[chinmie]

I don't think wireless earbud will sound close to wired ones, especially those totl iems, any time soon. Maybe someday it will replace
all these ridiculously expensive wired phones just as WIFI has replaced ethernet connection at home.

Although I like the idea of being wireless I do not want the iem to ruin or deteriorate the sound coming out from the expensive daps I purchased.

soundwise i think wireless do compete with their wired brothers in their respective price bracket. what concerns me about wireless is the battery life-span. it will deteriorate over time and needs replacement. that's why I'm a bit wary to invest on them too much compared to buying wired ones as they will be with me for longer years.

maybe someday battery tech would last longer or be user replaceable. but for now i see them more as fast moving electronics, just like the way i see cellphones

 

[nc8000]

soundwise i think wireless do compete with their wired brothers in their respective price bracket. what concerns me about wireless is the battery life-span. it will deteriorate over time and needs replacement. that's why I'm a bit wary to invest on them too much compared to buying wired ones as they will be with me for longer years.

maybe someday battery tech would last longer or be user replaceable. but for now i see them more as fast moving electronics, just like the way i see cellphones

Yes for my the wireless is not primarily about sound but about the full package compared to my needs which are on the go with my iPhone

 

[Luchyres]

What eartips did you use with the M2?

Using the spinfit cp100 has transformed the M2 for me. Opened up the soundstage, tightened and cleaned up the bass and improved instrument separation.

They are incredibly sensitive to fit and the eartips. The comply ones provided made them sound very muddy and dull for my ears.

Ah, I did use only the stock tips - but while a less muddy, more open soundstage sounds great to me - I don't think it would have affected the metallic resonating sound I could hear on bass heavy tracks - but if nobody else has heard that, then I think maybe both of the buds I had had the same issue.

I am definitely interested to see what they throw out as an M3 - but I don't think I'd want to get another M2 - due to the resonance sound and I didn't have good luck with the call quality.

If I do get it though, I'm definitely going to try the cp100.

 

[MulberryMadness]

Not sure why these TWE manufacturers are not using higher capacity Varta button cells that have been available for more than several years now.

https://incompliancemag.com/li-ion-...rget-bluetooth-portable-and-wearable-devices/

Only Bragi, as used as an example by Varta in their English pdf, has apparently older cp1624 A2 @100mah, while cp1654 A3 is now @120mah as indicated in Varta’s pdf, 2x capacity of most TWE batteries in use.

https://products.varta-microbattery...e_TrueWirelessSmartEarphones_CoinPower_en.pdf

Any other DIY ppl here notice that also the CP1654 A3 has 2C as max continuous discharge current, as well as 3C for 2seconds? only interesting if you could make a magnetic or similar, quick-change battery, that would slap-on the outside cover, so you could change a bunch of them out, ASAP. What kind of drivers need lotsa current/voltage to operate, such that there are no TWEs of them yet??? J


https://www.jlabaudio.com/products/jbuds-air-true-wireless-earbuds-charging-case. Other than Apples Airpods, which are not yet BT5.0 compliant but supposedly are BT class 1 output power, couldn’t find a TWE at any price range that outputs as the high power rate of 100mw, BT5.0 class 2, typical, is 2.5mw…substantial difference.

A Primer on Bluetooth 5: Everything You Need to Know Before Integrating Your IoT Product

https://mindtribe.com/2018/04/a-primer-on-bluetooth-5/

• “There are now four classes of Bluetooth devices, grouped by transmit power. Bluetooth 5 adds Class 1, which provides a significantly higher maximum transmit power.

There are a few subtleties to the interactions of the above points which may not be obvious at first glance:

• Bluetooth 5 does not specify an increase in MTU size or minimum connection parameters when compared to Bluetooth 4.2 + LE. If you’re using the 1M PHY (the only one available to previous versions of BTLE) a Bluetooth 5 device and a Bluetooth 4.2 device will perform identically.
• As far as we can tell, there are phones which support the 2M PHY (Galaxy S8/S8+/S9/S9+, iPhone 8/8 Plus/X) but none which support the lower speed/longer range PHYs. This means, as of now, there are no phones which can make use of the new long-range features in Bluetooth 5. This could potentially change with firmware updates to these phones.
• The long-range extensions and higher speed 2M PHY are mutually exclusive. They are also completely independent of any transmit power settings a given board may provide.”

