[Chris J]

Well, I wasn't looking for a definite answer, and since this is the forum were I heard about the cheap Chinese amp from Ebay in the first place I figured if there's a place on the web where I should ask it's probably here. I'm aware that there are different variations of CMoys and I was looking only for a rough idea how they might compare with E17. I'm sorry If you found my question bothersome, annoying and ultimately stupid and unnecessary, but I don't really have the funds required to experiment with various equipment so I thought I could try and ask here maybe someone could help me, I really had no intention of bothering you or anyone else and I think that there was no need for the condescending tone of your post. Once again I'm sorry if you found my post unnecessary and annoying.

I could, perhaps, rephrase my question, but I guess if I asked whether E17 is, in it's price range, a right fit for DT 770 Pro 250 Ohm and DT 990 Pro 250 Ohm you'd just refer me to your first answer in this Q&A or offer yet another analogy which doesn't help me at all; so I guess I shouldn't even bother?

Anyhow, thanks for your time and sorry you had to suffer through my posts.

Welcome to Head Fi (no sarcasm intended!)
Yes, text can seem a bit cold.
I know I've P.O. legions on Head Fi.......

Anyway, food for thought: the E17 will have more long term versatility.
You may be able to buy a used one for $120-100, or even less.
That's how I got my E17.

Cheers,
C J

 

[TrollDragon]

Quote:

Of the E7 and E17, I would only get the E7 if you want those features and don't care that it blanches out the body of the music noticeably.  Sounds detailed and thus engaging, but grates subliminally after a time, particularly with my PFE 232 Phonak IEMS which have a bit of grain anyway.  Yet, the E7 is a bargain.  The E17 has more features, and sounds definitely better.  But still, when I switch to the iPad 3 (DAC and line out) plus Arrow amp ($300, all analog), I discover (sometimes startlingly) how vivid and 3D sound can be from headphoness.  It comes to life compared to the FiiO amps that seem somehow thin and crisp by comparison.
 

 
This is one of the things that really bothers me about Head-Fi sometimes...
 
Buddy comes here asking about justifying the cost difference between an E17 versus a  $20 White Box DAC & $60 Mint Tin amp to drive a pair of 250 ohm beyerdynamic's... Then there always seems to be someone with $600 IEMS, $400+ Source and a $300 or better amp that needs to point out the blatant obvious of how much better they sound over the cheap ***** FiiO gear, and in an E17 thread even...
 
No offense Stoney but I am seeing this more and more around Head-Fi.

 

[bowei006]

Quote:

 
I have the opposite view.  
The E17 is a tad bright; I even need to turn the treble down one click.  
And the E7 and E07K are said to be similar -- my E7 is even more bright than the E17.  
Both have flat, solid bass.  
 
I'm using various equipment so that I get a good perspective, but not perfect, on what "is neutral" versus what "seems neutral".  
 
Of the E7 and E17, I would only get the E7 if you want those features and don't care that it blanches out the body of the music noticeably.  Sounds detailed and thus engaging, but grates subliminally after a time, particularly with my PFE 232 Phonak IEMS which have a bit of grain anyway.  Yet, the E7 is a bargain.  The E17 has more features, and sounds definitely better.  But still, when I switch to the iPad 3 (DAC and line out) plus Arrow amp ($300, all analog), I discover (sometimes startlingly) how vivid and 3D sound can be from headphoness.  It comes to life compared to the FiiO amps that seem somehow thin and crisp by comparison.
 
Other thant the 232s, I use modified HD650 with Cardas Clear Light 1 meter exclusively.  Other sources are varied: Perreaux, headphone outs of SACD players (currently the SCD-XA5400ES), WA-6 tube amp (too soft on detail and rather midrangy, but lovely if boring).  

 
Well we each have our own. I played many songs with key highs and got to my conclusion.
Quote:

 
This is one of the things that really bothers me about Head-Fi sometimes...
 
Buddy comes here asking about justifying the cost difference between an E17 versus a  $20 White Box DAC & $60 Mint Tin amp to drive a pair of 250 ohm beyerdynamic's... Then there always seems to be someone with $600 IEMS, $400+ Source and a $300 or better amp that needs to point out the blatant obvious of how much better they sound over the cheap ***** FiiO gear, and in an E17 thread even...
 
No offense Stoney but I am seeing this more and more around Head-Fi.

+1

 

[Chris J]

Quote:

 
This is one of the things that really bothers me about Head-Fi sometimes...
 
Buddy comes here asking about justifying the cost difference between an E17 versus a  $20 White Box DAC & $60 Mint Tin amp to drive a pair of 250 ohm beyerdynamic's... Then there always seems to be someone with $600 IEMS, $400+ Source and a $300 or better amp that needs to point out the blatant obvious of how much better they sound over the cheap ***** FiiO gear, and in an E17 thread even...
 
No offense Stoney but I am seeing this more and more around Head-Fi.

 
People own the gear that they own.
It's only natural from them to compare different pieces of equipment they own.

 

[bowei006]

Quote:

 
People own the gear that they own.
It's only natural from them to compare different pieces of equipment they own.

Yeah but its counter intuitive when one make an obvious claim
 
Going into a Mitsubishi Eclipse thread and saying that while it is good, your Bugatti does it quite much better etc etc
 
is a bit stale.

 

[jacobi]

Hi guys,
 
I've recently bought HD 558, i'm planning to use it for home theater. Using E17 as dac, and plugging my tv via optical seemed like a good idea.
 
