[gazzington]

The other option is to buy a dragonfly or something to go with your phone

 

[mwhals]

I would suggest an IFI xDSD to pair with your phone. DAC/Amps are lower in price than daps that sound just as good. It will really make your iphone sound great.

 

[Redcarmoose]

Yes, modern Sony walkmans are capable of making 128CBR MP3 sounding better than it sounds through Sony’s various adjustable DSP functions. It’s like photoshop for audio.

What you will be missing out with using iPhones to playback music is the auditory immersion you get with a high performing DAP. It doesn’t mean the dap has to be TOTL to experience this effect.

If you can find a good synergy with a pair of iem and the dap, you will be enjoying music that sounds very engaging to listen to, even if it’s compressed music from YouTube/Spotify etc.

Sony has introduced a whole line of processing which is touted to improve sound quality. You have DSEE HX which has been talked of upscaling sound quality ineptitude by adding in places. Even the engineers say it is shown to work only part of the time by adding to both MP3 files and even adding to 44.1/16bit files.......making them into higher resolution sounding files? Many of the Sony products (even their phones) have the DSEE program running.

The greatest Sony gizmo is the DSD oversampling which isn’t even offered on the Walkmans but seems to add slightly while using the TA amplifier. Obviously direct stream DSD support in balanced mode is a plus with the Walkmans......while they actually play every file format around.

S-Master HX is some original idea they implement which is amplification in the digital domain. Even the hackers which have tried to unlock the program methodology find a black box in the programming where the process in encrypted. Yet even outside of the encryption they are able to move switches and get their desired sound from outside the box?

Even firmware updates also seems to change the tone of the Bluetooth signal, proving something is happening way back in the DAC domain which is different. The big odd ball thing Sony does is make their own DAC chips. Every other company simply buys chips that exist and implement them. Sony has worked for years specializing in FPGA programming allowing them to keep progressing farther.

But as far as processing.......features like the vinyl sounding filter (which can add turntable arm resonance or surface noise)...........many never use any of these features. There is a DC Phase Linearizer which no one uses, I know. There are a few that feel the additional processing works, but some can’t hear it. No one uses the compression system which volume matches all songs.

What the Walkmans are supposed to be is simple and pure. The 1A and 1Z work with Sony’s own adapted version of Linux. But probably the most endearing thing has been non-stop firmware development both from Sony and third party creators. This firmware has shown that even though the DAPs were made in 2016 that they have still supported ways to increase their usability and audio quality. Sony added Bluetooth receiver mode and enabled external DAC mode. Third party creators took the tuning of the $8000 DMP-Z1 and ported it into the 1A and 1Z. But in reality the 1Z is a modded 1A. Sony replaced the aluminum case for OFC copper. The 1Z capacitors are upgraded as well as the 1Z has Kimber internal wire.

In the end it’s probably of value to those that can relate with the ownership lifestyle. Many never leave their house with them. At 16.05 oz, the 1Z would maybe pull your pants down out in the street, if in your pocket? So in many ways the Walkmans are hard to walk around the with.

But later after using them they get addictive. The sound allows someone to really get involved with the music. Just taking one out of a box and trying may not prove anything. Both the balanced side and the 3.5mm side amplifiers need 200 hours use before they begin to sound “normal” so that’s 400 total hours. Though they keep improving as the capacitors age. Everyone who owns one attests to this phenomenon.

 

[Sonywalkmanuser]

How Sony does the digital to analog conversion is quite different from other daps that rely on semiconductor dac chips from Analog Devices, Asahi Kasei Microdevices, ESS, Texas Instruments or Cirrus Logic to do the "dirty work".

Sony does all in one digital signal processing, digital to analog conversion, digital volume control and class D amplification completely within their S-Master HX chip. This technology is Sony proprietary(only found in sony devices).

It has the advantage of high quality sound as all the processing and conversion is done in a single chip which reduces electrical interferences and jitter.

It also has the advantage of lower power consumption and lower heat output as compared to other digital audio player that rely on discrete dacs and external amplifications chips.

The disadvantage is the power output of the amplification limited to 250mW(200mW for ZX507) on balanced due to the limitations of semiconductor technology.

 

[dazzerfong]

S-Master HX is some original idea they implement which is amplification in the digital domain. Even the hackers which have tried to unlock the program methodology find a black box in the programming where the process in encrypted. Yet even outside of the encryption they are able to move switches and get their desired sound from outside the box?

Even firmware updates also seems to change the tone of the Bluetooth signal, proving something is happening way back in the DAC domain which is different. The big odd ball thing Sony does is make their own DAC chips. Every other company simply buys chips that exist and implement them. Sony has worked for years specializing in FPGA programming allowing them to keep progressing farther.

