[daveDerek]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DimitrisZ /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I am thinking to order the ES5 some time in the next months. It seems they are the best of the best someone can buy for the moment.

 
welcome to head-fi, Dimitris. sorry about your wallet! did you have a different user name previously? as nellie pointed out, the es5 is considered to be a top tier iem, and it might be some folks favorite, but as to whether or not it's the best out available is a highly personal decision. jh audio and ultimate ears (in the usa), as well as several other manufacturers in europe and asia put out first rate products that are 'the best' for some users. you might want to research some other of these other customs too, and if possible go to an audiologist who has demo models from some different manufacturers to get an idea what some of these iems sound like. there's another device that should be on the market soon that should be a significant step up from any of these items, based on the demos they showed at canjam last june. that's the jh audio jh3a which has acitve crossovers, 6 channel amplification, and dsp all built into a small outboard box.
btw, where are you located? it's useful to fill out your profile with at least your location, gear present and past, and musical tastes.

 

[daveDerek]

 
Quote:

what is the best way for someone who lives in Perth, Australia to buy a Westone ES5 ?

why take a trip to the usa and visit westone, of course! 

 

 
Quote:

Where did you get your impressions done in Sydney?

this info should always be posted in this thread (folllowing the instrucitons in the first post to make it more searchable):
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/440466/the-audiologists-impressions-thread-pun-most-definitely-intended
 

 

[Anouk]

@davederek Ah yes I forgot about the jh3a, if you are mostly bound to a desk and an audio purist that would indeed be the best solution because you then already have quite a nice dac htat you can plug into your ocmputer and a dedicated amp for the iem. Ans of course the revolutionary active cross-over part. It is not sure yet though when it will be released and then its always best to wait till some reviews come out. For me that wait was too long. Greetings, Anouk,

 

[Wildcard30]

Quote:

I just use a Cowon J3 (+ EQ) with my ES5s on the road.
Sounds great to me!
Less bulk to carry around too.
 
I am however considering getting an amp or some sort.
Leaning towards the iBasso P4 at the moment.
 
I agree with Anouk above that the all-in-1 DAP solution is a very good choice.
Wanted to get the 601/602 but the J3 went on sale locally so I sprung for that.
Don't regret it at all.

What EQ settings are you using?
 
 

 

[cooperpwc]

Quote:

Originally Posted by daveDerek /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
welcome to head-fi, Dimitris. sorry about your wallet! did you have a different user name previously?

There's a good question. 

 
Welcome to Head-Fi. Sorry about your VPN. 

 

[b0ck3n]

I bet you're real popular at the office... I'm also very much put off by your stance on sources and amplification. Your "golden ears", if you truly can hear a difference between 16/44 and 24/192, make you a minority and perhaps you should try not to offend everyone on a thread in your first post.
 
 
Quote:

 

Hello all.. I had been a member to Head-Fi for years but about 5 years ago I decided to do the transition to speakers, and I just left the headphone hobby for a long time… 
 
Now that I am working in a really loud office with a lot of irritating people talking all the time, I started again to consider buying a really nice pair of headphones so that I can isolate myself in my personal music space… I am thinking to order the ES5 some time in the next months. It seems they are the best of the best someone can buy for the moment. I had a question though concerning the reviews and the opinions I have read from many users in this thread. 
 
How is it possible to review headphones like these by using just ipods and iphones (in the best cases with amplifiers). The internal DACs of any iphone/ipod dac produces a flat sound, two dimensional and plastic. Isn't it like you are buying a magnifying glass just to magnify a really bad printed photo?
 
Do these headphones in the end scale well in a good dac/amp system? Is someone going to get sound compared to really good speakers? 
​

 

 

[Anaxilus]

Well, unless an iPod is setup via LOD to your speaker system I don't know if one can make a comparative judgement listening to ibuds from the iPods amp section.

 

[DimitrisZ]

Quote:

I bet you're real popular at the office... I'm also very much put off by your stance on sources and amplification. Your "golden ears", if you truly can hear a difference between 16/44 and 24/192, make you a minority and perhaps you should try not to offend everyone on a thread in your first post.
 

b0ck3n, I really respect all the users in this thread. I didn't try to offend anyone (well till now), In contrast I think you try to offend me stating about my golden ears as a response to just a question based on facts. A stance like yours led me do such a comment in first place. Aren't these headphones men't to be used from people with "golden ears"? Doesn't just the fact that you are buying a $900 custom headphone make you a minority? In the end you will state that being an audiophile is an offence. Something has changed in head-fi since the last time I was active… It either has become more "mainstream" or the sound technology has done huge leaps and I just missed it.. We went from the point that if you had a digital server and not an analogue setup you were considered "cheap" to the point that we call "offensive" someone that finds difference between 24/192 and 16/44. I even spot a thread comparing the Sony MDR 7000 to the Shure 535 and claim they have similar sound just because at that point the Sony had comparable price! I suspect there are many people that have no idea about what good sound actually means and think that just spending megabucks to buy a headphone is the most important thing. They then run them from crappy sources, not getting their full potential. After a while they find a cheaper headphone that has comparable sound with their supur douper expensive one from that source. And then they think that this headphone is at the same quality and praise them… I hope in the end this not to lead in a downspiral on the quality of the expensive headphones pushing the companies to create colored headphones on their flagship line just to sound nice with cheap sources...
 
