[hifimanrookie]

Sorry about the comments on the Pinnacle. I thought you were recommending it for the HE-6. Actually the reviewer preferred the sound of the HE-500 to that of the HE-6 with the Pinnacle for obvious reason: the Pinnacle could not drive the HE-6 properly but I do not think that the reviewer ever explicity acknowledged that fact, which steered many people away from the HE-6.

I own every single amp that I mentioned and have used them with the HE-6. I can assure you they can all drive the HE-6 just fine, and this includes the GS-X Mk2, which can drive the HE-6 at the high-gain setting. I never had to turn the volume up beyond 2 PM. However, if your DAC output does not have sufficient gain, then you may have a problem.

I did not make a judgement or real recommendation as to the sonic signature of various amps with the HE-6 as I believe this is a matter of taste. I had many listening sessions with friends at my place and some of them love the sound of the Dark Star and EF-6 with the HE-6. I myself could not stand it and much prefers to pair the HE-6 with the Woo WA5. I love this sound, which some of my friends detested, finding it lacking in attack/articulation (too slow) and way too colored/euphonic in the midrange. That was why I included in the amp list everything I own that could drive the HE -6, leaving it up to the readers to select the one they like through actual listening, which I strongly recommended. Buying an amp for the HE-6, or any high-end headphones based on someone else's advice, no matter how wise, is a very risky business that should not be considered unless there is no other choice.

By the way, when the EF-6 was used with Sophia Electric Magik Box ($2,500-ouch!) the sound improvement with the HE-6 was amazing. This combo outperforms the Woo WA5 in bass slam, micro details and macrodynamics, surrendering to the Woo only in sweetness in the midrange. For a combined retail cost of about $4,000 (compared to about $6,500 for my Woo WA5 with upgraded parts and tubes), that is quite impressive.

For that kind of money u can get urself an custom amp that goes one on one with the best of best...although without the flashy externals... for less money then those top of the bill amps costing 10.000usd or more mostly/partly of how they look...looks are sometimes most expensive part of the amp...my amp would be 1/3 more expensive it it would be totally of bruzhed stainless steel (both enclosures) and some other niftly exterior thingies the builder told me...making it look as expensive as it really was and look how it sounds...but i wanted simple..so i saved myself a small fortune..its solidly made...heavy and inside its only top stuff thats smiling at ya..as it sbould be...

But its ofcourse personal..many dont mind paying a cars worth for an amp partly because it looks absolutely gorgeous in their room..and they both do..dual mono wa234 and the viva...

 

[TonyNewman]

Sorry about the comments on the Pinnacle. I thought you were recommending it for the HE-6. Actually the reviewer preferred the sound of the HE-500 to that of the HE-6 with the Pinnacle for obvious reason: the Pinnacle could not drive the HE-6 properly but I do not think that the reviewer ever explicity acknowledged that fact, which steered many people away from the HE-6.

I own every single amp that I mentioned and have used them with the HE-6. I can assure you they can all drive the HE-6 just fine, and this includes the GS-X Mk2, which can drive the HE-6 at the high-gain setting. I never had to turn the volume up beyond 2 PM. However, if your DAC output does not have sufficient gain, then you may have a problem.

I did not make a judgement or real recommendation as to the sonic signature of various amps with the HE-6 as I believe this is a matter of taste. I had many listening sessions with friends at my place and some of them love the sound of the Dark Star and EF-6 with the HE-6. I myself could not stand it and much prefers to pair the HE-6 with the Woo WA5. I love this sound, which some of my friends detested, finding it lacking in attack/articulation (too slow) and way too colored/euphonic in the midrange. That was why I included in the amp list everything I own that could drive the HE -6, leaving it up to the readers to select the one they like through actual listening, which I strongly recommended. Buying an amp for the HE-6, or any high-end headphones based on someone else's advice, no matter how wise, is a very risky business that should not be considered unless there is no other choice.

