Are Super High End DAPs Really Worthy?

[Sonywalkmanuser]

I feel that Sony is well ahead of other DAP manufacturers in the aspect of Digital Signal Processing with the DSEE HX AI upscaler, the soundstage effect that you get from this upscaler is really something very unique that you have to experience for yourself. You have to pair up to a Sony IEM or Sony Headphone(especially if it's 4.4mm balanced) for the best experience with DSEE HX, you still can get the effect on other brand headphone or iem, though the effect is not as well tuned/optimized.

The latest DSEE HX automatically performs the optimum upscaling pattern based on the accumulation of huge amount of machine learning data as soon as the music starts to play, and the optimum processing according to the timbre, rhythm, etc. of vocals and musical instruments. to hold.

Especially effective is "DSEE HX", which upscales the quality of the sound source to high resolution quality equivalent to 192kHz / 32bit. The high tones of the piano are smoothed, giving a spacious room. The sound field in the height direction is more expansive as if it goes beyond the ceiling, and the timbre of the piano becomes very lively and enjoyable.

https://getnavi.jp/av-2/445420/2/

How it works:
https://translate.google.com/transl....sony.jp/feature/products/dseehx/&prev=search

This new DSEE-HX AI found on the A50, DMP-1Z, A105, ZX507 and the upcoming Xperia 1 Mk2.

 

[dazzerfong]

It’s a mystery why it was done? Yet it’s obvious to people who change their region code and get a different sound. If the sound is better or worse would be subjective of course, but there is no denying the sound is different per region. I’m not laughingly......speculating/suggesting at all; except for the reasons behind it. I’m simply saying that Sony may think that each region has a sound which caters to it, same as hamburger is not as popular in India. You can choose to believe what you want but I’m simply relaying what has been found to be true from an enormous group of Walkman owners. Why is anyone’s guess?

If that's the case, that means that different regions will have more bass, and others will have more treble, etc. Yet no matter the region, the frequency response is flat (as it should be).

If it's in terms of soundstage, that's even more confusing as that's universally wanted. If the region difference is really down to 'preferences', I'd chalk it up to anatomy: different ethnic groups have slightly different anatomic features. Taking that into account, create a unique IIR filter for each region for convolution?

Now I'm just spitballing................

Oh, and hamburgers are not popular in India as 99% of the country doesn't eat beef: no mystery there.

The reason I don't believe it is because I tried experimenting with the region. Specifically, I had a bog-standard AU version of the ZX300 running on 2.01, and my one running some modified firmware by a member here. Can't tell a hint of difference, even with a dedicated A/B switcher which usually makes things easier to tell.

I feel that Sony is well ahead of other DAP manufacturer in the aspect of Digital Signal Processing with the DSEE HX AI upscaler, the soundstage effect that you get from this upscaler is really something very unique that you have to experience for yourself. You have to pair up to a Sony IEM or Sony Headphone(especial if it's 4.4mm balanced) for the best experience with DSEE HX, you still can get the effect on other brand headphone or iem, though the effect is not as well tuned/optimized.



How it works:
https://translate.google.com/transl....sony.jp/feature/products/dseehx/&prev=search

This new DSEE-HX AI found on the A50, DMP-1Z, A105, ZX507 and the upcoming Xperia 1 Mk2.

That's the interesting thing Sony's pushing towards: better DSP. The previous implementations of DSEE have been very minimal at best, so quite interested in seeing what it can do to sub-par recordings.

Also, don't see why you need a Sony IEM for the best experience: is there a special encoder in Sony's IEMs that, unless detected, will provide a gimped effect?

 

[Redcarmoose]

If that's the case, that means that different regions will have more bass, and others will have more treble, etc. Yet no matter the region, the frequency response is flat (as it should be).

If it's in terms of soundstage, that's even more confusing as that's universally wanted. If the region difference is really down to 'preferences', I'd chalk it up to anatomy: different ethnic groups have slightly different anatomic features. Taking that into account, create a unique IIR filter for each region for convolution?

