[perfecious]

- post removed for convenience -

 

[battosai]

Thanks for confirming the fit is good. I will pull the trigger on this or the BGVP OCC once I hear some feedback on that.

So unlike Jon Parker’s experience you can’t sense any real improvements in the Low-Mid area using the copper cable ?
He tested the cable with the DMG and I would have expected something similar with DM6 even if to a lesser extent.

Well, I never really did a good A vs B comparison. I had the stock cable for a day, didn't like the stiffness so I switched to that cable right away. What I can say is that the DM6 sounds really good with it. But I am in the middle of finding the perfect source for my music, too many variables are changing these past weeks So I can't comment much further. Once all my new iems are fully burned in (as well as my R6) then I will have some critical listening sessions. I have another copper cable, balanced 6 core that I will try next week but I won't break my mmcx by going back and forth....

 

[jon parker]

Is it worth it to take the 16 core cable over the 8 core of Nicehck?

I'll let you know my findings in a week or so when the 16 core arrives. (Really happy with the 8 core so Im looking forward to seeing how 'double' the core will perform)
Im under no illusion it would be twice as good!! But it may well offer some refinements in certain areas which has me curious.
Most likely subtle but..the devil is in the detail as they say

 

[hakuzen]

Thanks for posting that. Threads fly soo fast sometimes, and important comments get burred.

Just as an additional information, I was aware of the bias we humans have, and usually we subconsciously associate louder with better (still couldn't fool me with the sound demo HBB did between the iT01s vs. the EX1000, so, you can trust me to put aside any bias, when my goal is to reach the truth ). But because I didn't want that "psychological factor" with my critical listening experiment, bot me and my friend basically tried to compare the two cables, having the more conductive copper one at noticeably lower volume than the SPC one, just to be sure that this doesn't affect our... well... observation. The difference was still there, and nothing was different. I also speculated on my comments on the youtube video, that the difference of conductivity/resistance might mainly affect the amp/source more than anything else as well. I will post my comment here as well, in the spoiler:

Spoiler

It's probably the sum of several factors, like:

#1 internal impedance of the source (and I know that the Axon 7 has high internal impedance, that's why it's hissy with some sensitive IEMs at certain impedance's)

#2 Conductivity "balance" of the cable (pure copper vs, silver-plated whatever), and how it affects the impedance curve of the IEM itself. (It probably) doesn't matter as much for single driver IEMs, but for multiple drivers and especially hybrids like the BGVP DM5 is (that's why I used it in this evaluation) it definitely is a thing. It's like the best case scenario for this experiment.

As an example, have you heard (I was addressing another commenter here) about the 64 Audio U12T? A friend of mine told me (and I've seen people talk about it), that this thing has something called "linear impedance technology". To put it simply, this thing sounds the same, no matter the source you use. And we are talking about 12 drivers IEM per side. It's almost impossible to create such a linear impedance response with that many drivers, and somehow, these guys did it. With such an IEM, a different cable with more or less resistance (conductivity) would most likely, just change the perceived volume, just like I believed it was the ONLY thing that changes for everything, until yesterday.

This is not a black and white thing, this is simply starting a discussion, with the goal (as I've said), to either bust, or confirm myths within the audio world. Another advice, is to stop looking at graphs as gospel. I've seen the measurement graphs of comparisons between different cables, and those showed no change to FR signature, other than DB changes (volume). I've said before, that a simple sine-wave sweep across the frequency spectrum would NOT tell you how the uneven impedance curve of the IEM changes, when ACTUAL MUSIC IS BEING PLAYED, because all drivers a busy with a wide variety of frequencies, not just a single frequency in a single moment. This is all just a small, initial observation/conclusion, made from a single experiment, with a particular gear, and MUSIC was the only thing that was used, with very careful listening at specific details. that I will describe in much more detail, when I get to creating the thread, and you are all welcome to participate in it, so we can collectively find the truth about what's going on.

I've got another (probably dumb) idea. What if somebody creates a device, that can directly measure the signal, coming from the cable? Meaning, instead of measuring cables with IEMs, which would go to sound-recording systems like the EARS rig, a device had MMCX/2pin inputs? Now, such a device would have to be extremely sensitive, close to perfect, and would probably measure how the source (and most importantly - it's amp) reacts to the resistance/impedance of the cables. That would be an experiment I would love to do/see some day. Basically we exclude the huge variables that come from recording the sound of the IEMs, and we only measure the actual source/cables. That still doesn't include the IEMs own impedance balance/curve that I've speculated about in the comment under the spoiler, which probably play a role with all of this as well, but still... Hmm... So many things to try...

- - -

Now, I would like get back on topic (sort of?) and get back to those that were asking about the clicks with the MMCX and their DM6. Every cable we tested, had different male mmcx connector design. So, here's some close-ups (please excuse the camera quality, the Axon 7 has poor camera):

1st. The stock BGVP DM5 cable (pretty standard, both click OK with the DM5):



- - -
2nd. My NICEHCK Pure Copper Cable (my baby lolz). It has the split "cylinder" type (hopefully you can see from the pictures), which is the first time I've seen this design. There was a problem with it though, and the left one doesn't properly click with the DM5. I Think I can force it to click, but I'm not doing that. The cable that broke with my T2's had the same stiff, hard-to-click "feature". So, take that as you will. If you experience that with the DM6 and that cable, I would recommend not plugging-unplugging it much, because it might break. But still, because of the "split" design, it might not "ruin" the DM6 like it happened with my T2. Still, I would be very careful. Anyway, the photo:



- - -
3rd. My friend's Hybrid cable, which I think it has the best design I've seen. By the looks of it, it looks very durable, because it doesn't have the "ring" at the base, like the others, but instead has those "spring-type" hook thingies, that make the click and hold it in place. Not sure how good the connection is with it compared to the other cables with the regular ring, but it worked no problem with the DM5 (both connectors clicked propery).



