[Rorset]

I suppose it doesn't really matter where they source their BAs from as long as they use them to make a good sounding IEM, but it is pretty disheartening that they'd use knockoff Knowles on their kilobucks totl product when tons of cheap chifi use real Knowles BAs

 

[OverlordRush]

Guess it comes down to commercials. If Bellsing are producing BAs that sound and work like the more expensive Knowles counterparts, then why wouldn't firms use them as a cheaper alternative?

It's a different story if they knew that they were direct copies of the Knowles kit, but how would they know that without something like this coming to light? Bellsing recruiting lots of Knowles employees would give the impression that they had recruited the relevant knowledge and experience to make credible gear. You wouldn't assume that the tech and gear were directly stolen.

Also, the fact that three well respected and credible high end IEM manufacturers (CTM, Campfire Audio and JH Audio) all used the Bellsing drivers in question in some expensive models either means that the Bellsing guys have a REALLY convincing sales team, or at the least that the gear is pretty well performing.

Will be interested to see how this pans out in terms of the court ruling.

Does it really matters if CFA knows? I thought Solaris suppose to be a premium product, and it should use premium parts. How much cost do CFA even save by going with Bellsing BA instead of Knowles? I don't think this would even be the place to cheap out on.

My guess is, they will export their current their current Solaris they have in stock in the US and make a new version without the Bellsing BA.

 

[Rockwell75]

Notwithstanding the hue and cry of the usual riff raff who, despite having no real interest in this product seem to appear out of nowhere to fan the flames every time there's a little bit of drama, it's really too early to make any bold pronouncements at this point. On a certain level I don't really care-- I've never put any thought into the specific brand of the BA drivers in Solaris (or any other IEM for that matter), and I probably still won't after this-- the only thing that matters to me is how the IEM sounds and, whatever the outcome of this is, the Solaris still sounds better than many other, more expensive flagships (cough cough IER Z1R cough cough).

 

[FastAndClean]

Bellsing BAs on Solaris, wow - https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/cxqlje/knowles_files_claim_with_us_trade_commission_to/

 

[twister6]

Notwithstanding the hue and cry of the usual riff raff who, despite having no real interest in this product seem to appear out of nowhere to fan the flames every time there's a little bit of drama, it's really too early to make any bold pronouncements at this point. On a certain level I don't really care-- I've never put any thought into the specific brand of the BA drivers in Solaris (or any other IEM for that matter), and I probably still won't after this-- the only thing that matters to me is how the IEM sounds and, whatever the outcome of this is, the Solaris still sounds better than many other, more expensive flagships (cough cough IER Z1R cough cough).

Sounds like I'm late to the party, the flood of messages started last night and turned into avalanche this morning with everybody talking about it... At the end of the day I feel the same way, treating IEMs and DAPs like a black box, judging by what I'm hearing (rather than what I'm seeing in the graphs or from reading DAC specs - and since when did we start using our eyes to analyze the sound? ). So what if Campfire is using custom Bellsing BAs; I don't recall them ever claiming about using Knowles, so it's not like they are misleading their customers. And to my ears, Solaris is still one of the TOP tuned IEMs I have in my review collection, and it also happens to be priced as one of the lowest among many other TOTL IEMs I've tested.

 

[cr3ativ3]

Bellsing BAs on Solaris, wow - https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/cxqlje/knowles_files_claim_with_us_trade_commission_to/

 

[cr3ativ3]

Sounds like I'm late to the party, the flood of messages started last night and turned into avalanche this morning with everybody talking about it... At the end of the day I feel the same way, treating IEMs and DAPs like a black box, judging by what I'm hearing (rather than what I'm seeing in the graphs or from reading DAC specs - and since when did we start using our eyes to analyze the sound? ). So what if Campfire is using custom Bellsing BAs; I don't recall them ever claiming about using Knowles, so it's not like they are misleading their customers. And to my ears, Solaris is still one of the TOP tuned IEMs I have in my review collection, and it also happens to be priced as one of the lowest among many other TOTL IEMs I've tested.

this is also true

 

[BananaOoyoo]

So how does the use of Bellsing BAs actually affect any current/future Solaris owners?