So, if you’ve got BT5.0 TWEs but a phone that doesn’t implement PHY LE 2M protocol, instead of PHY LE 1M (1Mbs), you’re not getting any increases!



Dispelling Common Bluetooth Misconceptions

https://www.sans.edu/cyber-research/security-laboratory/article/bluetooth


https://blog.bluetooth.com/exploring-bluetooth-5-how-fast-can-it-be

Conclusion
For Bluetooth low energy throughput in theory, the chart below illustrates the differences between the Bluetooth low energy specifications. You can see that Bluetooth 5 has a bandwidth that is ~4.6-times greater than 4.0/4.1 and ~1.7-times greater than 4.2. Higher bandwidths can translate into higher speeds, this will allow Bluetooth low energy to transmit data streams faster than ever before - more efficient, less band occupation, and more suitable for rapid data transmission. For application scenarios like Over-The-Air firmware upgrades, or wearable device data log synchronization, Bluetooth 5 will enable brilliant user experiences, while higher speeds will build a solid platform for future high data rate stream transmissions.”

Could not get the image to paste above showing comparison of data rates, but calculation shows.

For Bluetooth 5 throughput, the calculation is:

And so we see that the quote below is not telling you that LDAC is only going to be able to stream at lower data rates with BT4.0 or even BT4.2, only if BT5.0 is at maximum will you get that desired 990kbs of LDAC< if you don’t have BT5.0 LE 2M protocol implemented on both sending & receiving devices, no LDAC higher bit rates will happen. Probably need BT LE 2M to even get max rates with Aptx HD.

https://blog.bluetooth.com/what-bluetooth-developers-should-know-about-android-o

Bluetooth Audio

Android O also released additional support for Sony LDAC[3]. LDAC is an audio coding technology developed by Sony that enables the transmission of High-Resolution (Hi-Res) Audio content, even over a Bluetooth connection. This technology can improve the transmission throughput of Bluetooth audio signals at a maximum of 990kbps. With LDAC support, LDAC-enabled headsets and speakers would be able to connect with Android O devices and have a high-quality audio experience.

LDAC has 3 options for transmission rate:

• 990kbps, Quality priority mode
• 660kbps, Normal mode
• 330kbps, Connection priority mode

It looks like Android O also supports Qualcomm’s aptX and aptX-HD as well, giving developers plenty of options for using audio over Bluetooth.

 

[Bartig]

I don't think my Funcl W1 has one. I wonder if the QCY T1C has volume control or do you have to spend more than $100?

The QCY doesn't have volume control and I'm glad about that actually. Because volume is the only button you can easily press on your phone, without getting your phone out of your pocket. I find models with volume control (T2C TWS for example) over complicating things. They give buttons on both earpieces different functions in order to have the volume up there as well. Result is far from intuitive controls.

I've demo-ed quite a few in all price ranges. MT07 is probably my favorite out of the box, but I feel it is not worth the asking price. 80$ sets will sometimes get you 80% to 90% of the sound quality but offer better battery.

The expensive models all have apps with EQ settings though...so I guess in the end it is not that big of a deal...fit, connection and features makes more of an impact to me.

Well, Spotify and most Android devices have equalizers too... I refuse paying big sums of money for that. And I find that more and more cheap models have all the basic functions covered now - such as auto pairing, decent call quality, auto power off.

 

[mico1964]

Ah, I did use only the stock tips - but while a less muddy, more open soundstage sounds great to me - I don't think it would have affected the metallic resonating sound I could hear on bass heavy tracks - but if nobody else has heard that, then I think maybe both of the buds I had had the same issue.

