[tolis626]

Not sure if it helps, but here is a pic of how it should look like in the inside:

Also, take this with a bit of a grain of salt but I genuinally believe that the DLC driver makes a huge difference compared to the normal plastic/mylar driver, especially in the bass region. I mean, DLC is just so much harder than usual plastic, and I think this dirver is sounding freaking fantastic throughout the whole frequency response - everything is quick, tight and very very clear.

Especially for the price of 250€. It's crazy what you'll get with the MSR7b, truly incredible.

Hmmm... Can't make out that much from that diagram. The core idea is the same, there's 3 places from where the driver vents the air it pushes at the back. It's about the same as the original. The top and bottom vents are at almost the same place too. What worries me is that I can't really make out what the structure in the middle is like, just behind the driver. That's the point of interest for me when modding these. As you'll see below, in the originals there's a hole right behind the driver in the plate that seperates the cup from the driver housing.

At stock form, that hole is covered with felt. Same for both of the other vents, but I haven't messed with those that much. Removing the felt ring from the hole and leaving it open (or, if you like to tone it down a bit, using a more breathable material to cover it works just fine, as long as it's less restrictive than the stock felt) while using bigger pads than the stock ones (HM5 sheepskin pads work beautifully). There's more you can do, but with just this simple mod, you're 90% of the way there. The remaining 10% is messing with the details of the sound, adding damping or whatever. Below you can see what it looks like with the felt removed and what the back of the cup looks like.

Finally, this is almost how mine looks now. These photos were first attemps at damping reflections with bluetack (white-tack in this case, I guess) and adding a filtering material at the front. I'm warning you, they are not pretty. Like, at all. The bluetack application was sloppy and the cloth I used in front of the driver was from the pads of an old AKG set I had (the pads were destroyed, so I reused the permanently stained cloth after washing it). But you get the idea. Now I'm using a better suited felt in front of the driver (can't decide if it works better as a ring just over the driver or as a filter under the whole pad) and a better application of bluetack. Also, I liked the change that the bluetack around the driver introduced (I initially used that to stick the cloth on). It seems to dampen vibrations at extreme bass levels at high volumes, so the deepest of bass never ever loses control. As I said before though, this last paragraph is chasing the last 5-10% of performance.
(Warned you, not pretty)

With all this said, I would encourage you to take a peek inside your headphones, see what you find. If the b version is anything like the non b, they're really easy to take apart. And not having the one sided connector should make it safer as there's less wiring to worry about. Probably more direct runs too. All in all, if you decide to do it, there's 2 things to watch out for. One is to use something to cover the driver grille so that hair/dust doesn't fall in there (It's a bitch to get out, I cover mine every time I take the pads off) and two is to just be careful to not squish any wires between surfaces while putting the headphones back together. Needless to say that three is don't yank anything too hard. But on a scale of 1 (too easy) to 10 (impossible), I'd say disassembling the MSR7 is a 3 or 4.

 

[menuki]

Hmmm... Can't make out that much from that diagram. The core idea is the same, there's 3 places from where the driver vents the air it pushes at the back. It's about the same as the original. The top and bottom vents are at almost the same place too. What worries me is that I can't really make out what the structure in the middle is like, just behind the driver. That's the point of interest for me when modding these. As you'll see below, in the originals there's a hole right behind the driver in the plate that seperates the cup from the driver housing.

At stock form, that hole is covered with felt. Same for both of the other vents, but I haven't messed with those that much. Removing the felt ring from the hole and leaving it open (or, if you like to tone it down a bit, using a more breathable material to cover it works just fine, as long as it's less restrictive than the stock felt) while using bigger pads than the stock ones (HM5 sheepskin pads work beautifully). There's more you can do, but with just this simple mod, you're 90% of the way there. The remaining 10% is messing with the details of the sound, adding damping or whatever. Below you can see what it looks like with the felt removed and what the back of the cup looks like.