There's this section, "Knowles also requests permanent cease and desist orders directed to each of the named Respondents, for a period of at least 10 years, from using or disclosing any subject matter of Knowles’s trade secrets at issue in this Investigation, and from importing, selling, offering for sale, using, marketing, advertising, distributing, transferring, repairing or servicing, assembling, testing, aiding or abetting other entities in importation, sale for importation, sale after importation, transfer, or distribution, and/or soliciting U.S. agents or distributors for importation, sale for importation, sale after importation, transfer, or distribution of certain balanced armature devices and electronic devices containing the same, or components thereof, or from domestically installing Accused Products after importation into downstream devices assembled or manufactured by or for Respondents in the United States.", which, if approved, would presumably not be ideal for made-in-USA products like Campfire's.

Unless that comes to pass, it's mostly just an optics issue, right? The fact that Solaris uses Bellsing BAs doesn't change my sound impressions on it (I still find it a good, if unspectacular, IEM).

 

[theveterans]

https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones...ssion_to/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app

what will this impact to new and existing user?

This would probably explain the reason for inconsistent sound signatures between units that Crinacle demoed on different countries

 

[BananaOoyoo]

This would probably explain the reason for inconsistent sound signatures between units that Crinacle demoed on different countries

Does Bellsing have poor QC with their products (or is that something Knowles excels at)? Or do you think that CA has been changing up their drivers between products?

 

[theveterans]

Does Bellsing have poor QC with their products (or is that something Knowles excels at)? Or do you think that CA has been changing up their drivers between products?

Good question. I want to know this as well. Then again, the actual BOM is cheap regardless of whether it's Bellsing or Knowles (so that's one way to have discrepancies between the sound) but the R&D involved in the driver design is expensive

 

[subguy812]

I am not sure why folks are upset. I never have seen Campfire make any claim as to their drivers, except BA and DD in the case of Solaris. Misleading the consumer is an entirely different thing, but I haven't seen proof of that. You read an article and now all of the sudden Solaris doesn't sound good? The problem is this will spiral out of control, as it is beginning to do. Also, one individuals measurements aren't gospel either. You listen with your ears not your eyes.

 

[bfreedma]

Drama aside, and with the assumption that the case has merit and Campfire believes Knowles will win their patent hearing, I would expect the outcome to look like the following:

Knowles wants to be compensated and a settlement is reached where:

• Campfire pays Knowles an amount equal to the cost of the Knowles drivers X number of units manufactured at the time of the settlement
• Campfire re-engineers the Solaris using the Knowles BA. If the Bellsing BA is close enough to infringe on granted patents, this should not be a huge effort
• Units requiring service in the future would be replaced with units containing the Knowles BA

This makes legal and financial sense for all parties without undue damage to the consumer which would risk backlash directed at Knowles. Neither party likely wants to fund an extended legal battle.

 

[zombywoof]

There are plenty of cases where the most widely know product is not the best product. No question that Knowles has a beef with these clowns if the took proprietary technology elsewhere. But unless Bellsing is actually marketing their BA's as genuine Knowles, they are not fakes. It is possible that the Bellsing products have superior performance to the Knowles product. Maybe that is the reason CA chose this manufacturer over Knowles. I would say that CA has a earned a very good reputation in this community based on the performance and quality of their products. I do not see any evidence hear that there was a nefarious plot afoot at CA to defraud their customers. I see a company trying (and succeeding) in bringing new products and technologies to a market that accepts (expects?) as much.

 

[OverlordRush]

I don't think the problem is how the Solaris sound with the bellsing driver. It's the fact that if this c&d takes effect, it will affect the availability of solaris in the US, and can CFA even service the Solaris if there is a driver issue? and does this damage CFA's relationship with Knowles? Too many unknowns at this point and people are just speculating. I'm sure CFA will work something out with Knowles, and we will be seeing a Solaris V2 in the future? so A win-win for the consumers i guess...