I have the same issue: buzzing resonating noise on bass heavy tracks in all my white M2 earbuds (2 pairs) only when connected as slave, with both iPhone Xs and Apple Watch 4. Started after update to the last firmware.

 

[firewatersun]

Not sure why these TWE manufacturers are not using higher capacity Varta button cells that have been available for more than several years now.

https://incompliancemag.com/li-ion-...rget-bluetooth-portable-and-wearable-devices/

Only Bragi, as used as an example by Varta in their English pdf, has apparently older cp1624 A2 @100mah, while cp1654 A3 is now @120mah as indicated in Varta’s pdf, 2x capacity of most TWE batteries in use.

https://products.varta-microbattery...e_TrueWirelessSmartEarphones_CoinPower_en.pdf

Any other DIY ppl here notice that also the CP1654 A3 has 2C as max continuous discharge current, as well as 3C for 2seconds? only interesting if you could make a magnetic or similar, quick-change battery, that would slap-on the outside cover, so you could change a bunch of them out, ASAP. What kind of drivers need lotsa current/voltage to operate, such that there are no TWEs of them yet??? J


https://www.jlabaudio.com/products/jbuds-air-true-wireless-earbuds-charging-case. Other than Apples Airpods, which are not yet BT5.0 compliant but supposedly are BT class 1 output power, couldn’t find a TWE at any price range that outputs as the high power rate of 100mw, BT5.0 class 2, typical, is 2.5mw…substantial difference.

A Primer on Bluetooth 5: Everything You Need to Know Before Integrating Your IoT Product

https://mindtribe.com/2018/04/a-primer-on-bluetooth-5/

• “There are now four classes of Bluetooth devices, grouped by transmit power. Bluetooth 5 adds Class 1, which provides a significantly higher maximum transmit power.

There are a few subtleties to the interactions of the above points which may not be obvious at first glance:

• Bluetooth 5 does not specify an increase in MTU size or minimum connection parameters when compared to Bluetooth 4.2 + LE. If you’re using the 1M PHY (the only one available to previous versions of BTLE) a Bluetooth 5 device and a Bluetooth 4.2 device will perform identically.
• As far as we can tell, there are phones which support the 2M PHY (Galaxy S8/S8+/S9/S9+, iPhone 8/8 Plus/X) but none which support the lower speed/longer range PHYs. This means, as of now, there are no phones which can make use of the new long-range features in Bluetooth 5. This could potentially change with firmware updates to these phones.
• The long-range extensions and higher speed 2M PHY are mutually exclusive. They are also completely independent of any transmit power settings a given board may provide.”

So, if you’ve got BT5.0 TWEs but a phone that doesn’t implement PHY LE 2M protocol, instead of PHY LE 1M (1Mbs), you’re not getting any increases!



Dispelling Common Bluetooth Misconceptions

https://www.sans.edu/cyber-research/security-laboratory/article/bluetooth


https://blog.bluetooth.com/exploring-bluetooth-5-how-fast-can-it-be

Conclusion
For Bluetooth low energy throughput in theory, the chart below illustrates the differences between the Bluetooth low energy specifications. You can see that Bluetooth 5 has a bandwidth that is ~4.6-times greater than 4.0/4.1 and ~1.7-times greater than 4.2. Higher bandwidths can translate into higher speeds, this will allow Bluetooth low energy to transmit data streams faster than ever before - more efficient, less band occupation, and more suitable for rapid data transmission. For application scenarios like Over-The-Air firmware upgrades, or wearable device data log synchronization, Bluetooth 5 will enable brilliant user experiences, while higher speeds will build a solid platform for future high data rate stream transmissions.”

Could not get the image to paste above showing comparison of data rates, but calculation shows.