Finally, this is almost how mine looks now. These photos were first attemps at damping reflections with bluetack (white-tack in this case, I guess) and adding a filtering material at the front. I'm warning you, they are not pretty. Like, at all. The bluetack application was sloppy and the cloth I used in front of the driver was from the pads of an old AKG set I had (the pads were destroyed, so I reused the permanently stained cloth after washing it). But you get the idea. Now I'm using a better suited felt in front of the driver (can't decide if it works better as a ring just over the driver or as a filter under the whole pad) and a better application of bluetack. Also, I liked the change that the bluetack around the driver introduced (I initially used that to stick the cloth on). It seems to dampen vibrations at extreme bass levels at high volumes, so the deepest of bass never ever loses control. As I said before though, this last paragraph is chasing the last 5-10% of performance.
(Warned you, not pretty)

With all this said, I would encourage you to take a peek inside your headphones, see what you find. If the b version is anything like the non b, they're really easy to take apart. And not having the one sided connector should make it safer as there's less wiring to worry about. Probably more direct runs too. All in all, if you decide to do it, there's 2 things to watch out for. One is to use something to cover the driver grille so that hair/dust doesn't fall in there (It's a bitch to get out, I cover mine every time I take the pads off) and two is to just be careful to not squish any wires between surfaces while putting the headphones back together. Needless to say that three is don't yank anything too hard. But on a scale of 1 (too easy) to 10 (impossible), I'd say disassembling the MSR7 is a 3 or 4.

So cool to see these pictures! I don't know, it might not be "pretty", but it's just so interesting to see what did.

I would love to take them apart for the purpose of sending your pictures, I'm still a tiny bit worried I'd break something... still, I'll definitley consider it and try to jump over that fear! Would be cool to just see whats in the inside.

 

[tolis626]

So cool to see these pictures! I don't know, it might not be "pretty", but it's just so interesting to see what did.

I would love to take them apart for the purpose of sending your pictures, I'm still a tiny bit worried I'd break something... still, I'll definitley consider it and try to jump over that fear! Would be cool to just see whats in the inside.

I understand. I was like that at first. First time I took them apart I did nothing to them, I just saw what they were like on the inside. Still, I put them back hastily just because I was anxious I might have broken something and had to make sure they worked. Fast forward a year or so, and I've taken them apart and messed with them TOO many times. It's one of those things that you have to take a plunge for. You're afraid until you familiarize yourself with the process. Then it's easy as pie if you're careful. So take your time, enjoy your great headphones and if you ever decide to mix things up, just take a screwdriver and see what you can do. If you're still afraid to do it alone, hit me up via PM and I'll be more than happy to guide you through it.

PS : I wouldn't mess with them while keeping the stock pads. The ultimate goal of modding the MSR7 was to get rid of the stock pads and add comfort. The fact that the sound also improved tremendously was a happy side effect. You could try other pads too, but HM5 sheepskin (or even pleather) pads are proven to work and are much cheaper than others (Half the price of Dekoni's pads? Maybe less) while still being REALLY nice.

 

[nraymond]

Also, take this with a bit of a grain of salt but I genuinally believe that the DLC driver makes a huge difference compared to the normal plastic/mylar driver, especially in the bass region. I mean, DLC is just so much harder than usual plastic, and I think this dirver is sounding freaking fantastic throughout the whole frequency response - everything is quick, tight and very very clear.

Especially for the price of 250€. It's crazy what you'll get with the MSR7b, truly incredible.

I know I'm repeating myself, but damn, the soundstage on these is just so good. I can't stress it enough, but there is just so much space arround instruments and at times it's hard to believe they're completley closed. But well, they are vented, and thus don't isolate all too well, not a big deal for me at all though.. Sound quality > Isolation all day everyday.

I've still got a lot more music to listen to, but I have been really surprised by the MSR7b (and I've listened to a lot of headphones). They have phenomenal control across the spectrum, and they actually have present and good quality sub-bass - first time I've ever said this about an Audio-Technica headphone. Difficult and complex tracks by artists like BT, Amon Tobin, Flying Lotus, Glitch Mob, Hybrid, etc. are no problem. Fine details are resolved, and I'm not detecting any sort of driver break-up or distortion. They remind me most of a refined/restrained Maxell MXH-MD5000, which has a beryllium-coated diaphragm with a similar dual-chamber design:

