flinkenick's 17 Flagship IEM Shootout Thread (and general high-end portable audio discussion)
Jul 28, 2021 at 3:19 PM Post #34,321 of 39,414
The way I always look at it and part of the reason I tend to prefer bassier iems is that I like to listen at lower volume levels. So the perceived loudness of bass is less, requiring more actual bass presence for it to be perceived the way I want. Also likely part of the reason why I wasn't a huge fan of the ie900 and why I felt it was bass light. At the volume levels I prefer, I perceived the bass to be light comparatively. Turning the volume up brought the bass more in line, but at that point it was just louder overall than I would have liked.
You're not the first person to say that, and it makes sense why something like Nio would be preferable. I generally don't listen to anything that needs some bass licks at low volume with the IE900, but then they're not overly bright to my ears either. That said, I don't listen to them too loudly either (by my standards) be ause I find the bass superb at moderate listening levels, and the mids are among the clearest I've heard with any IEM. I was actually doing some AB with the LX today and at the same moderate volume levels I could make out the lyrics more easily on the IE900 than I could on the LX every time, somewhat surprising given the LX has multiple BA drivers for the mids and its mids are tuned relatively higher than the IE900.
You don't imagine what an IEM sounds like just by looking at its graph. You extrapolate what it sounds like by comparing it against graphs of other IEMs.
Spot on. I only look at graphs in reference to other graphs (thank you @crinacle). There's really no other way to try figure out how an IEM might sound without a base reference, which is always an IEM I'm familiar with. Also when I review IEMs I've always got other IEMs in mind when describing the sound, even though I don't always directly reference the other IEM. Describing an IEM on its own terms without any yardstick, music notes or an idea of volume levels is incomprehensible to me. (How many times have you read a review that says bass is full, mids are clear and treble is smooth...without actually referencing anything else? Drives me nuts, especially when in reality it's anything but - and often contradicted later on in the same review).
 
Jul 28, 2021 at 4:07 PM Post #34,322 of 39,414
Is that because sine sweeps are used for FR curves as opposed to actual music, and therefore can't simulate how we would hear actual sounds at different volume levels?

This gets much closer to the crux of my question. In actual fact then, listening volume is even more important, in many ways, than what you see on a FR graph, because changes to volume necessarily affect how we hear the different frequencies irrespective of what we see on the graph. Take the Legend X, for example. It can legitimately sound like three different IEMs at three different volume levels because the perception of bass kicks in significantly more at higher volumes, interacting with and affecting the other frequencies in different ways. Similarly, if someone says an IEM sounds too bright for them, increasing the volume (and increasing the bass response) can (depending on how the treble is tuned, type of drivers etc) actually balance out (effectively reduce) that brightness compared to listening to at lower levels.

Add to this the fact that different types of music emphasise different parts of the FR curve, and you suddenly have a minefield of very specific criteria that affect a person's perception - and hence their reality - of an IEM.
When an IEM is bright and verging on Sibilance and even becoming shrill, lowering the volume has been the answer in my experience. Raising the volume has only made it worse for me. Tks.
 
Jul 28, 2021 at 4:12 PM Post #34,323 of 39,414
is there another Hidition NT6 user/owner here (small chance i know but had to ask) ?

If so , what cable do you use it with ?

5 years after buying it , this ciem is fantastic with old school (2000-2004) prog house , Zeus XR has been gathering dust these last few weeks....

Impressive.
 
Jul 28, 2021 at 4:51 PM Post #34,324 of 39,414
You're not the first person to say that, and it makes sense why something like Nio would be preferable. I generally don't listen to anything that needs some bass licks at low volume with the IE900, but then they're not overly bright to my ears either. That said, I don't listen to them too loudly either (by my standards) be ause I find the bass superb at moderate listening levels, and the mids are among the clearest I've heard with any IEM. I was actually doing some AB with the LX today and at the same moderate volume levels I could make out the lyrics more easily on the IE900 than I could on the LX every time, somewhat surprising given the LX has multiple BA drivers for the mids and its mids are tuned relatively higher than the IE900.