For Bluetooth 5 throughput, the calculation is:

And so we see that the quote below is not telling you that LDAC is only going to be able to stream at lower data rates with BT4.0 or even BT4.2, only if BT5.0 is at maximum will you get that desired 990kbs of LDAC< if you don’t have BT5.0 LE 2M protocol implemented on both sending & receiving devices, no LDAC higher bit rates will happen. Probably need BT LE 2M to even get max rates with Aptx HD.

https://blog.bluetooth.com/what-bluetooth-developers-should-know-about-android-o

Bluetooth Audio

Android O also released additional support for Sony LDAC[3]. LDAC is an audio coding technology developed by Sony that enables the transmission of High-Resolution (Hi-Res) Audio content, even over a Bluetooth connection. This technology can improve the transmission throughput of Bluetooth audio signals at a maximum of 990kbps. With LDAC support, LDAC-enabled headsets and speakers would be able to connect with Android O devices and have a high-quality audio experience.

LDAC has 3 options for transmission rate:

• 990kbps, Quality priority mode
• 660kbps, Normal mode
• 330kbps, Connection priority mode

It looks like Android O also supports Qualcomm’s aptX and aptX-HD as well, giving developers plenty of options for using audio over Bluetooth.

The battery size thing is extremely annoying to me. I have and love my MW07 but would pay an extra 100 over the base price to get it to work for even 5 hours solid without a warning signal. As it is, I can only really use it for commutes, almost any other lengthy activity it starts annoying me halfway through with that low battery warning.

 

[Bartig]

Nice! There's something to chose in this price tier. The Sabbat X12 Pro sound great, with quite a tight bass too! Mids aren't as forward as on the QCY T1C/QS1 - but this one is very sweet too... awesome!

 

[actorlife]

^^Those remind me of the KZ I have. Do those have volume controls?

Ordered the QCY T1C now for the wait. I might order the the ones I linked from Amazon last nite.

 

[webvan]

Yes the X12 have volume control, three taps on the right Vol+, three taps on the left Vol-
I recommend fitting them with earbud "sponges" for improved comfort and stability.

 

[Bartig]

Yes the X12 have volume control, three taps on the right Vol+, three taps on the left Vol-
I recommend fitting them with earbud "sponges" for improved comfort and stability.

The ones in the package are crappy, suggestions?

 

[actorlife]

Yes the X12 have volume control, three taps on the right Vol+, three taps on the left Vol-
I recommend fitting them with earbud "sponges" for improved comfort and stability.

Thanks alot. Can you tell me a bit about the SQ and is it the best at the price. Which store is the best price to get these? Edit Seems like $45 is the lowest on ebay.

 

[dhc0329]

Has anyone tried RHA CL2 Planar @ $899? This one's wired/wireless so wondering how wireless sounds.

https://www.rha-audio.com/us/products/headphones/cl2-planar

 

[Nocturnal310]

hey guys..so i ordered jabra elites 65t and excited to try them but i read sennheiser momentums have much better sound quality.
I wonder how much difference will i notice?
I am mainly going to use them for commute so its lot of passive listening but i listen to lot of trance/edm music for commute...and i read bass can be little flat?

also coming from wired IEMs, how close is even sennheiser momentum compared to say westone w30? also are they as water resistant as jabra elites?..i do have to walk in light rain many times.

i am just trying to set my expectations right.

 

[assassin10000]

The ones in the package are crappy, suggestions?

These are nice. They are a bit thicker, softer and smoother than the thinner foams usually found on AE. More comfortable and what I use on my earbuds. Much better bass response since it seals the earbuds better. You can cut, poke or punch a hole where the outlet on the earbud is. If you think it's muffling the highs. It doesn't do enough on my earbuds for me to bother with personally, ymmv:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/50-...ns-bud-Headphone-Covers-Tips/32607003829.html

They are the same as these, just a lot less of them:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/20p...phone-Earpads-Covers-MP3-MP4/32671911259.html



These are the thinner ones, a bit less bass response and maybe a bit more treble. They are a bit itchy to me initially due to a rougher/more porous surface:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/30P...acement-For-Earphone-MP3-MP4/32909795959.html