The MD5000 drivers aren't angled, and the cord is a single-sided TRS (3.5mm with a threaded socket), so I don't think balanced is possible without doing some serious modding. Stock MD5000 is pretty euphoric. You can see more pictures of the Maxell here (I do love the look and build of it, and the clamp force, like the MSR7b, is perfect):

https://e-earphone.blog/?p=49743

I am running the MSR7b with an aftermarket balanced cable I purchased for $40, this one specifically (currently out of stock, shipped to me from the USA but made in China):

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-5mm-bala...ica-ATH-SR9-ATH-ES750-ATH-ESW950/292553379025

Looks like the same cable sells for a bit over $40 from a few sellers on Aliexpress. I like it because it's well built, seems like it will last, and isn't bulky at all - I use it either at a my desk connected to a headphone amp or to my Onkyo DP-S1 portable player. For what it's worth, this looks like the most affordable aftermarket option on Aliexpress right now (cable is a bit thicker, available with either a 4.4mm or 2.5mm balanced connector, and can ship from China or the US):

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4-4...chnica-ATH-SR9-ATH-ES750-ATH/32845531857.html

No experience with that cable though. Please note I'm not sure the balanced connection makes a significant difference yet. Even though I buy balanced cables for my headphones when I can, I can't yet rule out placebo effect, or the positives of having more power available to drive headphones when they're connected via a balanced cable. Either way, the ATH-MSR7b is an enlightening experience!

Quick note about the YAXI aftermarket earpads: lots of back and forth with the stPad2 on both the MXH-MD5000 and ATH-MSR7b I can say they work, but I now feel like they somehow spread the soundfield out too much, increasing instrument separation but you trade-off an overall soundfield coherency IMO. I'm really undecided on whether that compromise is worth it, so I've put those pads aside to continue evaluating later. Quick tests with the YAXI MSR7 Comfort earpads are promising, they don't seem to change the sound much and they are very comfortable. However I like the stock MSR7b earpads a lot, and since I'm still doing a mental break-in on the MSR7b experience and the stock pads are good, I'm sticking with stock for now.

 

[menuki]

I've still got a lot more music to listen to, but I have been really surprised by the MSR7b (and I've listened to a lot of headphones). They have phenomenal control across the spectrum, and they actually have present and good quality sub-bass - first time I've ever said this about an Audio-Technica headphone. Difficult and complex tracks by artists like BT, Amon Tobin, Flying Lotus, Glitch Mob, Hybrid, etc. are no problem. Fine details are resolved, and I'm not detecting any sort of driver break-up or distortion. They remind me most of a refined/restrained Maxell MXH-MD5000, which has a beryllium-coated diaphragm with a similar dual-chamber design:

The MD5000 drivers aren't angled, and the cord is a single-sided TRS (3.5mm with a threaded socket), so I don't think balanced is possible without doing some serious modding. Stock MD5000 is pretty euphoric. You can see more pictures of the Maxell here (I do love the look and build of it, and the clamp force, like the MSR7b, is perfect):

https://e-earphone.blog/?p=49743

I am running the MSR7b with an aftermarket balanced cable I purchased for $40, this one specifically (currently out of stock, shipped to me from the USA but made in China):

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-5mm-bala...ica-ATH-SR9-ATH-ES750-ATH-ESW950/292553379025

Looks like the same cable sells for a bit over $40 from a few sellers on Aliexpress. I like it because it's well built, seems like it will last, and isn't bulky at all - I use it either at a my desk connected to a headphone amp or to my Onkyo DP-S1 portable player. For what it's worth, this looks like the most affordable aftermarket option on Aliexpress right now (cable is a bit thicker, available with either a 4.4mm or 2.5mm balanced connector, and can ship from China or the US):

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4-4...chnica-ATH-SR9-ATH-ES750-ATH/32845531857.html

No experience with that cable though. Please note I'm not sure the balanced connection makes a significant difference yet. Even though I buy balanced cables for my headphones when I can, I can't yet rule out placebo effect, or the positives of having more power available to drive headphones when they're connected via a balanced cable. Either way, the ATH-MSR7b is an enlightening experience!

