[Trerit]

Why have a 250 watt @8ohm amp when a 50watt @8ohm one already has more power than what you will ever need for a HE-6.
Why not go for something like a Hegel H80 integrated amp that has 75watt @8ohm.costs less, has quite a decent DAC or something completely different.
If I had it laying around I would use it for it but I would never buy an amp that I need only 1/10 of its power to get my equipment to reach its full potential.
Not saying its a bad amp. Just saying i think its a poor choice when your bucks could go to more DAC or something Instead of more watt.

 

[musicbuff]

Trerit, there seems to be a huge misunderstanding. I did not buy the Primare A32 to power the HE-6. I bought it to power my speaker system (Monitor Audio Gold 300). I wanted one pair of HP's that would be used for ALL my HP listening. I bought the HE-6 and fell in love with its sound. Then I started reading on this thread that speaker amps were best to power the HE-6. I first tried with a vintage Yamaha amp I had laying around (200W @ 8 Ohms). It sounded great, though a tiny bit grainy (caused by the stock cable). So I thought, "If the HE-6 sounds this good with the vintage amp maybe I can take this box out of the mix and just hook it up to the Primare A32 (after all it has 2 sets of speaker taps so why not use the 2nd set for the HE-6?) the pairing is great and I haven't looked back since.

 

[Trerit]

Trerit, there seems to be a huge misunderstanding. I did not buy the Primare A32 to power the HE-6. I bought it to power my speaker system (Monitor Audio Gold 300). I wanted one pair of HP's that would be used for ALL my HP listening. I bought the HE-6 and fell in love with its sound. Then I started reading on this thread that speaker amps were best to power the HE-6. I first tried with a vintage Yamaha amp I had laying around (200W @ 8 Ohms). It sounded great, though a tiny bit grainy (caused by the stock cable). So I thought, "If the HE-6 sounds this good with the vintage amp maybe I can take this box out of the mix and just hook it up to the Primare A32 (after all it has 2 sets of speaker taps so why not use the 2nd set for the HE-6?) the pairing is great and I haven't looked back since.

As I said, its not a bad amp. and if you allready had one for speaker purposes I would have used one myself

 

[LarsHP]

Well, let's look at the HE6 specs. It has a rated impedance of 50 ohms and a rated sensitivity of 83.5 dB - presumably that is for 1 milliwatt input. Using a variation of Ohm's law, power = V*V/R = I*I*R so 1 milliwatt into 50 ohms is 0.224 V rms, or 4.5 mA rms.

This means that 22.4 V rms, or 0.45 A rms will produce 123 dB into your ears, which is above the threshold of pain. 22.4 V rms is about 60 watts into 8 ohms, while 0.45 A rms is only 1.6 watts into 8 ohms - 60 watts into 8 ohms corresponds to 2.7 A rms.

So, it doesn't need a high current output - in fact any speaker amp that is rated at 60 watts per channel into 8 ohms, even a cheap junk amp that current limits into any load below 8 ohms, IS a high current output amp into the 50 ohm load of the HE6, and hurt you without any problems whatsoever.

We agree on much here, but I'd like to point out that HE-6 is measured at Inner Fidelity to need just below 20mW in order to reach 90dB. This translates to at sensitivity of about 77.5dB. This is 6dB lower than spec'ed which means HE-6 need four times more power than "on paper".

 

[Chillzone21]