By the way, when the EF-6 was used with Sophia Electric Magik Box ($2,500-ouch!) the sound improvement with the HE-6 was amazing. This combo outperforms the Woo WA5 in bass slam, micro details and macrodynamics, surrendering to the Woo only in sweetness in the midrange. For a combined retail cost of about $4,000 (compared to about $6,500 for my Woo WA5 with upgraded parts and tubes), that is quite impressive.

 
That's really interesting - thanks for posting this info.

 
I had no idea you had heard the WA5 vs GS-X Mk2 driving the HE6 first hand. I can only guess Frank got it wrong on the GS-X Mk2, or perhaps didn't have enough grunt on the DAC output for the HE6 pairing. The fact that the DAC output comes into play suggests that the HE6 is pushing the GS-X Mk2 to the limit - but I take your word that it can do it justice with the right DAC pairing.
 
I feed my WA5 from an Auralic Vega DAC and the results are stunning. Careful tube matching on the WA5 is a must, as it can get thick and heavy with the wrong tube setup.
 
Tyll did the HE6 a big disservice in that review. What I find a little disturbing is that he has never given any sort of update or revision with a more appropriate amp paired to the HE6. Using the Apex Pinnacle to drive the HE6 is setting up the HE6 to fail - and fail it did. Not the right gear to use for a review of the HE6 - for the 10K of the Apex Pinnacle a WA5 with WE422As and WE300Bs and TS BGRPs could have been used. That would have been an awesome rig.

 

[Justin_Time]

For that kind of money u can get urself an custom amp that goes one on one with the best of best...although without the flashy externals... for less money then those top of the bill amps costing 10.000usd or more mostly/partly of how they look...looks are sometimes most expensive part of the amp...my amp would be 1/3 more expensive it it would be totally of bruzhed stainless steel (both enclosures) and some other niftly exterior thingies the builder told me...making it look as expensive as it really was and look how it sounds...but i wanted simple..so i saved myself a small fortune..its solidly made...heavy and inside its only top stuff thats smiling at ya..as it sbould be...



But its ofcourse personal..many dont mind paying a cars worth for an amp partly because it looks absolutely gorgeous in their room..and they both do..dual mono wa234 and the viva...

 


I know where you are coming from. Different strokes for different folks.

To me, it has to be the whole experience: sound, look, feel...And I like variety. I would be bored stiff with one single pair of headphones and one single amp even if they were the very best in the world.

I just love the look of the Woo WA5 with tubes, which I also change frequently to get different sounds. Not the least expensive way to go but it is fun...

I do care about value but only up to a point. $4,500-$6,500 IS a lot of money but luckily not enough to buy even a bad car yet..

To put things in perspective, most of high-end headphone gears we own are ALL way past the point of dominishing return. Some of my friends cannot comprhend why anybody would "waste" over $100 on a pair of headphones. "What's wrong with the ones that came with you iPhone?" they asked. To them, I am already beyond any possible redemption for spending over $1,000 on a pair of IEM.

Back at the ranch, I am sure I could have an amp custom-designed to work optimally with the HE-6--and one day I might just ask your advice on what to do for that--but for know I am just having fun trying different things.

 

[shayson1357]

I say you should search in speaker amps(integrateds) and forget any amp targeted at headphones(for your budget), then get bananas or spades depending on your connectors and you're done.
but then again it's not that simple

... you should TRY the he-6 with several speaker amps. get the he-6 re-cabled for use with said amps, and once you've settled on a particular amp(settled as in amazed you

) then go for it.
BUT if you want to go with hifimanrookie's suggestion you have to realize that you'll be stuck with an amp that might perform very well(but might not be to your tastes, unlike what happened with hifimanrookie

) and cannot be resold since it is ...well.... custom made  

 . just my 2cents on the drawbacks of going custom.

 

[TonyNewman]

...
I just love the look of the Woo WA5 with tubes, which I also change frequently to get different sounds. Not the least expensive way to go but it is fun...
...