Quick note about the YAXI aftermarket earpads: lots of back and forth with the stPad2 on both the MXH-MD5000 and ATH-MSR7b I can say they work, but I now feel like they somehow spread the soundfield out too much, increasing instrument separation but you trade-off an overall soundfield coherency IMO. I'm really undecided on whether that compromise is worth it, so I've put those pads aside to continue evaluating later. Quick tests with the YAXI MSR7 Comfort earpads are promising, they don't seem to change the sound much and they are very comfortable. However I like the stock MSR7b earpads a lot, and since I'm still doing a mental break-in on the MSR7b experience and the stock pads are good, I'm sticking with stock for now.

Happy to hear that you like them. I didn't listen to them for a while, listened to some other cheaper not at all bad headphones, but after I put them on again, I was, again, just blown away a bit.

Everything is so very clear and detailed, sound stage is vast. They can get a bit hot in the treble area with some songs, definitely, but I don't think I can give them away. They just do have too much an interesting signature, and they are for sure extremely capable technically.

 

[bizkid]

They can get a bit hot in the treble area with some songs, definitely, but I don't think I can give them away.

They never get hot in the treble for me personally. And i listen to alot of hot mastered pop music. It just stops going over that point where it would get offensive to me. Can't wait to use these balanced.

 

[Maddog510]

They never get hot in the treble for me personally. And i listen to alot of hot mastered pop music. It just stops going over that point where it would get offensive to me. Can't wait to use these balanced.

I wish I could use these balanced as well. I use my pair with a DragonFly Red external DAC. I wonder if they'll make external DACS with a balanced output.

 

[nraymond]

I wish I could use these balanced as well. I use my pair with a DragonFly Red external DAC. I wonder if they'll make external DACS with a balanced output.

EarStudio ES100:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B078H4YD2L/

 

[PolloLoco]

I wish I could use these balanced as well. I use my pair with a DragonFly Red external DAC. I wonder if they'll make external DACS with a balanced output.

I can strongly recommend the Sabaj Da3. I bought it when I read a review saying it sounded better than a Dragonfly Red for less money, and balanced out. I have never heard the Dragonfly myself to prove or disprove that statement, but I do love my Da3. Theres an excellent review at audioscience.com.

 

[PolloLoco]

Based on the reviews in this thread I took a chance and ordered a pair. I'm hoping they'll be a good closed compliment to my Modhouse Argons. I'm hoping for extended treble and hopefully excellent detail.

 

[Mhog55]

Can anyone compare these to the Beoplay H6? I'm contemplating selling mine to fund the Msr7b.

 

[tokyodan]

Is there such a thing as what I am looking for?

I love my new ATH-MSR7b. I can't imagine anything sounding any better...BUT...I thought open-back headphones would provide what I am looking for. THEY DON'T.

I tried a few pair of open backs in a noisy store, along side the MSR7b. The ones I liked most were the Sennheiser HD 599 which were the only other price comparable headphone that I thought sounded almost as good as the MSR7b.

Although the HD 599 are open-back and sounded different than the MSR7b they still didn't sound like what I imagined open-back headphones were supposed to sound like. They still gave that music right on my ears experience. I have no experience with open back headphones but from everything I read I thought they would sound more like listening in a room with speakers than listening with headphones. I mean with speakers, you have that big open sound but with headphones the sound is right on your ears, no mater how good and detailed the sound is, it is still right on your ears.

I guess no headphones can give that spacious room with speakers (volume is high, room is full of music but it IS NOT right on your ears) sound. Am I wrong?

Hard to explain but I think everybody understands what I am saying.

 

[nraymond]

Is there such a thing as what I am looking for?

I love my new ATH-MSR7b. I can't imagine anything sounding any better...BUT...I thought open-back headphones would provide what I am looking for. THEY DON'T.

I tried a few pair of open backs in a noisy store, along side the MSR7b. The ones I liked most were the Sennheiser HD 599 which were the only other price comparable headphone that I thought sounded almost as good as the MSR7b.

Although the HD 599 are open-back and sounded different than the MSR7b they still didn't sound like what I imagined open-back headphones were supposed to sound like. They still gave that music right on my ears experience. I have no experience with open back headphones but from everything I read I thought they would sound more like listening in a room with speakers than listening with headphones. I mean with speakers, you have that big open sound but with headphones the sound is right on your ears, no mater how good and detailed the sound is, it is still right on your ears.

