ke uses a black driver, which is the color of the PS2000e driver. Did I get a 3Ke with a PS2000e driver? Who knows! Note that the cloth covering each headphone is different; the 2Ke uses the standard cloth, while the 3Ke uses a finer cloth that makes it more difficult for a stray hair to get through. The 2Ke has four see-through holes, while the 3Ke has five. Remember that it's possible to mod an SR Grado for more bass by punching up to 10 holes in the felt.

On to sound!

I enjoyed my 2Ke for 2.5 years, and it worked for me because I was willing to apply an extreme EQ to it. But I'm gong to be completely honest here. The 2Ke was a very contentious headphone. You had Grado fans like ESL-1 and ruthieandjohn proclaiming it was one of the best models that Grado has ever made. You have others claim that not only was it one of the worst Grado models, but one of the worst headphones ever. Joshua Valour, in his scathing review, said he'd easily pick the SR80e over it. So who's right? I actually agreed with Joshua on many of his points. I admit that I'd take a $50 Portapro over the 2Ke's stock sound. There is something very wrong about its stock sound, but why then would others greatly prefer it?

Grado drivers defy objective measurements. Many online reviewers are trending towards headphone amps with low output impedance, usually under 1 ohm. Grado drivers react to low output impedance amps with a tight, focused bass, but it ends up sounding thin and quiet. Using a headphone amp with a higher output impedance loosens the bass, but at least this adds a bit of definition and presence to it. This is induced distortion, but it's a pleasing sort of distortion. My NuForce HDP with its 10 ohm output impedance does a better job with the 2Ke's bass than my iFi iDSD BL, which has a 1 ohm output impedance.



So using a well-measured, objective amp makes the 2Ke sound thin and screechy. The treble is ultra piercing in the 5k-8k range. But this is also the region where many older people with presbycusis (hearing loss due to age) have reduced hearing. I'm not suggesting that those who love the 2Ke have presbycusis. But I'm in my 30s and my ability to hear mid-treble is still good. And any crash cymbal on the 2Ke's stock sound makes me wince and want to pull off the 2Ke from my head. I needed -12dB at 6khz to make it enjoyable. But the 2Ke still presents with a bit of graininess to the treble that Joshua also spotted, and it's incapable of presenting a decent amount of sub-bass no matter how much EQ is applied. This seemed like limitations of the 2Ke's driver. But it might be an inherent property of the maple wood. Mahogany was used on the lesser wooden Grado models, but those models have more bass presence. Maple has only been used on the GH1, the GS2000e (mahogany/maple hybrid), and the PS2000e (metal/maple hybrid). I haven't heard the GH1 and PS2000e. But maple is supposed to impart a bit of brightness onto the sound signature. Unfortunately, too much of a good thing can be a disaster, and after hearing the GS2000e's treble, which is even more piercing than the SR325e, I would be very reluctant to audition the GH1 and PS2000e.

Enter the 3Ke. I'm going to reveal it now: the 3Ke fixes many of the 2Ke's issues, and curbstomps the 2Ke so much that Grado should honestly discontinue the 2Ke and disown it as a failed experiment. There is no point in getting the 2Ke at retail price when for $400 USD more you can get the 3Ke. I paid $2200 CAD for my 2Ke. I was very fortunate to get a used 3Ke for $1450 CAD. And I feel I'd now have a very difficult time selling my 2Ke for $1000 CAD.

The 3Ke uses cocobolo, which is denser than the mahogany/maple hybrid of the 2Ke. It presents a much more weighty sound than the 2Ke, though at stock it may still sound a little thin to some. Pairing it with the iFi iDSD BL is great, and I have both the bass and 3D+ switches activated. The 3Ke is easier to amp, as I get more volume out of it and am able to keep the iFi iDSD BL on eco power, while with the 2Ke I need it at normal power. The 3Ke doesn't distort as much when I activate the bass switch. The 3Ke actually has some sub-bass, though you need to EQ up to hear it, and it will never be a bass monster. Unfortunately, I think Grado missed the opportunity to hit a home run here to make the 3Ke as universally accepted as the PS500 non-e. While the mid-treble is no longer a hot, screechy mess, the 3Ke is still very bright, and I still need -6dB at 6khz to fully enjoy it. This is much better than the 2Ke, in which I needed -12dB at 6khz. Note that this really only applies to the G-cush. You could "downgrade" to the L-cush or even flats to make the stock sound great, but I would rather EQ and keep the wide soundstage. I also feel the "risky muddy" area in the low-mids is more coherent in the 3Ke. On the 2Ke, I needed -8dB at 200hz to get a sense of separation and clarity. On the 3Ke, despite the weighty sound, I feel -4dB at 200hz is great, and that is mostly preference. I wouldn't mind keeping 200hz at stock.