Spot on. I only look at graphs in reference to other graphs (thank you @crinacle). There's really no other way to try figure out how an IEM might sound without a base reference, which is always an IEM I'm familiar with. Also when I review IEMs I've always got other IEMs in mind when describing the sound, even though I don't always directly reference the other IEM. Describing an IEM on its own terms without any yardstick, music notes or an idea of volume levels is incomprehensible to me. (How many times have you read a review that says bass is full, mids are clear and treble is smooth...without actually referencing anything else? Drives me nuts, especially when in reality it's anything but - and often contradicted later on in the same review).
Back before I started writing myself, that last bit you said was one of my hugest pet peeves when reading reviews. I personally think a review fails when the IEM becomes interchangeable; when you can swap it out for any other, because of how vaguely it’s been described.

I’m sure I’ve been guilty of that myself in the past. My definition of neutral and/or natural has changed massively over time, for example. But, yeah, the full bass, clear mids, smooth highs three-pronged attack is the absolute worst of them all. :D

When an IEM is bright and verging on Sibilance and even becoming shrill, lowering the volume has been the answer in my experience. Raising the volume has only made it worse for me. Tks.
Yeah, whenever someone tells me every IEM they hear is either bright or shrill, the first thing I tell them to do is lower their volume. :D I think pumping up the volume super-high is much less of a problem now. Around a decade ago, back when getting proper treble extension and lively dynamics was an issue, raising the volume was the only way you could get the punch you needed. Now, with technique already being fairly strong under the $1000 mark, you could get away with low-level, yet lively listening with far more ease.
 
Jul 28, 2021 at 8:05 PM Post #34,325 of 39,414
x-posted

Any Canadians out there interested in hearing the Erlkonig? Surely an experience on the bucket list of every true audiophile. @Wildcatsare1 is going to help us make it happen...but we need numbers :D
 
Jul 28, 2021 at 8:53 PM Post #34,326 of 39,414
LP6 Platinum Review is on track to be released by the end of the week. I hope you guys don't mind, it's clocking in at approx 6k words. Here's one of the pics!

IMG_1433-Edit copy.jpg
 
Jul 28, 2021 at 9:11 PM Post #34,327 of 39,414
LP6 Platinum Review is on track to be released by the end of the week. I hope you guys don't mind, it's clocking in at approx 6k words. Here's one of the pics!

Can you just post 6 pictures instead?
 
Jul 28, 2021 at 9:14 PM Post #34,328 of 39,414
x-posted

Any Canadians out there interested in hearing the Erlkonig? Surely an experience on the bucket list of every true audiophile. @Wildcatsare1 is going to help us make it happen...but we need numbers :D
Me! Me! Me!
 
Jul 28, 2021 at 10:16 PM Post #34,330 of 39,414
LP6 Platinum Review is on track to be released by the end of the week. I hope you guys don't mind, it's clocking in at approx 6k words. Here's one of the pics!

IMG_1433-Edit copy.jpg
Jeez, what a setup.
 
Jul 28, 2021 at 10:22 PM Post #34,331 of 39,414
LP6 Platinum Review is on track to be released by the end of the week. I hope you guys don't mind, it's clocking in at approx 6k words. Here's one of the pics!

IMG_1433-Edit copy.jpg
🤤 worthy
 
Jul 28, 2021 at 11:47 PM Post #34,332 of 39,414
Back before I started writing myself, that last bit you said was one of my hugest pet peeves when reading reviews. I personally think a review fails when the IEM becomes interchangeable; when you can swap it out for any other, because of how vaguely it’s been described.

