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Campfire - Solaris

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  1. Rorset
    I suppose it doesn't really matter where they source their BAs from as long as they use them to make a good sounding IEM, but it is pretty disheartening that they'd use knockoff Knowles on their kilobucks totl product when tons of cheap chifi use real Knowles BAs :triportsad:
     
  2. OverlordRush
    Does it really matters if CFA knows? I thought Solaris suppose to be a premium product, and it should use premium parts. How much cost do CFA even save by going with Bellsing BA instead of Knowles? I don't think this would even be the place to cheap out on.

    My guess is, they will export their current their current Solaris they have in stock in the US and make a new version without the Bellsing BA.
     
  3. Rockwell75
    Notwithstanding the hue and cry of the usual riff raff who, despite having no real interest in this product seem to appear out of nowhere to fan the flames every time there's a little bit of drama, it's really too early to make any bold pronouncements at this point. On a certain level I don't really care-- I've never put any thought into the specific brand of the BA drivers in Solaris (or any other IEM for that matter), and I probably still won't after this-- the only thing that matters to me is how the IEM sounds and, whatever the outcome of this is, the Solaris still sounds better than many other, more expensive flagships (cough cough IER Z1R cough cough).
     
    tracyca, 8481, bfreedma and 3 others like this.
  4. FastAndClean
  5. twister6 Contributor
    Sounds like I'm late to the party, the flood of messages started last night and turned into avalanche this morning with everybody talking about it... At the end of the day I feel the same way, treating IEMs and DAPs like a black box, judging by what I'm hearing (rather than what I'm seeing in the graphs or from reading DAC specs - and since when did we start using our eyes to analyze the sound? :D). So what if Campfire is using custom Bellsing BAs; I don't recall them ever claiming about using Knowles, so it's not like they are misleading their customers. And to my ears, Solaris is still one of the TOP tuned IEMs I have in my review collection, and it also happens to be priced as one of the lowest among many other TOTL IEMs I've tested.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2019
  6. cr3ativ3
  7. cr3ativ3
    this is also true :)
     
    Rorset likes this.
  8. BananaOoyoo
    So how does the use of Bellsing BAs actually affect any current/future Solaris owners?

    There's this section, "Knowles also requests permanent cease and desist orders directed to each of the named Respondents, for a period of at least 10 years, from using or disclosing any subject matter of Knowles’s trade secrets at issue in this Investigation, and from importing, selling, offering for sale, using, marketing, advertising, distributing, transferring, repairing or servicing, assembling, testing, aiding or abetting other entities in importation, sale for importation, sale after importation, transfer, or distribution, and/or soliciting U.S. agents or distributors for importation, sale for importation, sale after importation, transfer, or distribution of certain balanced armature devices and electronic devices containing the same, or components thereof, or from domestically installing Accused Products after importation into downstream devices assembled or manufactured by or for Respondents in the United States.", which, if approved, would presumably not be ideal for made-in-USA products like Campfire's.

    Unless that comes to pass, it's mostly just an optics issue, right? The fact that Solaris uses Bellsing BAs doesn't change my sound impressions on it (I still find it a good, if unspectacular, IEM).
     
    fokta likes this.
  9. theveterans
  10. BananaOoyoo
    Does Bellsing have poor QC with their products (or is that something Knowles excels at)? Or do you think that CA has been changing up their drivers between products?
     
  11. theveterans
    Good question. I want to know this as well. Then again, the actual BOM is cheap regardless of whether it's Bellsing or Knowles (so that's one way to have discrepancies between the sound) but the R&D involved in the driver design is expensive
     
  12. subguy812
    I am not sure why folks are upset. I never have seen Campfire make any claim as to their drivers, except BA and DD in the case of Solaris. Misleading the consumer is an entirely different thing, but I haven't seen proof of that. You read an article and now all of the sudden Solaris doesn't sound good? The problem is this will spiral out of control, as it is beginning to do. Also, one individuals measurements aren't gospel either. You listen with your ears not your eyes.
     
  13. bfreedma
    Drama aside, and with the assumption that the case has merit and Campfire believes Knowles will win their patent hearing, I would expect the outcome to look like the following:

    Knowles wants to be compensated and a settlement is reached where:
    • Campfire pays Knowles an amount equal to the cost of the Knowles drivers X number of units manufactured at the time of the settlement
    • Campfire re-engineers the Solaris using the Knowles BA. If the Bellsing BA is close enough to infringe on granted patents, this should not be a huge effort
    • Units requiring service in the future would be replaced with units containing the Knowles BA
    This makes legal and financial sense for all parties without undue damage to the consumer which would risk backlash directed at Knowles. Neither party likely wants to fund an extended legal battle.
     
  14. zombywoof
    There are plenty of cases where the most widely know product is not the best product. No question that Knowles has a beef with these clowns if the took proprietary technology elsewhere. But unless Bellsing is actually marketing their BA's as genuine Knowles, they are not fakes. It is possible that the Bellsing products have superior performance to the Knowles product. Maybe that is the reason CA chose this manufacturer over Knowles. I would say that CA has a earned a very good reputation in this community based on the performance and quality of their products. I do not see any evidence hear that there was a nefarious plot afoot at CA to defraud their customers. I see a company trying (and succeeding) in bringing new products and technologies to a market that accepts (expects?) as much.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2019
    Cann3dh33t, fokta and chocomel167 like this.
  15. OverlordRush
    I don't think the problem is how the Solaris sound with the bellsing driver. It's the fact that if this c&d takes effect, it will affect the availability of solaris in the US, and can CFA even service the Solaris if there is a driver issue? and does this damage CFA's relationship with Knowles? Too many unknowns at this point and people are just speculating. I'm sure CFA will work something out with Knowles, and we will be seeing a Solaris V2 in the future? so A win-win for the consumers i guess...
     
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