I have an HE-6 (6 screws) that I run through my power amp (Primare A32 250W @ 8 Ohms) and have no hiss. Volume control is through my Primare Pre32 preamp (max volume on the dial is 75). When listening to the HE-6 the max volume is around 37, with speakers around 50. My DAC is set to LINE for fixed (not variable) output. I also have a vintage Yamaha A-450 integrated amp (1980's 200W @ 8 Ohms) I used to burn in a WyWires Red Series XLR HP cable.The volume knob starts at about 7 o'clock = zero. I barely turn the volume past 8 when listening to the HE-6. There's channel imbalance just past zero but it levels out quickly. Looks like your HE-400i and the HE-1000 impedance is 35 Ohms and meant to be driven with regular headphone amps, not speaker amps. The HE-6's impedance is 50 Ohms and I've had another forum member tell me they wouldn't even drive the HE-6 with an amp as powerful as mine. But the combination works wonderfully and I enjoy it. I had Violectric's V281 HP amp for a while (great HP amp which drove all of my HP's wonderfully with the volume around 9 o'clock for the HE-6). Also had the Sennheiser HDVA 600 HP amp which drove the HD-650 and HD-800 very well. I always run my HP's with balanced XLR cables (for me it greatly improves sound quality). YMMV.

Thanks for the info, I must have had noisy power going into my system with the MF gear. I have been eyeing off the Primare, Parasound, or Cambridge gear next.

I have been reading about not running the HE400i etc, but I tried it out with a 250W pc amp and it blew me away, volume was at 10-11 o'clock and had it at 12 o;clock numerous times. No probs with 35ohm cans. Planars are robust and power hungry, the headroom blows you away. I compared the HE400i and MF gear to the Stax SR-007 and 727, HE400i with MF won hands down. One word HEADROOM.

Blue Hawaii SE amp may be a fair comparison at 200w but at $6k who cares.

 

[musicbuff]

I asked not long ago if anything had replaced the HE-6 and was told the new Susvara will give the HE-6 a run for its money. I don't know. I've customized my HE=6 to my liking (other than the blue tak my mods are different from mod forum recommendations). I haven't heard a Susvara but at $6K I don't think it could be 4-5 times better sounding (diminishing returns). I've also recently been reading about the Stax 007 and 009 with the Blue Hawaii SE and the price is prohibitive. I put the HE-6 on my head and keep wondering why I keep wasting time reading about other HP's. Contentment!

 

[Jozurr]

The Susvaras are not better than the HE-6. I owned them and sold them.

 

[Keithpgdrb]

I have yet to hear a headphone that I like better then the HE6 overall. there are headphones that do some things differently that are also excellent. but the HE6 checks the most boxes FOR ME. so far.

 

[JimL11]

We agree on much here, but I'd like to point out that HE-6 is measured at Inner Fidelity to need just below 20mW in order to reach 90dB. This translates to at sensitivity of about 77.5dB. This is 6dB lower than spec'ed which means HE-6 need four times more power than "on paper".

Good point, but a 60 watt amp will still drive the HE6 to 117 dB SPL, which is just shy of of the pain threshold (around 120 dB). Still loud enough, methinks.

 

[Chillzone21]

Why have a 250 watt @8ohm amp when a 50watt @8ohm one already has more power than what you will ever need for a HE-6.
Why not go for something like a Hegel H80 integrated amp that has 75watt @8ohm.costs less, has quite a decent DAC or something completely different.
If I had it laying around I would use it for it but I would never buy an amp that I need only 1/10 of its power to get my equipment to reach its full potential.
Not saying its a bad amp. Just saying i think its a poor choice when your bucks could go to more DAC or something Instead of more watt.

Separates are better at realism.
Second point, and it is funny you used the 1/10 analogy, because there was one very famous audio engineer who wrote an article explaining that when an amplifier uses only 1/10 of it's output it is then performing at it's optimal performance ratio (e.g distortion at it's lowest etc etc.) Distortion has the most damaging effect on sound. Headroom gives you that clean un-distorted sound.

I had Class A amplifier rated at 50w with the HE400i, because of all the hype with Class A I purchased one. I could not really get the volume to were I wanted it for movies using the A8 Realiser, just not enough juice at un-distorted levels. I read all the technical posts about too much power ratio for sensitivity, db etc etc, LOL connected HE400i to the MF A308CR 250wpc >>>>> Stax killer - GAME OVER.