I’m sure I’ve been guilty of that myself in the past. My definition of neutral and/or natural has changed massively over time, for example. But, yeah, the full bass, clear mids, smooth highs three-pronged attack is the absolute worst of them all. :D


Yeah, whenever someone tells me every IEM they hear is either bright or shrill, the first thing I tell them to do is lower their volume. :D I think pumping up the volume super-high is much less of a problem now. Around a decade ago, back when getting proper treble extension and lively dynamics was an issue, raising the volume was the only way you could get the punch you needed. Now, with technique already being fairly strong under the $1000 mark, you could get away with low-level, yet lively listening with far more ease.
This is true I think for most, which is why a flat neutral IEM is good to have if you're mixing or reviewing, as it can serve as a point/model of reference. Words could only describe so few information on how a sound sounds, than perceiving in actuality how that sound sounds. It's like trying to describe a picture, even just a simple oval have so many variables to consider such as how big it is relative to another oval or the paper it's drawn, or its shape and how it's curved. Describing how a music sound on a particular IEM on the other hand, is even more complex and somewhat alike describing a lens through which you view a colorful landscape painting. Hence why relativity matters, and is useful to derive/extrapolate the 'thing' you're trying to point or draw out
Another thing about this is electricity, and how signal is transmitted, conducted, and converted into our brains. Which comprises elements such as how the source interprets the signal information (DAC, filtering, amplification), how it interacts with the monitor (power output, conductivity), and how it's emitted into our ears and be perceived (senses, perception). It really is more complex than it straighforwardly seemed at first

Regarding the bass volume, I'm curious myself how different sources play a role into this. As in my experience I found that interactions between DDs and players vary quite significantly in the the bass department. It may have something to do with sensitivity of DDs with driving power. This was apparent to me when I was comparing the Isa and IE900 through my phone and P6Pro. The bass of the IE900 sounded louder from phone, but when compared with P6Pro they sounded pretty similar in volume
 
Jul 29, 2021 at 12:47 AM Post #34,333 of 39,414
LP6 Platinum Review is on track to be released by the end of the week. I hope you guys don't mind, it's clocking in at approx 6k words. Here's one of the pics!

IMG_1433-Edit copy.jpg
Looks lovely. I can’t get past the UI of LP6, but it’s on my wish list of DAPs on UI enhancement please!
 
Jul 29, 2021 at 3:23 AM Post #34,334 of 39,414
Rhapsodio Infinity Mk2

A2A5A737-88B4-4BCE-9C01-6B7FB4FE0895.jpeg

Following on from my Supreme Mk2 impressions I shared a few days ago, I think it's time to share some thoughts on Rhapsodio's other flagship IEM, Infinity Mk2. I want to thank @hshock76 once again for generously allowing me to demo both Infinity Mk2 and Supreme Mk2 for the past few weeks.

Infinity Mk2 is a 6 balanced armature driver IEM with exclusive "Dual Copper Coil" technology that retails for USD $3,600, placing it in a very competitive flagship price bracket that includes heavyweights like Empire Ears Odin and 64 Audio Tia Fourte. The two copper coils house what appears to be 4 of the 6 BA drivers and look to be connected to the crossover circuit board. What exactly these coils are doing to the sound is unclear to me, but they do look cool :D Sammy certainly knows how to create a distinct and striking looking IEM.

However, the coils are quite large and as a result, Infinity Mk2's acrylic shells are massive. In fact, I think it's the largest IEM I've ever used, even surpassing the Sony IER-Z1R and Campfire Audio Solaris. This caused me a bit of trouble achieving a decent fit, and unfortunately, a deep insertion seems to be crucial for Infinity Mk2 to sound right. Without the right fit, I noticed that bass thins out severely, and the upper mids become too shouty and piercing. I rolled through my entire collection of ear tips, and settled on the SpinFit CP145 in medium size. I also had to swap to an Effect Audio Ares II+ cable, as the stock Rhapsodio cable's ear hooks simply would not work with the shape of my ears and how far the Infinity Mk2 protrudes from my ear canal.