 
+1.
 
I have a lot of fun with my WA5, and it does so much more than just drive the HE6 well. I have been having a lot of success using the speaker taps on the WA5 to drive the HD800 via the HiFiMan adapter box. Really excellent sound.

 

[Justin_Time]

+1.

I have a lot of fun with my WA5, and it does so much more than just drive the HE6 well. I have been having a lot of success using the speaker taps on the WA5 to drive the HD800 via the HiFiMan adapter box. Really excellent sound.

How much range of volume adjustment do you get with the HD800?

Do you feel that you need more than 25 ohms in series for the HD800?

Cheers!

 

[TonyNewman]

How much range of volume adjustment do you get with the HD800?

Do you feel that you need more than 25 ohms in series for the HD800?

Cheers!

 
About the same gain position as I use when driving the HE6 from the K1K port - 9am to 10am on the knob. 10am is LOUD and not something I use much. 11am is going to damage your hearing, and perhaps the headphone as well.
 
The standard HiFiMan adapter box does the job nicely so far with both the WA5 and the 845 SET amp.
 
For even better sound, I have wired the adapter box to the speaker taps of my 20W 845 SET amp with the Taurus as preamp. This lifts the HD800 to another level again. Hard to describe the sound - I would guess it would be similar to that delivered from the Viva Egoista - another 845 SET amp. It is stunning - simply stunning - and beyond what my WA5 can do with the HD800.
 
I have an Accuphase SS power amp on the way - hopefully taking delivery in a few days. That will become my speaker amp, the 845 SET amp will then be used to drive headphones (like the HD800) via the adapter box with the Taurus as preamp. WA5 will be driving the HE6 via the K1K port.

 

[preproman]

   
The fact that the DAC output comes into play suggests that the HE6 is pushing the GS-X Mk2 to the limit

 
And that it does.  
 
This is a different perspective from a previous GS-X mkII owner for a little over a year.  
 
I absolutely loved the GS-X mkII.  It is one of the best all around headphone amp out there, no question.  If I had multiple headphones yup the GS-X mkII would be my go to amp.  It beat out every other amp I had at that time (EF-6, 4 channel B22, Balanced M3, BHA-1, Emotiva a-100 mini-X) - I sold all of them because of the GS-X mkII.  The EF-6 was on loan.   However, I just felt the HE-6 was pushing the GS-X mkII a little to hard, it was not effortless so to speak.  Had to use high gain, and had to crank the knob up to almost 2:30, 3 o'clock.  
 
Then came in the F1J.  That was all she wrote for the GS-X mkII,  But yet and still, the GS-X mkII remains a very, very good all purpose amp.  Just not the one amp for the HE-6 as it seems to just run out of gas where the F1J was just effortless.  

 

[TonyNewman]

   
.... Then came in the F1J.  That was all she wrote for the GS-X mkII,  But yet and still, the GS-X mkII remains a very, very good all purpose amp.  Just not the one amp for the HE-6 as it seems to just run out of gas where the F1J was just effortless.  

 
I think the WA5 does the same. The 8W combined with the ability to swing plenty of current/voltage via those huge transformers gives it the ability to drive the HE6 with ease. I have never perceived the WA5 as strained or pushing the limits when driving the HE6. In fact, it is hardly working at all. Plenty of gas in the tank to blow your eardrums and/or the headphone drivers apart if you get careless with the gain knob.

 

[hifimanrookie]

I say you should search in speaker amps(integrateds) and forget any amp targeted at headphones(for your budget), then get bananas or spades depending on your connectors and you're done.

but then again it's not that simple :rolleyes: ... you should TRY the he-6 with several speaker amps. get the he-6 re-cabled for use with said amps, and once you've settled on a particular amp(settled as in amazed you ) then go for it.

