[buonassi]

@Redcarmoose again with the thoughtful and interesting post! This is why I keep my hd600s and dragonfly red. To remember how far I've come along in the journey.

Biggest truth in your last post is about being "different" vs "better". Indeed this is the case with many products going past the diminishing returns knee. My ha2 portable amp by dethonray isn't empirically better than other portable amps, but sounds very weighty, rich, and smooth wet treble. It's different in the sense that it's almost tube like in stage and timbre. Different!

 

[psikey]

I've had a few DAP's now from Hiby, Fiio, Sony and a couple of DAC's such as Mojo/Hugo2/DFR/DFC but for me its always been a balance of Sound Quality vs usability.

Since getting a Fiio BTR5 that cost me just £85 i've really started to question the use of any DAP's let alone expensive ones seeing as it sounds as good as many of the DAC/DAP's I've had using UAPP app on Android. At the moment I'm just using BTR5 wired as a USB DAC at home and LDAC BT while out, mostly with Tidal.

I do still want an import ZX507 as I just love the design/size/controls and sound sig/tuning of Sony. It has an element of "jewellery" about it with higher end. Personally, I'd never pay over £1k for a DAP but have over £1k IEM's (K10U).

My heart is saying import the ZX507 while my brain says an extra £500+ for little improvement in SQ over the BTR5 and actually less usability than a BTR5 with existing phone plus the 24/48 output limit for Streaming Apps!

I did trial a WM1A when Amazon warehouse had some on a Black Friday at a big discount in 2018 (extra 20% off), but I need Tidal support.

 

[dazzerfong]

I've had a few DAP's now from Hiby, Fiio, Sony and a couple of DAC's such as Mojo/Hugo2/DFR/DFC but for me its always been a balance of Sound Quality vs usability.

Since getting a Fiio BTR5 that cost me just £85 i've really started to question the use of any DAP's let alone expensive ones seeing as it sounds as good as many of the DAC/DAP's I've had using UAPP app on Android. At the moment I'm just using BTR5 wired as a USB DAC at home and LDAC BT while out, mostly with Tidal.

I do still want an import ZX507 as I just love the design/size/controls and sound sig/tuning of Sony. It has an element of "jewellery" about it with higher end. Personally, I'd never pay over £1k for a DAP but have over £1k IEM's (K10U).

My heart is saying import the ZX507 while my brain says an extra £500+ for little improvement in SQ over the BTR5 and actually less usability than a BTR5 with existing phone plus the 24/48 output limit for Streaming Apps!

I did trial a WM1A when Amazon warehouse had some on a Black Friday at a big discount in 2018 (extra 20% off), but I need Tidal support.

How about if you look at it from the perspective of battery life and being disconnected from communications? My main problem with phones these days is standby life: listening music through it absolutely whallops the battery.

 

[Sebasistan]

The "not better but different" is I think the most valid observation on most audiophile stuff. From DAPs, DACs, etc. to headphones and IEMs. Objectively, nobody NEEDS more than one pair of headphones and / or IEMs. And sure as hell nobody NEEDS more than one way to play audio files / streams. This is often very difficult to explain to non-head-fi'ers. Why does one own several pairs of these often times quite pricey items? Other than it being just another capitalist cargo cult? Well, they all sound great (compared to, say, beats or air pods), but in addition they all sound DIFFERENT from one another. Not necessarily BETTER (some more than others).

 

[Redcarmoose]

@Redcarmoose again with the thoughtful and interesting post! This is why I keep my hd600s and dragonfly red. To remember how far I've come along in the journey.

Biggest truth in your last post is about being "different" vs "better". Indeed this is the case with many products going past the diminishing returns knee. My ha2 portable amp by dethonray isn't empirically better than other portable amps, but sounds very weighty, rich, and smooth wet treble. It's different in the sense that it's almost tube like in stage and timbre. Different!

The "not better but different" is I think the most valid observation on most audiophile stuff. From DAPs, DACs, etc. to headphones and IEMs. Objectively, nobody NEEDS more than one pair of headphones and / or IEMs. And sure as hell nobody NEEDS more than one way to play audio files / streams. This is often very difficult to explain to non-head-fi'ers. Why does one own several pairs of these often times quite pricey items? Other than it being just another capitalist cargo cult? Well, they all sound great (compared to, say, beats or air pods), but in addition they all sound DIFFERENT from one another. Not necessarily BETTER (some more than others).