The amount of power and clean distortion free sound was amazing, the headroom is what it is all about. You can gleam over your tubes at 10wpc or Class A 30-50W amps, I will take the headroom Class A/B 250wpc any day of the week and hook it up to any Hifiman without a second thought. Don't know till you have a go.

Good point, but a 60 watt amp will still drive the HE6 to 117 dB SPL, which is just shy of of the pain threshold (around 120 dB). Still loud enough, methinks.

Loud enough is one thing, but with how much distortion is another > more headroom = less distortion.

I am actually looking for 500wpc amp next, problem is the price for Class A/B, possible with Class D but would prefer not to if I can. There comes a point were 1/10 is no different to 1/20 in distortion, but 1/4 is different to 1/10.

 

[musicbuff]

@ Chillzone21, why a 500wpc amp if the 250 sounds wonderful already? I know the Hifiman's are power hungry, but everything has its limits. No need blowing up a great pair of HP's...just sayin'...

 

[Chillzone21]

@ Chillzone21, why a 500wpc amp if the 250 sounds wonderful already? I know the Hifiman's are power hungry, but everything has its limits. No need blowing up a great pair of HP's...just sayin'...

Yeah 250wpc is enough

 

[Trerit]

Separates are better at realism.
Second point, and it is funny you used the 1/10 analogy, because there was one very famous audio engineer who wrote an article explaining that when an amplifier uses only 1/10 of it's output it is then performing at it's optimal performance ratio (e.g distortion at it's lowest etc etc.) Distortion has the most damaging effect on sound. Headroom gives you that clean un-distorted sound.

I had Class A amplifier rated at 50w with the HE400i, because of all the hype with Class A I purchased one. I could not really get the volume to were I wanted it for movies using the A8 Realiser, just not enough juice at un-distorted levels. I read all the technical posts about too much power ratio for sensitivity, db etc etc, LOL connected HE400i to the MF A308CR 250wpc >>>>> Stax killer - GAME OVER.

The amount of power and clean distortion free sound was amazing, the headroom is what it is all about. You can gleam over your tubes at 10wpc or Class A 30-50W amps, I will take the headroom Class A/B 250wpc any day of the week and hook it up to any Hifiman without a second thought. Don't know till you have a go.



Loud enough is one thing, but with how much distortion is another > more headroom = less distortion.

I am actually looking for 500wpc amp next, problem is the price for Class A/B, possible with Class D but would prefer not to if I can. There comes a point were 1/10 is no different to 1/20 in distortion, but 1/4 is different to 1/10.

I would guess that you will not get any audible distortion using Hifiman EF-6, Schiit Ragnarok, Cavali Liquid Gold. all are below 100watts@8ohm.

"Inaudible is inaudible and you don't get extra brownie points for making it twice as inaudible as another solution". - Kevin Haskins, Exodus Audio

 

[LarsHP]

Good point, but a 60 watt amp will still drive the HE6 to 117 dB SPL, which is just shy of of the pain threshold (around 120 dB). Still loud enough, methinks.

Not long ago the First Watt F1(J) was trumpeted as the best (or close to) amp you could get for HE-6, "taming" excess treble and "anemic" bass. It's about 1W in 50 Ohm... Also, I used to have the Burson Soloist, which is about 1.7W. HiFiMan officially says that HE-6 should have a minimum of 2W. In short, just about any speaker amp will do from a power viewpoint.

As always with audio components, it's about pairing, synergy etc. The ear will sometimes hear limitations that spec's doesn't reveal. I have even had many a good listening hour driving HE-6 directly from my HM901s with balanced amp module. Maximum loudness is definitely limited, but within a healthy listening level it still sounds good - and even with more bass than a 5W (in 50 Ohm) DIY headphone amp I have. So, more power isn't necessarily better in terms of bass amount (even though theory would imply it).

 

[LarsHP]

Yeah 250wpc is enough

I remember that the HiFiMan official site originally stated that the maximum power HE-6 could handle is 15W. This means that anything above 100W (in 8 Ohm) is "wasted".