Now I'm just spitballing................

Oh, and hamburgers are not popular in India as 99% of the country doesn't eat beef: no mystery there.

The reason I don't believe it is because I tried experimenting with the region. Specifically, I had a bog-standard AU version of the ZX300 running on 2.01, and my one running some modified firmware by a member here. Can't tell a hint of difference, even with a dedicated A/B switcher which usually makes things easier to tell.



That's the interesting thing Sony's pushing towards: better DSP. The previous implementations of DSEE have been very minimal at best, so quite interested in seeing what it can do to sub-par recordings.

Also, don't see why you need a Sony IEM for the best experience: is there a special encoder in Sony's IEMs that, unless detected, will provide a gimped effect?

Much of the marketing is just that marketing. Though as a whole the audiophile community has come to terms with tone generalizations. Though I’m pretty sure they wouldn’t be as detailed as Sony’s regional segregation? I once heard that China likes more treble oriented things due to the style of instruments and music they listen to. If anything these changes are small and maybe wouldn’t even matter to common folks on the street?

So much of this hobby is prepaid conformational bias. We spent money so stuff must sound better? We think it will sound better so it does as a kind of pre-programmed and expected success. Of course there is also the group hype which occurs from many coming up with ideas. Probably time is the only test, added to long term ownership which starts to validate any ideas and shed light on the nonsense.

As consumers it’s simply our freedom to choose what we want to use and believe and what we simply would view with suspicion or indifference. It’s just nice to have choices even if they are confusing.

In the end player tone choices are amazingly subjective with it being different for everyone. Some actually have reverted back to the standard firmware and use the Japan region.

It’s complicated and in my experience it’s a different balance for everyone depending on what gear, music, tone preferences and IEMs are used.

Some people notice the changes more than others. But there is no right or wrong way to make this hobby a success. Everyone hears different and has a history of liking a specific tone, or they are on a learning trajectory into liking a specific tone. Hopefully when they find it they can forget about gear and concentrate on music.

My view is that firmware is just like IEMs, in that there will be fans of heavy bass, or bright treble and so on. Also people now have physically modified their Walkmans with different internal wires and capacitors. Thus many have physically reached a different end tone and want the firmware to support it.

 

[Sonywalkmanuser]

Also, don't see why you need a Sony IEM for the best experience: is there a special encoder in Sony's IEMs that, unless detected, will provide a gimped effect?

In general terms, each brand of audio gear has it's own sound signature, this site has it described in detail:
https://majorhifi.com/sound-signature-by-brand-iems/

With DSEE HX, it alters two parts of the music, one in the tonality/timbre and the other part in the soundstage/imaging side.

DSEE HX has a tendency to thicken and sharpen the tone, making music sound more pronounced and dynamic. If your iem/headphone is already very aggressive sounding or analytical sounding, DSEE HX might make things sound worse off by making music sound way too fatiguing(overly sharp) to listen to. Modern Sony sound signature tend to be on the more neutral, warmer side of things, so adding DSEE HX sharper tonality on top won't be over fatiguing.

On certain iems/headphones with more closed soundstage, even if you add DSEE HX effect on top of it, it might not show up or just adds too little effect.

I don't believe there's a special encoder in sony's audio gear, it is just that DSEE HX's tonality changes and soundstage improvement suits Sony's own audio gear's sound signature more. And the fact that Sony engineers will be using their own audio gear to perfect the effect adjustments of DSEE HX. Basically in two word: Better Synergy.

 

[Tempy-17]

I never use Sony DSEE HX. Think it sounds fake. I'd rather have the original proper sound. But I always use BBE effects on the Cowons. They are actually special.