Another important thing to note is that Infinity Mk2 is highly source sensitive. Switching between DAPs will offer a drastically different listening experience. I'd be interested to see an impedance curve measurement as it appears that a lower OI brings out more bass, not too dissimilar to the Campfire Andromeda. It also hisses like an Andromeda, so a low noise floor DAP or source would be required if you want a silent background. I tested Infinity Mk2 on all my DAPs and found the iBasso DX300 (with Amp11 mk1) to pair best to my preferences. I did notice a small amount of hiss, but it didn't bother me too much and was hardly noticeable while music is playing.

F3950DBA-0888-49D5-A3BF-32327A5DB211.jpeg


Infinity Mk2’s tuning is what I would describe as a treble leaning v-shape, with a prominent upper mid, lower and mid treble emphasis, countered with a recession from mid bass through to the lower midrange. This tuning gives Infinity Mk2 an exciting, energetic signature that works especially well for music with female vocals and string instruments. However, the tuning may not work for everyone, especially bassheads or anyone sensitive to forward upper mids and treble.

Bass:

I would consider Infinity Mk2's bass to be neutrally tuned, with what appears to be a slight sub bass boost that slopes down through the mid and upper bass frequencies. As i mentioned above, bassheads will want to look elsewhere, especially if you need a solid mid bass slam. Bass transients are fast, with typical BA texturing and decay. Overall, the bass does a decent enough job to support the mids and treble, but it certainly isn't going to be the star of the Infinity Mk2 show. I personally find the bass to be it's most disappointing feature. I definitely would've preferred more mid and upper bass to make it a bit punchier and warmer.

Mids:

The midrange follows a typical V-shape tuning, with lower mids being slightly recessed compared to the upper mids. This tuning creates a revealing midrange that does an excellent job at presenting detail and nuance for both vocalists and mid instruments. Strings sound particularly crisp and bitey, allowing each pluck and strum to be clearly rendered. Vocalists, especially female, are presented quite forward, and the upper midrange emphasis allows vocal harmonics and overtones to shine through, giving the vocals an airy and clear timbre with ample body, but can potentially sound a little harsh depending on your tolerances.

Treble:

Infinity Mk2 has a vibrant and highly energetic treble response with excellent upper treble extension. Cymbals and percussive instrument decay sounds shimmery without sounding harsh, sibilant or overly strident to my ears, Overall, I find Infinity Mk2’s treble very enjoyable that will probably suit trebleheads, however the sheer amount of treble, coupled with the forward upper mids may be an issue for sensitive ears or those that listen at higher volumes.

Technicalities:

This is where Infinity Mk2 really excels, and why I personally would choose Infinity Mk2 over Supreme Mk2. Transient speed across the spectrum is incredibly fast, imaging is super precise, and the soundstage is one of the largest I’ve heard in an IEM with amazing width and depth. Instrument separation is also top notch. At no point through my demo did I feel any sense of congestion or congealing of notes. Detail retrieval is excellent, up there with the more detailed IEM’s ive heard like Anole VX, Odin and Traillii.

If you are a sucker for technicalities like I am, then I highly doubt you will be disappointed in Infinity Mk2’s technical performance.

Conclusion:

Infinity Mk2 is a fantastic, extremely technical IEM with a highly energetic and vivid sound. Once you get the right fit and use a complimentary dap/source, it offers a euphoric listening experience that will certainly satisfy the upper mid and treble heads of the IEM world. My main gripe is the bass, which to my ears, is a typical run of the mill BA driven bass response that lacks the punch and texture that I need for my music taste. I also wish the shells were a little smaller, and that it wasn’t so source sensitive.
 
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Jul 29, 2021 at 4:13 AM Post #34,335 of 39,414
is there another Hidition NT6 user/owner here (small chance i know but had to ask) ?

If so , what cable do you use it with ?

5 years after buying it , this ciem is fantastic with old school (2000-2004) prog house , Zeus XR has been gathering dust these last few weeks....

Impressive.
I use a graphene-coated SPC. It's a great IEM for sure - I use mine most days
 

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