Bluetooth signal (especially SBC) is dependent on the sub-bands your music is encoded with. With LDAC, there's 3 modes which you 'toggle' between. I'm not surprised that a firmware change will change one of the parameters and thus sound ever-so-slightly different.

Pretty sure the S-Master is a discrete IC and not an FPGA, so more expertise in chip design.

Also, class D amplification (digital amplification) is used on a lot of devices and is not some original idea. Personally, I feel that class D is the best for DAPs as their (theoretical) efficiency is higher than A and AB. If you want pure sound quality, just go with a desktop amp.

 

[Redcarmoose]

Bluetooth signal (especially SBC) is dependent on the sub-bands your music is encoded with. With LDAC, there's 3 modes which you 'toggle' between. I'm not surprised that a firmware change will change one of the parameters and thus sound ever-so-slightly different.

Pretty sure the S-Master is a discrete IC and not an FPGA, so more expertise in chip design.

Also, class D amplification (digital amplification) is used on a lot of devices and is not some original idea. Personally, I feel that class D is the best for DAPs as their (theoretical) efficiency is higher than A and AB. If you want pure sound quality, just go with a desktop amp.

Yes, I’m glad https://www.head-fi.org/members/sonywalkmanuser.522960/ was able to explain how the processes works; much better than I. And due to the process being integrated together it’s the reason you don’t have a line out from the Walkman port. For this same reason it’s comical there is no straight analogue in to the TA. I mean there is an analogue in but even a turntable signal would get processed before making it to the amplifier section. The older Walkmans actually had a way to get an analogue line out, yet now we only have the 4.4mm or 3.5mm ports which are volume control connected. Still people defend using two volume controls as sounding great using the Walkmans to a preamp and speakers.

The other great thing has been the continued Sony support. Meaning that eventually Android models will need an upgrade which the device can’t run, thus outdated. Like old Android phones or Apple phones being not able to use any new software downloads as the designers only make stuff for current Android models. Sony has continued to keep supporting firmware from 2016 and making sure it was an improvement. Though we are able to roll back to any old firmware for it’s character of sound. To my ears the new software has continued to get clearer and brighter. Though it’s important to match the firmware with the IEMs and your personal taste of what’s good sounding.

 

[dazzerfong]

Yes, I’m glad https://www.head-fi.org/members/sonywalkmanuser.522960/ was able to explain how the processes works; much better than I. And due to the process being integrated together it’s the reason you don’t have a line out from the Walkman port. For this same reason it’s comical there is no straight analogue in to the TA. I mean there is an analogue in but even a turntable signal would get processed before making it to the amplifier section. The older Walkmans actually had a way to get an analogue line out, yet now we only have the 4.4mm or 3.5mm ports which are volume control connected. Still people defend using two volume controls as sounding great using the Walkmans to a preamp and speakers.

The other great thing has been the continued Sony support. Meaning that eventually Android models will need an upgrade which the device can’t run, thus outdated. Like old Android phones or Apple phones being not able to use any new software downloads as the designers only make stuff for current Android models. Sony has continued to keep supporting firmware from 2016 and making sure it was an improvement. Though we are able to roll back to any old firmware for it’s character of sound. To my ears the new software has continued to get clearer and brighter. Though it’s important to match the firmware with the IEMs and your personal taste of what’s good sounding.

I will say this though: of all the DAPs you can get, without discussing sound quality, Sony's are probably the best to get.
- Actually recent hardware in terms of SoC
- Great battery life (although dampened a bit since the latest generation)
- Out-of-the-box, no-strings-attached support for Play Store.
- Up-to-date OS; none of that 'oh, we're still running Android 7' in 2020.

 

[mwhals]

I will say this though: of all the DAPs you can get, without discussing sound quality, Sony's are probably the best to get.
- Actually recent hardware in terms of SoC
- Great battery life (although dampened a bit since the latest generation)
- Out-of-the-box, no-strings-attached support for Play Store.
- Up-to-date OS; none of that 'oh, we're still running Android 7' in 2020.

That is because Sony is a much larger company than the other DAP manufacturers.

 

[Redcarmoose]

I will say this though: of all the DAPs you can get, without discussing sound quality, Sony's are probably the best to get.
- Actually recent hardware in terms of SoC
- Great battery life (although dampened a bit since the latest generation)
- Out-of-the-box, no-strings-attached support for Play Store.
- Up-to-date OS; none of that 'oh, we're still running Android 7' in 2020.

That’s only with the couple of new Android Walkmans just released. The $1200 Walkman 1A still has superior battery life and sound quality. Though for people that have to stream then they are the way to go, if a person has to have a Walkman.

