Audio-gd Phoenix balanced headphone amp.
Jul 13, 2009 at 8:54 AM Post #1,501 of 3,352
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Originally Posted by IPodPJ /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Aww, buddy I'm sorry. Why didn't you say something before he left?
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Toward the end of the meet, I was exhausted and everything started to sound the same.
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Jul 13, 2009 at 9:56 AM Post #1,502 of 3,352
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kay Leonzio /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Things do not seem to be going that well in Audio-gd Phoenix land, at least not with the first few people who have their amps.


Your conclusion is based on??..
( as far as I read, the first batch of owners seem to be thrilled about Phoenix SQ)
 
Jul 13, 2009 at 10:05 AM Post #1,503 of 3,352
Quote:

Originally Posted by sandchak /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Your conclusion is based on??..
( as far as I read, the first batch of owners seem to be thrilled about Phoenix SQ)



Note the commercial links in the sig. Methinks we're dealing with 'creative' spam here.

EDIT: Mr. Kay's equipment looks very impressive, but it's actually 'stolen' from boomana's sig.
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[To the mods: feel free to delete this with the rest of the posts.]
 
Jul 13, 2009 at 10:43 AM Post #1,505 of 3,352
Reported Kay's post. It's a spambot that is re-posting other people's posts.

Don't forget that the Beta 22 is a DIY amp, so the exact sound would be dependant on the built somewhat. Also, the Beta 22 was designed primarily to drive headphones, whereas the Phoenix is based on a pre-amp.
 
Jul 13, 2009 at 11:13 AM Post #1,506 of 3,352
Quote:

Originally Posted by Currawong /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Reported Kay's post. It's a spambot that is re-posting other people's posts.

Don't forget that the Beta 22 is a DIY amp, so the exact sound would be dependant on the built somewhat. Also, the Beta 22 was designed primarily to drive headphones, whereas the Phoenix is based on a pre-amp.



You are absolutely correct Curra, thats what I just Pm'ed Drosera - the B22 although slightly superior than Phoenix (though there is still a slight doubt about B22 not being as neutral as Phoenix), it is a DIY - making the build quality dependent on the maker, and also at least for people like me, the preamp section of the Phoenix is surely a big plus, and more than anything else, I guess it is the price of Phoenix which makes it more attractive to me.
 
Jul 13, 2009 at 11:15 AM Post #1,507 of 3,352
Quote:

Originally Posted by sandchak /img/forum/go_quote.gif
You are absolutely correct Curra, thats what I just Pm'ed Drosera - the B22 although slightly superior than Phoenix (though there is still a slight doubt about B22 not being as neutral as Phoenix), it is a DIY - making the build quality dependent on the maker, and also at least for people like me, the preamp section of the Phoenix is surely a big plus, and more than anything else, I guess it is the price of Phoenix which makes it more attractive to me.


The Beta22 can be easily used as a preamp as well. In fact, it can even be used to drive speakers.
 
Jul 13, 2009 at 11:25 AM Post #1,508 of 3,352
Quote:

Originally Posted by XXII /img/forum/go_quote.gif
The Beta22 can be easily used as a preamp as well. In fact, it can even be used to drive speakers.


Thanks for pointing that out, and although I knew about it, I should have phrased my post more correctly. What I meant was that Phoenix is based more on a preamp. which makes the preamp section really good apart from headphone amp. I am not saying that the B22 does not do a good job as a preamp, but from what I have read out here about Phoenix, it seems to shine as Preamp.
 
Jul 13, 2009 at 3:24 PM Post #1,509 of 3,352
There are several issues that the comparisons with a B22 barely touch on.

1) Production versus DIY or Private Commission -A production Amplifier will have very little unit to unit variation. A DIY unit is exactly that, the outcome is dependent on many factors: Builders Skill, Chosen configuration, Parts selection.

So when you order a Phoenix in about a month you'll receive the same amp that everyone has been writing about. If you decide to build a B22 you're gambling on your own skill and ability to choose the right parts and build it perfectly, and oh yeah enjoy the flexible warranty.

2) Features - Sure the B22 can be used as a preamp or even to drive ultra efficient speakers. The fact however is that no one has built a B22 with the number of inputs and outputs, remote control, and ergonomic sophistication that the Phoenix offers. Could someone do so? Sure, maybe, but at what cost? The fact is that even the slickest B22's are fairly crude ergonomically compared to the Phoenix. So if you want remote controlled multiple inputs switched with remote relays with volume memory a B22 is not in the running.