But lets not go out of topic! Thanks everyone for your advices for the DACs and for the time spent on your replies, Ill have a look and post further impressions.. About my wallet, it's been already punished to death all these years..

 

[b0ck3n]

What bothered me in your first post, that you've just re-iterated, is that people who haven't, or don't intend to, couple the ES5 with a "high-end" source and amplifier have no business even talking about it. I don't know how you can't see how offensive that is.

 

[spazz]

I used to think that my Shure SE535's were great, but they lack in so much detail.
 
I'm going through ES5 withdraws <laugh>.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

 
[size=medium]

Hello all.. I had been a member to Head-Fi for years but about 5 years ago I decided to do the transition to speakers, and I just left the headphone hobby for a long time… 
 
Now that I am working in a really loud office with a lot of irritating people talking all the time, I started again to consider buying a really nice pair of headphones so that I can isolate myself in my personal music space… I am thinking to order the ES5 some time in the next months. It seems they are the best of the best someone can buy for the moment. I had a question though concerning the reviews and the opinions I have read from many users in this thread. 
 
How is it possible to review headphones like these by using just ipods and iphones (in the best cases with amplifiers). The internal DACs of any iphone/ipod dac produces a flat sound, two dimensional and plastic. Isn't it like you are buying a magnifying glass just to magnify a really bad printed photo?
 
Do these headphones in the end scale well in a good dac/amp system? Is someone going to get sound compared to really good speakers? 
​

[/size]

I do my IEM reviews both with my best portable gear like a 24/96 DACport or 24/96 HM-801, and with gear that I know many others will use with it, including iPods and iPhones.  I think that it's nice to find an IEM that can sound enjoyable with a simple playback system like iPhone 4 or 6th Gen Nano, but that can scale up and sound magnificent with a better source and amp.  The ES5 fit that criteria.  I will add that in no way do I find the iPhone 4 to sound "flat, 2D or plastic", however hooking up a Pico Slim amp to the iPhone's line out dock definitely improves the sense of space and soundstage size, with better micro-detail, and deepens the bass extension noticeably.  I have not heard a speaker in this price range that can compete with the ES5.
 
Quote:

I think you will have a great time with ES5. Just keep in mind that you don't need a powerful amp to drive it, most desktop amps will make a hiss when connected to it.
Pico DAC to a stepdance might be an elegant solution for your setup. Its an upsampling DAC to 24bit 96KHz. Both pico and stepdance has great reviews here in Head-Fi.

Many desktop amps are still fine with these sensitive IEM and don't hiss - my Woo WA6 and Eddie Current ZDT are two desktop amps that sound exceptional with my custom IEM, and have volume pots that have great channel balance at low volumes.  And yet these are amps that can drive full size phones like the HD800 and HE-5 LE headphones very well too (which need either high voltage swing or a lot of current delivery).
 
The Pico DAC > Stepdance was indeed very nice, but the Centrance DACport in my opinion was slightly better in comparison and it offers a native 24/96 decoding for hi-res recordings.  Even with the 16/44 recordings the DACport worked just as well or better as both a headphone amp or a pre-amp feeding another amp.  Low volume channel balance again was great with IEM.  Where the Stepdance pulled away was in the power levels it could offer to drive more difficult full size phones, or the ability to take an analog input and run on battery (but only 8 hours on a 9v).  I had the pre-production prototype Stepdance here for a while, but declined to buy one after I found out about the low battery life.
 
For everyone else - Other good portable amps for IEM that I'd recommend in a reasonable price range are the iBasso D4 with the OPA1611 opamp upgrade, which makes it an RSA P-51 clone in sound signature/performance, and it also sound very close to the Stepdance and DACport.  And there is the RSA P-51 of course, but it doesn't have a DAC like the D4 and still it costs more.  The P51 did have better low channel volume balance.  The Practical Devices XM5 with AD8065 opamps and BUF634 is great, but it's DAC is only a little better than the iPod line out and not as good as the D4's DAC, or Pico DAC and DACport.  However, their new XM6 which I haven't heard has a choice of Wolfson 8740, or 8741 DAC with ASRC up-sampling to 24/192K.  The amp section is supposed to be almost the same.  The Pico Slim is wonderful with the ES5 or ES3X, but makes the bass in a JH13Pro sound a little boomy, and it has no DAC.  It's sound signature reminds me of an HM-801 but with slightly more sparkle and extension in the highs, although it isn't as powerful as the 801 or the other amps if you need to drive full size phones.