 

[dazzerfong]

That is because Sony is a much larger company than the other DAP manufacturers.

If you're charging $1000+ for a DAP and you can't have any of the above, frankly that's a joke.

If you're charging $500, sure, concessions expected. But in the case of AK, they're charging $5000....

That’s only with the couple of new Android Walkmans just released. The $1200 Walkman 1A still has superior battery life and sound quality. Though for people that have to stream then they are the way to go, if a person has to have a Walkman.

That's why I said latest generation: the old generation stuff not running Android has some of the most absurd battery life ever.

 

[Sonywalkmanuser]

I think the latest Walkmans zx500 and a100 still offers quite decent battery.

With dsp off and wireless off, you can get between 16 to 18hours of playtime.

With dsp it's about 14 to 12hours of playback time.

Bluetooth playback is between 12 to 10hours.

Streaming will reduce it to under 10hours to 8hours which can vary alot depending on your wifi signal strength and other factors like the app used.

 

[dazzerfong]

I think the latest Walkmans zx500 and a100 still offers quite decent battery.

With dsp off and wireless off, you can get between 16 to 18hours of playtime.

With dsp it's about 14 to 12hours of playback time.

Bluetooth playback is between 12 to 10hours.

Streaming will reduce it to under 10hours to 8hours which can vary alot depending on your wifi signal strength and other factors like the app used.

A lot compared to other DAPs, but not a lot compared to the ZX300 and A45 that can get 30 hours.

 

[Redcarmoose]

The one really perplexing thing has been the Sony region coding. The fact that there are handfuls and handfuls of different player regions all over the world. Now on a positive note it could be like the MacDonalds corporatists making MacDonalds Rice and Chicken for Indonesian listeners. Simple marketing with location only specials to provide the local culture what they want? Still what many think is that the Japanese language only home units sound the best. Isn’t that a funny coincidence?

Luckily Roxbox programmers made software to trick your Walkman into thinking it was programmed at the Sony factory for someplace else!

Though I also think these firmware differences can hold back performance. We all know the UK Walkmans don’t get as loud. And in addition I personally feel Sony firmware kept the 1A in it’s performance zone. It has much of the same parts as the $2000 more Sony 1Z, yet the basic Sony 1A tune could be interpreted by some to increase the value distance between the $1200 1A and the TOTL Sony 1Z?

What we found out was the 1A has a latent potential to scale way up with third party software. If planned or a coincidence, it’s thought of to be true by many 1A owners.

 

[dazzerfong]

The one really perplexing thing has been the Sony region coding. The fact that there are handfuls and handfuls of different player regions all over the world. Now on a positive note it could be like the MacDonalds corporatists making MacDonalds Rice and Chicken for Indonesian listeners. Location only specials to provide the local culture what they want? Still what many think is that the Japanese language only home units sound the best.

Luckily Roxbox programmers made software to trick your Walkman into thinking it was programmed at the Sony factory for someplace else!

Though I also think these firmware differences can hold back performance. We all know the UK Walkmans don’t get as loud. And in addition I personally feel Sony firmware kept the 1A in it’s performance zone. It has much of the same parts as the $2000 more Sony 1Z, yet the basic Sony 1A tune could be interpreted by some to increase the value distance between the $1200 1A and the TOTL Sony 1Z?

What we found out was the 1A has a latent potential to scale way up with third party software. If planned or a coincidence, it’s thought of to be true by many 1A owners.

EU has its own limitations due to law. However, the fact that you're suggesting region coding makes such an appreciable difference is the thing that makes no sense to me, and thus why I personally don't believe in these 'tweaks'. Like you already did the hard work, why would you do even more work to make it crappier for everyone else?

Not knocking on anyone who claims there's a difference: I'm just saying, short of a rational explanation, makes absolutely no sense why they'd go through the trouble of doing this.

 

[Redcarmoose]

EU has its own limitations due to law. However, the fact that you're suggesting region coding makes such an appreciable difference is the thing that makes no sense to me, and thus why I personally don't believe in this 'tweaks'. Like you already did the hard work, why would you do even more work to make it crappier for everyone else?

It’s a mystery why it was done? Yet it’s obvious to people who change their region code and get a different sound. If the sound is better or worse would be subjective of course, but there is no denying the sound is different per region. I’m not laughingly......speculating/suggesting at all; except for the reasons behind it. I’m simply saying that Sony may think that each region has a sound which caters to it, same as hamburger is not as popular in India. You can choose to believe what you want but I’m simply relaying what has been found to be true from an enormous group of Walkman owners. Why is anyone’s guess?