- - -
4th. This is just a pic of the stock cable that came with my TinAudio T2s. That cable had a loose connection on the left bud, (with the red bud that broke the other cable) so, my conclusion would be, that the male part of the MMCX are the problem. I would like to measure them with a micrometer, just to see how much is the difference, that makes these problems, but I don't have one at the moment. Anyway, the last pic:


Hope that's helpful.

yup, agree. even after matching volume, i can hear slight differences between them. dunno how much is due to physics, and how much to bias/brain artifacts.
like to see more people are curious and experimenting with cables. thanks for your posts, find them interesting and enjoyable. i'm in same boat.
we know that people have investigated this matter using high-end measurement gear. even read an article where discussed how dielectric properties of the sleeve material affects to sound. but dealing with it by our own is entertaining and inspiring.
keep us informed of your findings!

and the detail of mmcx plugs morphology and clicking is very important. couldn't plug some cables into iems because of that.

 

[mr.karmalicious]

Re: a device for measuring the output signal, you really ought to just be able to use an oscilloscope, no?

(I also have some other thoughts re: skin depth and sine waves, but it'll take a while to think through them and type everything up, so that'll happen in the next few days if it happens at all. Thanks for doing all of these tests, @perfecious !)

 

[porrrtico]

did someone noticed the "eraphone" at the back of the box xDDDD

 

[loungecat]

So is changing the headphone cable a thing?
Ordered my from Penon, with copper standard cable.
So if one was to recommend a different cable, which one would it be?

 

[zeppu08]

Anyone tried the ibasso cb12 or cb13 cable with the dm6??

 

[NiVrA]

Anyone tried the ibasso cb12 or cb13 cable with the dm6??

I did try the cables that come from the it04 im no expert but my friends say that it was too sibilant

 

[zeppu08]

I did try the cables that come from the it04 im no expert but my friends say that it was too sibilant

Ohh.. but how did you find them? hmmm was planning of those cable to have the advantage of 2.5 balance to 3.5 thing.. hmm hope some others have tried it.. will wait for more inputs on this.. thanks anyway..

 

[NiVrA]

Ohh.. but how did you find them? hmmm was planning of those cable to have the advantage of 2.5 balance to 3.5 thing.. hmm hope some others have tried it.. will wait for more inputs on this.. thanks anyway..

I was referring to the iems themselves..but yeah its better for other inputs..im really not that good at explaining this kind of stuff still new at this hobby

 

[perfecious]

Re: a device for measuring the output signal, you really ought to just be able to use an oscilloscope, no?

(I also have some other thoughts re: skin depth and sine waves, but it'll take a while to think through them and type everything up, so that'll happen in the next few days if it happens at all. Thanks for doing all of these tests, @perfecious !)

I'm not sure we can do it with an oscilloscope, because it has to be insanely accurate, but then again, it would be hard to make a proper comparison, because... I don't even know how we would do it. Maybe if it was some very fancy oscilloscope, with a computer interface? My device idea was to pretty much be an ADC (analog-to-digital converter), with well made low-noise circuitry, with an usb interface to use with a computer, or be like a PCIE device, like a sound card, that has a line in, but instead of a jack, it has the MMCX/2pin. It would basically work the same way as an on-board soundcard, if you would measure it using a reverse-loop. Still, this device needs to be very sensitive and clear. I don' know... It's just a goofy little idea. Anyway...

So is changing the headphone cable a thing?
Ordered my from Penon, with copper standard cable.
So if one was to recommend a different cable, which one would it be?

Well, the best answer I can give here, is - it depends. When it comes to the DM6, a pure copper cable would "balance it" a bit, especially in that treble region with the 16kHz peak, but not by much. Ultimately, the Pure-copper cable should be the most "honest" and "transparent" with the DM6, without it doing some funky stuff like a SPC cable would do. So, the ultimate recommendation is pretty much Pure Copper for the DM6.

Also, which cable did you ordered exactly? If it's the new BGVP OCC copper one, that's good. The other 2 cables that mainly come with the DM6 (the white and the gray-mixed one), are both SPC cables, so... Not very good for the DM6, based on common consensus.

did someone noticed the "eraphone" at the back of the box xDDDD

LOL That was funny.

yup, agree. even after matching volume, i can hear slight differences between them. dunno how much is due to physics, and how much to bias/brain artifacts.
like to see more people are curious and experimenting with cables. thanks for your posts, find them interesting and enjoyable. i'm in same boat.
we know that people have investigated this matter using high-end measurement gear. even read an article where discussed how dielectric properties of the sleeve material affects to sound. but dealing with it by our own is entertaining and inspiring.
keep us informed of your findings!

and the detail of mmcx plugs morphology and clicking is very important. couldn't plug some cables into iems because of that.

Yeah, based on our findings about the fields and the surface and stuff, I can kinda imagine that different insulator/dielectric coating would have some sort of effect on the voltage(fields), even though that would be reaaaally going hardcore on the science stuff. Still fun to think about these things though. And thanks for all of your measurements that you do btw. I wish I had a great multimeter as well, so I can get geeky in my free time with stuff.

 

[loungecat]

Hi perfecious.
Ok well I have the gray white one that's what came with them.
So, do you have a recommendation, or a path I can look down and decide??
Pulling these Mmcx connecters scares me a bit
Thankyou for your replying

Edit just realised you posted links
I will add a photo as I don't know which one I have lol

 

[perfecious]

- post removed for convenience -

 

[loungecat]

Thanks perfecious, much appreciated
Regards Steve