 

[maverickronin]

Quote:

b0ck3n, I really respect all the users in this thread. I didn't try to offend anyone (well till now), In contrast I think you try to offend me stating about my golden ears as a response to just a question based on facts. A stance like yours led me do such a comment in first place. Aren't these headphones men't to be used from people with "golden ears"? Doesn't just the fact that you are buying a $900 custom headphone make you a minority? In the end you will state that being an audiophile is an offence. Something has changed in head-fi since the last time I was active… It either has become more "mainstream" or the sound technology has done huge leaps and I just missed it.. We went from the point that if you had a digital server and not an analogue setup you were considered "cheap" to the point that we call "offensive" someone that finds difference between 24/192 and 16/44. I even spot a thread comparing the Sony MDR 7000 to the Shure 535 and claim they have similar sound just because at that point the Sony had comparable price! I suspect there are many people that have no idea about what good sound actually means and think that just spending megabucks to buy a headphone is the most important thing. They then run them from crappy sources, not getting their full potential. After a while they find a cheaper headphone that has comparable sound with their supur douper expensive one from that source. And then they think that this headphone is at the same quality and praise them… I hope in the end this not to lead in a downspiral on the quality of the expensive headphones pushing the companies to create colored headphones on their flagship line just to sound nice with cheap sources...
 
But lets not go out of topic! Thanks everyone for your advices for the DACs and for the time spent on your replies, Ill have a look and post further impressions.. About my wallet, it's been already punished to death all these years..

 
Quote:

What bothered me in your first post, that you've just re-iterated, is that people who haven't, or don't intend to, couple the ES5 with a "high-end" source and amplifier have no business even talking about it. I don't know how you can't see how offensive that is.

 
I'm with bock3n on this one.  Spending money on your transducers is the most important thing, DimitrisZ.  They hit the wall of diminishing returns a lot later than anything else in the signal chain so spending money on transducers will give you the most SQ for your money.  In most cases it doesn't make sense to go nuts upgrading the rest of your signal chain unless you've already got the best (to your tastes) transducers you can afford.  You usually shouldn't bother inching up the diminishing returns of DACs and amps until its cheaper than upgrading your transducers.
 
Its simple.  If you've already got a top tier transducers and have more money to spend then it makes sense to spend that money on a better source and amplification because you can't upgrade your transducers.  This is especially true with IEMs since they're so easy to drive.  An ipod, LOD, and cmoy plus a top teir custom is going to sound better than a universal which costs half the price but is fed from a world class source and amplifier.  That top tier custom may not be living up to its full potential from a humbler source, but its still the best way to spend your money.
 
That's about as politely as I can put it.

 

[Jazzyfi]

Sorry but you are wrong to assume that custom was made for people with "golden ears" (audiophile). It is clearly stated in Westone website that it is made for "performing musician". When I perform I don't care if my signal comes from 24bit/192KHz, I'm happy if I can get enough isolation and good overview of what the band is playing. In fact we are using something like this to transmit the signal, and I can assure you it is far from what you called audiophile quality.
 
Quote:

b0ck3n, I really respect all the users in this thread. I didn't try to offend anyone (well till now), In contrast I think you try to offend me stating about my golden ears as a response to just a question based on facts. A stance like yours led me do such a comment in first place. Aren't these headphones men't to be used from people with "golden ears"? Doesn't just the fact that you are buying a $900 custom headphone make you a minority? In the end you will state that being an audiophile is an offence. Something has changed in head-fi since the last time I was active… It either has become more "mainstream" or the sound technology has done huge leaps and I just missed it.. We went from the point that if you had a digital server and not an analogue setup you were considered "cheap" to the point that we call "offensive" someone that finds difference between 24/192 and 16/44. I even spot a thread comparing the Sony MDR 7000 to the Shure 535 and claim they have similar sound just because at that point the Sony had comparable price! I suspect there are many people that have no idea about what good sound actually means and think that just spending megabucks to buy a headphone is the most important thing. They then run them from crappy sources, not getting their full potential. After a while they find a cheaper headphone that has comparable sound with their supur douper expensive one from that source. And then they think that this headphone is at the same quality and praise them… I hope in the end this not to lead in a downspiral on the quality of the expensive headphones pushing the companies to create colored headphones on their flagship line just to sound nice with cheap sources...
 
But lets not go out of topic! Thanks everyone for your advices for the DACs and for the time spent on your replies, Ill have a look and post further impressions.. About my wallet, it's been already punished to death all these years..

 

 

[DimitrisZ]

Thanks for your insightful response HA The Centrance DACport is really tempting! Is it possible to describe me the difference of sound between this and the Pico DAC when you are using them with the ES5?? Thanks again..

 

[b0ck3n]

I was going to wait until I had time to spend by the computer to flesh out my previous post, but the two posters above me did a fine job and I'm hoping we can leave it at that.That said I think alot of people, myself included, will be interested in hearing what you (DimitrisZ) have to say after you've actually heard the ES5.