Is it practical or should i consider another amp ? Thanks.

 

[bowei006]

Quote:

Hi guys,
 
I've recently bought HD 558, i'm planning to use it for home theater. Using E17 as dac, and plugging my tv via optical seemed like a good idea.
 
Is it practical or should i consider another amp ? Thanks.

If you just needed a device for home theatre and not a portable device, units from ARCAM and HRT are more recommended.

 

[Chris J]

If you just needed a device for home theatre and not a portable device, units from ARCAM and HRT are more recommended.

Do you realize what you just did? LOL!

I assume you are referring to the cheaper Arcam and HRT DACs!

 

[bowei006]

Quote:

Do you realize what you just did? LOL!

I assume you are referring to the cheaper Arcam and HRT DACs!

Yeah, I was 

 
HRT Music Streamer II ($150 model) and Arcam rPAC ($170) are quite popular for it. I never got my hands on an HRT MSII but I did receive the rPAC for review. Using it as a DAC for home theatre units is quite decent. If you need a small device that doens't need an AC adapter that is.

 

[kalbee]

Quote:

Hi guys,
 
I've recently bought HD 558, i'm planning to use it for home theater. Using E17 as dac, and plugging my tv via optical seemed like a good idea.
 
Is it practical or should i consider another amp ? Thanks.

If TV and computer aren't very far apart and you can connect both at once without the need of moving the DAC/AMP, then a desktop model (or w/o internal batteries) would be better suited for you IMO.
But of course, if you enjoy the fact that these can be used as part of a portable rig, then yes, it would certainly be practical.
Mine is connected to computer & PS3 (share the same monitor) and I take it out as portable amp once in a while. Much less now in winter though, cold aluminum is... well, cold. And I don't bring out the harder to drive headphones in winter.

 

[Stoney]

Quote:

No offense Stoney but I am seeing this more and more around Head-Fi.

 
Oooh, suddenly there is this class warfare.    
 
It is hard for me to notice whether I am thread hijacking (hard given 353 pages) or derailing the subject of the day... I'm not able to follow very well for several reasons (time, illness, etc).  
 
So, as I write post, I'm not necessarily making a response, but an outflow of what I'm discovering as I tinker.  It isn't intended as a reply, or a debate, so much as to toss out another set of observations.  I get value from various directions... maybe I'll be one of those for someone else. 
 
That I have different equipment, can be another useful set of glasses through which to take a look.  Even though, yes, I use some pricier equipment with the E17, I find it helps isolate sound quality of the lower cost item.  Sure, system synergy is key, particularly at modest prices and for portable rigs.  But, philosophically, I just tend to think of units in isolation.  Then, assemble a system of near-ideal components rather than combine something bassy with something trebly, for example.  
 
Also, I come from a background of acoustics and reviewing such that I can't help but look at things in my certain way.  Doesn't mean it is right for a particular member here or their equipment... just another bit of info.  

 

[UnityIsPower]

Just a bit of info... My HFi580s sounded better out of my asus monitors headphone out then the Xbox to E17 using optical lol.

 

[catspaw]

I wanted to comment on something i read a few posts back.
On the battery side, In general battery is affected by a large number of factors that will either increas or decrease its performance/lifetime.
As an example, i used an MP3 from LG (JM-53 i think it was) for over 6 years and the battery was still holding a strong 15 hours time, from an original 36 H.
That beeing said, my Cowon i9, has a battery of bearly 7 hours after 1 year use (thou the device is far smaller than my LG).
 
Humidity, Temperature, Charge Powers, ammount of on/off turns.... All of this affects the battery and it can even flat out kill it.
In theory, having a battery fullycharged all time is bad, but if i remmber correctly, todays batteries should not be fully charged only if the device is not beeing used for an extended period of time (like 3+ months).
 
I normally to ensure battery lifespan drain it till the devices turns off once a month moreless. (In fact this happens naturally as i simply forget to charge it from time to time, or leave it on unaware).
 
Also, one thing i discovered:
 
When you first turn the Fiio E17 into a laptop, it will by default go to 16 bit quality/44khz.
I did not even know that you have to change it to 24 bit/96k manually in the windows settings.
It improved my sound quite drasticly i have to say.

 

[bowei006]

Just a bit of info... My HFi580s sounded better out of my asus monitors headphone out then the Xbox to E17 using optical lol.

Better is subjective. I personally find that you have a tendency for coloration over the year. I have an Asus monitor.

 

[UnityIsPower]

Better is subjective. I personally find that you have a tendency for coloration over the year. I have an Asus monitor.

hmmm... I find that I like less coloration over the years. Lol. The thing about headphones that color sound is... they don't represent the music as it was intended. (Given u remember our conv's)As I have listened to more music and tried out more headphones, a bass emphases has been less and less important to me. One might get a kick every now and then from bass prominent phones with bassy music but I now flavor true to recording reproduction. What I experienced with the asus monitor was a cleaner sound output then the Fiio E17. Background noises had more texture to them and separation was easier to detect. Even after upping the volume on the FiiO, this difference stayed consistent. I tried different gain setting as well as adding some EQ. I also had to deal with less clutter just plugging my phones into the monitor. This also stayed the same whether I was playing a game or music. The monitor was a VS247H-P and I ended up selling my FiiO E17. Note I have also sold my DJ 1's. Aside from cleaning up the noise a bit off my PC and adding more bass on my iPhone 4, the E17 ended up being used less and less. The DJ1 where still used but I have moved to a more warm-analytical sound. Updating my profile now.