3) Time - How long does the average DIYer take to complete a B22? How long does it take for a commissioned B22 to be built? I believe that the lead time for a Phoenix is about a month.

4) Cost - The Phoenix will now set a person back about $1350 delivered to the US. I haven't researched it but the impression I have gathered from my readings here is that is also about what a well configured B22 might cost someone who DIY's it(Not counting labor). A B22 is beyond the DIY ability of most members (Myself included) so commissioning a B22 is what most members would have to do. I have no idea what such a commission might cost (Members seldom state what their custom built amp cost), but I would guess that a stripped B22 might go for $2000 or so, how much would one cost with 5 inputs, remote control, and separate power supply? If available it could top $5000

The fact that which amp sounded better ended up being debatable is the greatest endorsement of the Phoenix ever. For me I haven't seen a B22 that does even part of what I'd like my main amp to do, so to me the winner is obvious.

If I had unlimited money it would be nice to commission a Loaded two chassis B22 using all of the Audiophile parts that I know make audible differences. Such a machine would cost well in excess of $5000. Unfortunately I don't have unlimited money so such an amp is not an option. I would however prefer a Super-Phoenix. I imagine Kingwa building an amp on two larger chassis, with all of the features of the Phoenix (Maybe a couple of more inputs, maybe a tape loop), but better power supply and built with Audiophile grade parts. For such a Super Phoenix I might be able to dig up $3000-$5000, and based on the fact that the Phoenix (Without much in the way of Audiophile parts) is already close to a B22 just imagine what a Super-Phoenix might sound like. Heaven comes to mind.
 
Jul 13, 2009 at 4:03 PM Post #1,510 of 3,352
Wonderful commentary regarding the Phoenix and the B22. Now I know why your handle is "Yikes,"....A wonderful tease to buy the Phoenix. (at least for me..)
 
Jul 13, 2009 at 4:21 PM Post #1,511 of 3,352
One of the guys at the show who is an ear, nose & throat doctor and who gets regular hearing check-ups said there was no comparison.... the Phoenix was the better amp by a landslide, that they weren't even in the same league. And my girlfriend had that impression, too. So I guess it all comes down to personal preference at this level. <sigh>

And by the way, I randomized the order of the listening tests: Some people heard the Phoenix first and the B22 second. Some people heard the B22 first and the Phoenix second. I don't remember based on what order who chose what amp as their favorite.

Clearly one of the amps has a coloration. But which one................ you'll have to wait. But I really think it was the B22 and here's the main reason: I have heard no other headphone amp that gave the HD800 the kind of bass slam that the balanced B22 gave them. That makes me think it is artificially bumping up the bass and mid-bass.
 
Jul 13, 2009 at 5:00 PM Post #1,512 of 3,352
Quote:

Originally Posted by IPodPJ /img/forum/go_quote.gif
One of the guys at the show who is an ear, nose & throat doctor and who gets regular hearing check-ups said there was no comparison.... the Phoenix was the better amp by a landslide, that they weren't even in the same league.


You mean an otorhinolaryngologist.
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I can't wait to have your impressions on your in depth comparaison of both amps.
Good job on the reviews PJ.
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Jul 13, 2009 at 5:19 PM Post #1,514 of 3,352
Quote:

Originally Posted by sandchak /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Thanks PJ for organizing such a great meet, if I was from that part of the world, I am sure I would have been there..
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I am sure with the REF1 in the chain, it will make much difference, but for comparison sake, it would have the same effect on B22, so in my opinion the B22 still has a edge over Phoenix.

That being said, considering the price of Phoenix and the fact that it still manages give the B22 a run for its money, makes me believe that Audio GD has achieved in producing one of the best SS amps in the market - Good for us !..
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True but you are forgetting that you can connect the Ref-1 to the Phoenix with CAST, further refining the sound (vs. RCA or XLR), if only slightly to my ears, with my equipment (FBI-500 and Mirage speakers- maybe more noticeable with the Phoenix and HD800's).
 
Jul 13, 2009 at 5:31 PM Post #1,515 of 3,352
Quote:

Originally Posted by IPodPJ /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I also listened to santacore's C-2C and I was surprised at what a good amp it was. Considering the price it is an absolute steal.


You should hear what the stepped attenuator upgrade does for it. I'm totally impressed by the results. The ALPS RK27 it replaced is holding the C-2C back.

Peete.
 

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