Overall, the 3Ke will make Grado fans happy and is a significant upgrade over the 2Ke, though I find that both headphones at stock sound don't have my ideal sound signature. However, it's apparent that the 3Ke's drivers are superior and will allow for better amp matching and EQ tweaking than the 2Ke. For the $400 USD price difference, it's a no-brainer. I can see my 3Ke being my endgame headphone for a very long time, until I perhaps save up enough money to get a MySphere rig.

GS2000e:
- It looks very nice
- Ultra lightweight
- Very piercing, grainy mid-treble. Some people may actually prefer this

GS3000e:
- Easier to amp than the GS2000e
- Actual sub-bass but needs EQ for it to be noticeable
- Treble is smooth, suggesting the driver is more technically competent
- Mid-treble still bright, but not piercing
- It's still very much a Grado, so the stock sound will not convert Grado haters unless S-cush/flats are used
 
May 19, 2019 at 2:24 AM Post #39,700 of 65,688
...
I must say, that there is something appealing on Grados, but at the same time, they are the most inconsistent manufacturer there is.
So many models, and variety of them is huge. In some models like 60 via 125 differences are subtle (better element pairing), but then you are on your own and the west is wild! And like thats not enough, there are several revisions, and each one of those sounds very different. You cant buy latest 325e:s, if you liked the original revision, or is version, or...
And chances are not usually for the better. They are just different! They are totally different sounding cans. etc... And dont let me start with cushions!
...
Oh, I just picked up a spare SR325is (a backup for the only headphone that has remained in my collection since I got into this hobby ten years ago, all others have changed over and over), and I'm noticing that this 325is with "chrome" cups weighs a little more than my old 325is with nicer brushed aluminum cups.
I'll bet that after dynamating the spare like my older 325is, it may sound noticeably different beyond what I would expect just from manufacturing variance.
Gosh damn.

And I intend to give the newer 325e a go some time, too.
 
May 19, 2019 at 9:10 PM Post #39,701 of 65,688
B08CC684-D681-48BA-9777-1F71B2558426.jpeg
I’ve had all four...SR325i (the gold one) is my favorite. It is also the brightest of all the Grados.
 
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May 20, 2019 at 3:13 AM Post #39,703 of 65,688
For someone just trying Grados the SR60e to SR225e are good introductory Grados. If you want to guess your favorite headphone just by looking at model numbers then you will most likely fail. But that happens in every brand, the Sennheiser HD600 are very different to the HD650, you cannot assume that bigger number is better. The Grado SR line improves the higher you go up to the SR225e, the SR325e changes too much. Then you have the GS, PS and RS series that are completely different, but you should try or at least read reviews before buying expensive headphones.
any idea what the difference is between the SR60 and SR80?
 
May 20, 2019 at 7:14 AM Post #39,704 of 65,688
Grado Labs and the PS2000e was featured in this week's Worth It episode. Reactions were quite positive.
I've always wondered about John Grado's reference tracks. He's mentioned them before but not what specific track in the album and what he is hearing for in each track, very cool!:metal::sunglasses:
 
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May 20, 2019 at 8:42 AM Post #39,705 of 65,688
I've always wondered about John Grado's reference tracks. He's mentioned them before but not what specific track in the album and what he is hearing for in each track, very cool!:metal::sunglasses:

I would've picked Layla over Signe for Eric Clapton's Unplugged, as that track is absolute bliss on my GS3000e. But Signe is probably a better starter to wow those two because it's a simpler piece.
 

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