I guess no headphones can give that spacious room with speakers (volume is high, room is full of music but it IS NOT right on your ears) sound. Am I wrong?

Hard to explain but I think everybody understands what I am saying.

The ATH-MSR7b are very good, and my favorite closed-back headphones that I've listened to. What they achieve I think is due to good design - a well behaved driver and double air cavity behind the driver that is vented and tuned well. Open-back headphones don't have to cope with driver distortion due to cup resonances or backwave pressure the same way a closed headphone does, so they don't have the same design challenges as a closed headphone, but that lack of environmental isolation in an open-back is a double-edged sword. There will always be a place for my favorite open back headphones (Massdrop Sennheiser HD 58X Jubilee, HiFiMan HE-400i, Onkyo A800), but I wouldn't say they are outright superior to the ATH-MSR7b. There are things that the MSR7b can do that none of the open-backs I've listened to can. (Note that I haven't heard anything super-exotic like the RAAL-requisite SR1a ribbon headphones, which could be a different class of open-back, which I'd hope they would be for $3500.)

 

[tolis626]

@tokyodan
I've been seeing this notion that many people have here that open back headphones are somehow inherently better than closed backs. This is, in my ever so humble opinion, a load of garbage. There's absolutely no point in comparing the two design directions. What open back headphones do better most of the time is, like @nraymond said, the fact that they don't have to deal with chamber acoustics as much, which makes them easier to get right. A good closed back is tricky. You have to use properly sized chambers, more elaborate damping and other tricks to not let the issues inherent with closing the headphones ruin the sound. That, and they also usually manage a more natural soundstage, but not necessarily bigger. An open back can more easily trick you into thinking you're not wearing headphones, whereas closed backs I've found to always let you know they're there, like the sound is audibly confined. Maybe confined within a huge soundstage, but always confined.

The truth of the matter is, there's so many different approaches to each design, so many different philosophies, that a comparison is mostly invalid. Case in point, right in front of me I have my HD58x and my MSR7 (originals, modded). Conventional wisdom would have you believe that the 58x, although rather narrow, would still be wider than a wide closed back, like my modded MSR7. That's simply not the case, the MSR7 is downright wider, the sound is bigger in all directions. The 58x wins on imaging and, as I said before, its soundstage is more natural in the width it's given, but it's still narrower. The farthest sound I can hear is closer to me on the 58x than on the MSR7. And my conclusion to this is that, ignoring other factors that would lead one to choose an open or a closed back (like needing portability), a good headphone is a good headphone. People swearing by a certain design approach are mostly missing the point. It doesn't matter if you've only liked and bought open backs all your life, if you find a closed back you like, it's a headphone you like and that's all that matters at the end of the day, not how it got there.

With all that said, it's not like you talked about any particularly wide sounding headphones. The 599 and MSR7b are great headphones, each for different reasons, but none are very wide. My MSR7 got wide after modding, before that its soundstage was just respectable for a portable closed back. The widest headphones I've heard are, I think, the Audeze LCD-2 and LCD-2C, and these are huge planars (many people also swear by the Argon MK3 for how wide they sound, but I haven't tried them). But even those aren't speakers. A speaker is inherently, physically bigger sounding. What gives headphones soundstage is psychoacoustics. The sound isn't big or wide, it's always right on your ears, and parts of it will always sound in your head, even with crazy wide headphones. But, if you use headphones for a while and get used to them, you'll appreciate a wide sounding headphone. Your mind is getting tricked into thinking the sounds are coming from far away, so give it time.

Lastly, it's also very dependent on the music you hear. Electronic music (like rap, hip hope, RnB etc) will almost never sound as wide because of how they are produced. I've also found that aggressive sounding music, like most metal, won't sound really wide no matter what (Although there's bands out there that have spectacular music that can sound really wide. Give Metallica's S&M album a listen, especially No Leaf Clover. I know it's cheating 'cause it's live, but meh). But classical music and the likes can really trick you into thinking you're in this huge concert hall. If you want to hear the most soundstage your headphones can produce, give a listen to Amber Rubarth's Sessions From The 17th Ward album, and especially Strive. It's a binauraly recorded album and it's really impressive how well it tricks your brain into thinking the sound is HUGE. First time I listened to Strive, I had to legit take my headphones off to see if speakers were playing, it's THAT insane.