 

[vodanhkhack]

So in short: "Are Super High End DAPs Really Worthy? "

Answer:

1)They may be not that "worthy" (?) Most of the time, they maybe overpriced.
However,
2) Most DAP are different and superior to smartphones.
3) The price of "Super High End DAP" is understandable and acceptable in this niche market.

???????!!!!!!

 

[countryboyhk]

A&K is doing very well to test the highest price tag of a DAP can be set. So, they can squeeze the most money from your pocket, and they deserve that.
In order to make the new model to sell, the factory has to tune it differently or improve the resolution. But I don't like every time they come up a new model, its highs become more unbearable. When you compare the tuning of AK120 and SP1000, i just wonder how the factory can endure this "hi-res highs" in SP1000 ? I am listening to music, not dissecting it, and I don't find its sounds enjoyable anyway. I decided to quit the game they are playing. The last super expensive DAP I bought was Cowon P1, it costed about $900 on discount.

 

[Redcarmoose]

A&K is doing very well to test the highest price tag of a DAP can be set. So, they can squeeze the most money from your pocket, and they deserve that.
In order to make the new model to sell, the factory has to tune it differently or improve the resolution. But I don't like every time they come up a new model, its highs become more unbearable. When you compare the tuning of AK120 and SP1000, i just wonder how the factory can endure this "hi-res highs" in SP1000 ? I am listening to music, not dissecting it, and I don't find its sounds enjoyable anyway. I decided to quit the game they are playing. The last super expensive DAP I bought was Cowon P1, it costed about $900 on discount.

Tone is......everything.

 

[mwhals]

EU has its own limitations due to law. However, the fact that you're suggesting region coding makes such an appreciable difference is the thing that makes no sense to me, and thus why I personally don't believe in these 'tweaks'. Like you already did the hard work, why would you do even more work to make it crappier for everyone else?

Not knocking on anyone who claims there's a difference: I'm just saying, short of a rational explanation, makes absolutely no sense why they'd go through the trouble of doing this.

The WM1A/WM1Z thread has scores of people that hear different tuning from different regions. It is well documented in that thread and at least one person made a post describing the sound from the different regions.

 

[travellersolo]

Now the direction seems to have turned to whether Sony has a special edge in the new generations of DAPs...

 

[vodanhkhack]

Now the direction seems to have turned to whether Sony has a special edge in the new generations of DAPs...

Oki, oki so we have to focus the subject : " To be Worthy, or Not to be worthy, that is the question !"

 

[Redcarmoose]

Now the direction seems to have turned to whether Sony has a special edge in the new generations of DAPs...

It should be a thread theme about finding happiness. As really “worthiness” is a matter of opinion and completely subjective.

Folks are going to gravitate towards the sound they like, regardless of brand. In fact the thread would be a disservice if it considered Sony to have an edge.

 

[dpastern]

Show me an iPhone that can play DSD files...there's your answer.

 

[vodanhkhack]

Show me an iPhone that can play DSD files...there's your answer.

Onkyo HF Player: Hi-res, DSD .... music player for ios & android !

 

[dpastern]

Onkyo HF Player: Hi-res, DSD .... music player for ios & android !

pretty sure the internal iPhone DAC doesn't support DSD files...

I'm talking about OOTB, iPhone playing DSD file (hardware). No using a 3rd party DAC to do the job or 3rd party software...

edit: the Onkyo software seems to be Android only (https://www.intl.onkyo.com/downloads/applications/hf_player_android.html 2nd edit - found the iOS page - https://www.intl.onkyo.com/downloads/applications/hf_player.html), good luck getting that installed on an iPhone lol! Just had a read of this page:

https://www.whathifi.com/au/advice/how-to-play-hi-res-music-your-iphone-0

there's no way I'm paying near $100 for the proprietary Apple cables to connect lightning to micro USB so I can use a 3rd party DAC. No thank you. I have an iPhone 6 and it will be the last product that I ever buy from Apple - I refuse to support their monopolistic and anti-competitive behaviour any further.