And the reason you have to be weary is the whole different color thing is emotional.............due to when bass, treble or mids get exaggerated. When the soundstage gets pushed way out or even a small frequency gets tweaked, it can come off as emotional and exciting (fun).

Now if that effect can stay emotional and livable then all is great, though many times it’s an exaggerated color far from something you want all the time.

It’s like trying to see the world through lime green glasses; the effect can be entertaining but rarely something you could live with long term.

The strange enigma at times is that flat can be boring, but if a high end manufacturer blends in something like a detailed bright treble then we perceive it was higher resolution. Some folks are fine with that treble-boost as they adapt and settle down with it in daily use.

You read of the treble heads who get something bright way out of their comfort zone. The issue is they don’t know if they can listen long term without fatigue. But after getting used to such a signature; a normal/flat response seems boring.

Newness is the new headphone honeymoon, and newness is that bright new amplifier euphoria. It’s a high and a feeling of progress. But in this hobby the value is in hindsight. Hindsight can be 20/20, and it’s confusing when we try and buy a new product. The other confusion comes from not knowing really what we want.

I’m pretty much into a style of V shape response; so to hang out with another who has been chasing a forward midrange response for years goes to prove how subjective this whole thing is. There is no right or wrong, but everyone has made bad and good purchases.

The question in getting success with a pricy DAP maybe revolves around being content with the sound quality AND tone. The saddest part of this community is the happy people check-out. The greatest posts are very boring really.......it’s like a post card from the other side.

Some members we have not heard from for three years who used to be active on Head-Fi. They are gone because they don’t really need any gear and have the gear they like and want to keep. When they do post it’s maybe to give advice on a subject they can add to, but at the same time they are reporting in. In many ways the goal of Head-Fi is to stop posting. Maybe the people switch over to a music forum or something?

Old Gear:
There could be three levels of gear. The first set of old purchases could be looked at as stepping-stones. Some gear is simply the way we arrived where we are and serve no purchase other than a trip souvenir. Other gear can be that secondary equipment to add contrast to the premium gear as it’s still relatively great to use but not optimal.

 

[technobear]

The saddest part of this community is the happy people check-out.

They may check out but they can never leave!

(if only because eventually the batteries will die)

 

[psikey]

How about if you look at it from the perspective of battery life and being disconnected from communications? My main problem with phones these days is standby life: listening music through it absolutely whallops the battery.

I would except I never get close to using all the battery of my S10+ no mater how much music I listen to each day (I listen less than 8hrs/day).

 

[hkpants]

I would except I never get close to using all the battery of my S10+ no mater how much music I listen to each day (I listen less than 8hrs/day).

I've had long listening sessions with my s10+ via ES100 Bluetooth and it doesn't impact my battery life too much. Screen is definitely a bigger drain than bt audio. But then again, in a thread about DAP, maybe people have much different battery requirements.

On a separate note, I've always been DAP-curious because I like the idea of having a separate unit for music listening, but I mostly use Tidal and I've heard that android DAPs have many software bugs so I'm hesitant.

 

[gazzington]

I own many totl daps but to be honest im getting a lot of use from my dragonfly cobalt. Pc and phone, and its small

 

[dazzerfong]

I would except I never get close to using all the battery of my S10+ no mater how much music I listen to each day (I listen less than 8hrs/day).

I absolutely get walloped by my S8's terrible battery life, so I bought a DAP to compensate.

 

[vodanhkhack]

I absolutely get walloped by my S8's terrible battery life, so I bought a DAP to compensate.

Wow wow you guys buy super - worthy -expensive - ultra - high end DAPs just because of battery and Tidal bluetooth streaming ? Wow wow...

 

[dazzerfong]

Wow wow you guys buy super - worthy -expensive - ultra - high end DAPs just because of battery and Tidal bluetooth streaming ? Wow wow...

A ZX300 hardly is super expensive. For reference, the IEMs I use with it cost many times what I paid for the ZX300. The ZX300 can easily hit 25 hours for me between charges.

The other reason for me is support for 4.4mm. Not because it sounds better, but because it's a much sturdier jack.

 

[vodanhkhack]

A ZX300 hardly is super expensive. For reference, the IEMs I use with it cost many times what I paid for the ZX300. The ZX300 can easily hit 25 hours for me between charges.

The other reason for me is support for 4.4mm. Not because it sounds better, but because it's a much sturdier jack.

Oh, I though we were talking about "super high end DAPs" only in this topic?

 

[Sebasistan]

In many ways the goal of Head-Fi is to stop posting. Maybe the people switch over to a music forum or something?