BUT if you want to go with hifimanrookie's suggestion you have to realize that you'll be stuck with an amp that might perform very well(but might not be to your tastes, unlike what happened with hifimanrookie ) and cannot be resold since it is ...well.... custom made    . just my 2cents on the drawbacks of going custom.

My friend...i dont how it is with other handbuilt/custom amps...but BC amps are sold in a blink at good prices, no matter if they are custom (most are by the way in one way or another) or not....mostly because of their good reputation and also because almost NO ONE sells theirs...instead they keep on sending the amp back to Bc to get it upgraded..as all their amps are built to be upgraded almost until eternity (read ur wallet)...on the Bc forum i read people having their amps and using them for more then 10 years! What they do is upgrading it to better specs...as far i know of its only brand who does that...its a filosofy they stand for...why buy new amp if u can upgrade ur own amp for much less? So almost no one sells his amp..check it urself..most only sell it to pay for stuff in their lifes they need money for...thats why its hard to find many BC amps for sale second hand... they are very rare.

As i said...i dont know how it goes with other custom built amps...but for BC it isnt hard to sell urs..IF U EVER WANT TO SELL...already had two guys wanting to buy mine on the spot (one even wanted my Code-X also!)...one even wanted to pay me what i paid last year....some people just have to much money in their pocket

in my case..i never ever had a component more then 2 years...but this amp i will keep for longer for sure..as will my code-x..both very special pieces of equipment...not the most expensive stuff u can buy..but for sure one of the rigs that showed me the most of emotion while listening to music....

But in the end..its all about personal taste..one like woo audio, others like GS-X, again others swear on vintage Krell and some swear on a blue dot on their amps

In the end its how it moves u in the right way while u listen to music....thats all what matters..no matter what u invest in this crazy hobby.

 

[shayson1357]

"But in the end..its all about personal taste..one like woo audio, others like GS-X, again others swear on vintage Krell and some swear on a blue dot on their amps 

In the end its how it moves u in the right way while u listen to music....thats all what matters..no matter what u invest in this crazy hobby."

exactly what I mean, that's why I told him to try different stuff that's readily available, every component in the audio chain affects the sound in it's own way, one amp might be too warm(for his tastes) while another man might find it just right and not overly warm....etc.... if I had a high budget I'd either build my own amp or have someone build it for me.... going custom gives you the chance to know everything that is going into your build, let's you customize everything to fit your tastes AND has a lot more sentimental value too, especially if it was high-end DIY 

 

[SoupRKnowva]

Since it was brought up on the last page I have to say, the dark star sounds like absolute doo doo with the HE-6s, you'd be better off with a cheap stereo emotiva speaker amp or a mjolnir.

The f1J is still the best I've heard the HE-6s. One of the best headphone rigs I've heard actually.

 

[kothganesh]

My 2 cents. I have tried the HE 6 with the Lyr, Mojo, Emotiva, a JVC receiver, and finally the Stratos Extreme power amp.

I have had very good listening times with the last two amps. The Stratos amp is where I choose to stop for now because of the very good SQ, IMO. I am upgrading my preamp from the Burson Soloist to the Parasound P3.

 

[punit]

My 2 cents. I have tried the HE 6 with the Lyr, Mojo, Emotiva, a JVC receiver, and finally the Stratos Extreme power amp.

I have had very good listening times with the last two amps. The Stratos amp is where I choose to stop for now because of the very good SQ, IMO. I am upgrading my preamp from the Burson Soloist to the Parasound P3.

Nice to see you that finally realised the importance of a good preamp 

 

 

[NoxNoctum]

Thanks for all the advice everyone it is much appreciated. 
 
Before I make any major decisions though --- I'm running HE-6 off Mjolnir right now. My first impressions are... too bright for my taste. It also feels rather fatiguing. Would this change with a better amp and/or burn in time?
 
I've got balanced cables on the way for the LCD-2 so maybe the Mjo/LCD-2 combo will give me what I'm looking for after all.