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Campfire - Solaris

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  1. BananaOoyoo
    Makes sense.

    Hopefully, the case gets resolved (quickly) and without any issues for owners of IEMs with said driver. Also, hopefully there won't be any Solaris V1 vs. Solaris V2 drama down the line, if driver replacements are the end result of this.
    Rorset likes this.
  2. OverlordRush
    time to sell ur Solaris V1 for the V2
  3. cr3ativ3
    And there is the possibility that they dont make a v2 or it sounds worse :D
  4. Rockwell75
    Yup. I've demoed a number of flagships since purchasing Solaris last March and few come close.

    It started with some people blowing it out of proportion at the outset (which wouldn't be the first time something like that happened with this IEM) as though everything is known and fates have been decided. I don't know enough about drivers and the reputations of different manufacturers to really have an opinion at this point-- and all that's known for sure is that a C&D has been issued...there has been no determination/rule of its validity, of what it all means or who knows/knew what. It's really too early to be saying anything except "let's see how this unfolds". In the meantime I have an IEM that still sounds as fantastic today as it did yesterday.

    Well said, and I agree.

    Or get a VX :wink:
    bden59 likes this.
  5. FastAndClean
    drivers in it are 5$ total, you better come with a good price bruh :floatsmile:
  6. BramblexD
    The issue here isn't whether the Solaris should or should not use Bellsing or Knowles BA drivers, thats a subjective point.
    And nowhere is the BA falsely advertised, nor does Bellsing advertise them as genuine Knowles, except that they happen to be marketed as "drop-in replacements", that Knowles claims are visually, physically and acoustically almost identical.

    The issue is that:
    • Knowles believes it has a good enough case to bring in a US wide ban on Bellsing BAs, based on the evidence they collected that they are being made using trade secrets by former employees, some of which have been prosecuted before for stealing Knowles equipment and manufacturing BAs, and at least one which have signed a non-competition agreement so they shouldn't even be allowed to work for Bellsing. (If you've read the thread and document)
    • Upon section 132 of the complaint, Knowles has expressed this with Campfire directly, but no action was taken.
    (Which is also understandable, cause who wants to give up a cheaper alternative just because the more expensive company said so)
    • However, as a result of this, if the C&D order passes, Campfire can literally not do anything with its existing solaris stocks.
    • Can't sell, assemble, transfer, service, market the solaris in the US, which would be a pretty big issue.
    So the main "fight" is between Knowles and Bellsing, of which Campfire is caught between and might have difficulties if the Cease & Desist goes through, because of the decision to use a Bellsing BA in the Solaris (and that they didn't co-operate with Knowles as the complaint states above)

    Everything I stated is factual, if you read the legal document and the thread (which I wrote)

    In addition, theoretically all Bellsing based products would be banned, but thats terribly difficult to enforce because Knowles would have to buy one of each and open it up to check.

    Again, you can read the complaint yourself here, but I believe based on the USITC terms you have to register to view it.
    PhoenixClaw, Panohm, fokta and 3 others like this.
  7. Rockwell75
    Fair point. Labor costs in the US are like 10x what they are in other parts of the world...I cant begrudge them for pursing a more cost effective alternative, especially one that looks and sounds the same.

    Solaris B here we come. If they released a version 2 with just a tad more midbass oomph it might be game changing...who knows maybe this will turn out to be a blessing in disguise.
  8. subguy812
    I get the points from Knowles POV. I am taking issue as to how this throws shade on the companies mentioned.
    B9Scrambler likes this.
  9. McMadface
    Everybody chill. You can file a lawsuit against anyone for literally anything. It doesn't mean that there is any shred of truth in it. Innocent until proven guilty, remember?

    The current filing with the US International Trade Commission, an administrative and not judicial body, is seeking an injunction against the alleged infringing BAs from entering the US. The complaint does not allege any wrongdoing on the part of CFA, only against Bellsing.

    I know we all like to jump to conclusions, but let's save the pitchforks for the time when something has actually been proven.
    ILyaX, Currawong, Arghavan and 8 others like this.
  10. subguy812
    Didn't know I wasn't "chilling". The only way the companies would be liable was if they knowingly claimed they were using Knowles and they weren't. The worry some have, not me, is what if they need service etc...I am certain that isn't a worry either. If the companies can use .50 drivers as opposed to $5 drivers and make them sound as good as Solaris, I for one don't care. I am certain the elves in CA's workshop are working on tuning Knowles drivers as we speak.
  11. McMadface
    Okay. Kinda weird that you took that post personally. I wasn't singling anyone out, just trying to alleviate some of the panic and misinformation.

    The current filing does not ask for any monetary relief. It's asking for an injunction only. There is no liability to attach at the present. You can sue for monetary damages in a trade secret infringement case. What you're describing is a cause of action for fraud and Knowles wouldn't be the aggrieved party in a fraud case, the consumer would.

    I personally think it would be stupid of Knowles to go after CFA for damages in a future case. It's usually not very smart to sue your customers, especially if it's a privately held company.
    fokta likes this.
  12. McMadface
    fokta likes this.
  13. subguy812
    C'mon man please, I didn't take it personal. None of this has anything to do with me. I am part of the group you were speaking to.
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2019
  14. Malevolent
    From a customer's perspective, I think the major issue here is how units will be serviced, if and when the need arises.

    On the topic of sound, the Solaris (mine, at least) sounds just as great as it did, day one. I'm not really concerned whether Campfire Audio went the 'cheap' route, and installed Bellsing drivers in their flagship product(s). Hell, they still sound fantastic, don't they?
    8481, fokta, uthood and 1 other person like this.
  15. cr3ativ3
    They do :)
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