This, I think, gets to the point of it. Speaking for myself, I only really come here and come here regularly when I have some money to spend and want to get inspired. I may hang around for a few weeks, maybe even a month or two, until I make the next big purchase, and then move on. This has various reasons, one of which is that if I hang around here a lot, I just want to buy more stuff and experiment and get more experience in talking about all the technical issues, but one cannot really do that without having STUFF to try out and play around with. And as I said, I can only reasonably explain to myself and my loved ones the purchases of SO many headphones and MAYBE - just MAYBE - another DAP. Head-fi is a very issue oriented place. That issue (for me) is usually "I have a few hundred bucks, I could use a new pair of cans" - and once that's out of the way, it's months and months if not years of just using the advice and insight gained here "in the field." OR when I have an actual issue with my equipment, want to see if there's updates in firmware, or something just doesn't work the way it should.

But unless I'm in the market for SOME kind of new equipment, I'm not really spending much time here. At least... Not in 'normal,' non-pandemic times.

EDIT
And I admit, we have gone a bit off topic from "are super high end multi $1000 DAPs worth it" to "is audiophile equipment worth it / why head-fi?" but it's a discussion worth having, at least for 'philosophical' reasons.

 

[Redcarmoose]

This, I think, gets to the point of it. Speaking for myself, I only really come here and come here regularly when I have some money to spend and want to get inspired. I may hang around for a few weeks, maybe even a month or two, until I make the next big purchase, and then move on. This has various reasons, one of which is that if I hang around here a lot, I just want to buy more stuff and experiment and get more experience in talking about all the technical issues, but one cannot really do that without having STUFF to try out and play around with. And as I said, I can only reasonably explain to myself and my loved ones the purchases of SO many headphones and MAYBE - just MAYBE - another DAP. Head-fi is a very issue oriented place. That issue (for me) is usually "I have a few hundred bucks, I could use a new pair of cans" - and once that's out of the way, it's months and months if not years of just using the advice and insight gained here "in the field." OR when I have an actual issue with my equipment, want to see if there's updates in firmware, or something just doesn't work the way it should.

But unless I'm in the market for SOME kind of new equipment, I'm not really spending much time here. At least... Not in 'normal,' non-pandemic times.

EDIT
And I admit, we have gone a bit off topic from "are super high end multi $1000 DAPs worth it" to "is audiophile equipment worth it / why head-fi?" but it's a discussion worth having, at least for 'philosophical' reasons.

There is always the question if DAPs in general are “worthy” of ownership? For the longest time we only had desktops and IPods. So the question arises in concept first.

Why even use a DAP?

1) Can you really notice a sound quality difference out in public?

Answer....”Well, I don’t want to leave an expensive desktop in my office so I take a DAP to work.”

Above is one of many answers you read about.

2) Why would you use an expensive DAP at home when a desktop rig is superior?

Answer........”Are you sure desktops are superior?”

These style of questions need to be partially addressed before getting to the main question. And one important reason why the thread title is important is putting all your eggs in one basket. Some people are curious if a single DAP could work for everything? If so maybe that DAP could be both a portable and desktop solution combined into single purchase, thus expensive.

Are high end DAPs worthy over regular priced DAPs?


In my use the DAP gets used at home. It’s convenient as you can go anywhere in the house. Your music is in your hand so changing songs and albums is easier than a desktop. Also maybe good DAPs have a sound? In my use the better DAP is better than my mid-level desktop with IEMs. Though the best desktop I own is better than the best DAP; but not by a lot. So I would have to say (except with full-size headphones) the sound quality issue is a wash, unless someone really wanted that last ounce of SQ? Though most is really about musicality and tone, so many are going to choose the musicality and tone regardless of it being from a DAP or desktop.


So to summarize the question again.

It could actually be a case where your desktop is better than a middle-priced DAP. It could also be the case where an expensive DAP is way better than a person’s desktop rig, with IEMs (depending on the desktop). In these summaries there are obviously variables related to what the member wants to spend and what he currently owns.

Still I’m pretty sure our industry is moving quickly in the direction of IEMs. There is a good chance that high end DAPs could very well be of greater focus here in a few years.

Even the title of this thread shows suspect of the ability of better DAPs in general. It’s also very difficult to quantify the desktop rig you can buy in-total for what you can spend for the TOTL $4000 DAP. Just viewing the size differences between the two is confusing. Meaning how could something small even be worth it?