To wrap this up, just have fun and enjoy your music, that's what all of this is all about. Don't chase after perfection, each piece of gear delivers music differently, and all we have to do is find our favorite versions of that delivery. So don't get too hung up on the details, it ruins everything for you.

 

[tokyodan]

@tokyodan
I've been seeing this notion that many people have here that open back headphones are somehow inherently better than closed backs. This is, in my ever so humble opinion, a load of garbage. There's absolutely no point in comparing the two design directions. What open back headphones do better most of the time is, like @nraymond said, the fact that they don't have to deal with chamber acoustics as much, which makes them easier to get right. A good closed back is tricky. You have to use properly sized chambers, more elaborate damping and other tricks to not let the issues inherent with closing the headphones ruin the sound. That, and they also usually manage a more natural soundstage, but not necessarily bigger. An open back can more easily trick you into thinking you're not wearing headphones, whereas closed backs I've found to always let you know they're there, like the sound is audibly confined. Maybe confined within a huge soundstage, but always confined.

The truth of the matter is, there's so many different approaches to each design, so many different philosophies, that a comparison is mostly invalid. Case in point, right in front of me I have my HD58x and my MSR7 (originals, modded). Conventional wisdom would have you believe that the 58x, although rather narrow, would still be wider than a wide closed back, like my modded MSR7. That's simply not the case, the MSR7 is downright wider, the sound is bigger in all directions. The 58x wins on imaging and, as I said before, its soundstage is more natural in the width it's given, but it's still narrower. The farthest sound I can hear is closer to me on the 58x than on the MSR7. And my conclusion to this is that, ignoring other factors that would lead one to choose an open or a closed back (like needing portability), a good headphone is a good headphone. People swearing by a certain design approach are mostly missing the point. It doesn't matter if you've only liked and bought open backs all your life, if you find a closed back you like, it's a headphone you like and that's all that matters at the end of the day, not how it got there.

With all that said, it's not like you talked about any particularly wide sounding headphones. The 599 and MSR7b are great headphones, each for different reasons, but none are very wide. My MSR7 got wide after modding, before that its soundstage was just respectable for a portable closed back. The widest headphones I've heard are, I think, the Audeze LCD-2 and LCD-2C, and these are huge planars (many people also swear by the Argon MK3 for how wide they sound, but I haven't tried them). But even those aren't speakers. A speaker is inherently, physically bigger sounding. What gives headphones soundstage is psychoacoustics. The sound isn't big or wide, it's always right on your ears, and parts of it will always sound in your head, even with crazy wide headphones. But, if you use headphones for a while and get used to them, you'll appreciate a wide sounding headphone. Your mind is getting tricked into thinking the sounds are coming from far away, so give it time.

Lastly, it's also very dependent on the music you hear. Electronic music (like rap, hip hope, RnB etc) will almost never sound as wide because of how they are produced. I've also found that aggressive sounding music, like most metal, won't sound really wide no matter what (Although there's bands out there that have spectacular music that can sound really wide. Give Metallica's S&M album a listen, especially No Leaf Clover. I know it's cheating 'cause it's live, but meh). But classical music and the likes can really trick you into thinking you're in this huge concert hall. If you want to hear the most soundstage your headphones can produce, give a listen to Amber Rubarth's Sessions From The 17th Ward album, and especially Strive. It's a binauraly recorded album and it's really impressive how well it tricks your brain into thinking the sound is HUGE. First time I listened to Strive, I had to legit take my headphones off to see if speakers were playing, it's THAT insane.

To wrap this up, just have fun and enjoy your music, that's what all of this is all about. Don't chase after perfection, each piece of gear delivers music differently, and all we have to do is find our favorite versions of that delivery. So don't get too hung up on the details, it ruins everything for you.

Hi. I am just in the learning stage and I loved your explanation. Thanks. But I have one question. How does one modify the MSR7 to make it 'wider'?