[davidmolliere]

Always a matter of taste I guess... And depending on fit, conduct shape, etc...

That and custom vs universal, willing to bet @mvvRAZ custom sounds different from the demo unit...

Tips do affect treble presentation sometimes in a big way...

 

[MrLocoLuciano]

That and custom vs universal, willing to bet @mvvRAZ custom sounds different from the demo unit...
Tips do affect treble presentation sometimes in a big way...

Included in fit It's a discussion we had already on other topic.
Maybe @Vision Ears can tell us more about their vision of the differences between custom and universal ?

 

[mvvRAZ]

That and custom vs universal, willing to bet @mvvRAZ custom sounds different from the demo unit...

Tips do affect treble presentation sometimes in a big way...

Definitely. I remember when I listened to it at the Canjam my very first impression was that of very forward, somewhat hot treble

 

[MrLocoLuciano]

Tips do affect treble presentation sometimes in a big way...

As ear canal can also from one to another, depending on depth insertion, shape...

 

[davidmolliere]

Included in fit It's a discussion we had already on other topic. Maybe @Vision Ears can tell us more about their vision of the differences between custom and universal ?

Well not really included in fit, to me custom goes beyond just perfect fit.

I have perfect fit with some universal including the Elysium demo. I am lucky with straight and big ear canals... and I had perfect universal fit before with universal version of customs IEM I later purchased and it was *always* different.

The universal is most of what the custom is usually but a change in bass response, lower mids or treble can change the overall signature in not such a small way. That’s why I won’t review the Elysium demo as far as I am concerned : I don’t think it would be a reliable review compared to the custom.

Definitely. I remember when I listened to it at the Canjam my very first impression was that of very forward, somewhat hot treble

My point exactly

As ear canal can also from one to another, depending on depth insertion, shape...

Of course it does the whole point of a custom IEM is so that those differences should be minimized and it sounds like the manufacturer’s intended it to sound... It took me a while to get to CIEM but once you do...

 

[Barra]

Always a matter of taste I guess... And depending on fit, conduct shape, etc...

Agreed, there was a considerable change in the ELYSIUM signature going from the universal demo to the custom. However, I am a special case with a severe bend in my inner ear that make universals hard to fit/seal. My initial universal ELYSIUM thoughts was that it was a perfect mids based monitor that had perfect treble, focus on mids, but bass light. The custom version I felt that the mids were still a focus and perfect, but the bass became more like the universal VE8 - big and bold and full-sized - with a supersized slam and much deeper sub-bass. Makes me wonder how a VE8 custom would sound. So the custom ELYSIUM now has two stars in the show for me, the mids first, but not far behind - the bass which is my ideal bass with lots of textures and strong rumble down low, low, low. Now that leaves the fantastic EST treble as a bystander rather than the star you would expect given that it has an EST. I think this is why @mvvRAZ is saying he wouldn't mind a touch more. Where VE is unique in their tuning of the EST is how it integrates into the rest of the frequency range for maximum texture and detail without making a spectacle of itself. In demoing the Empire Ears Valkyrie and Wraith, I had to listen continuously for a couple of days to get used to the new EST sound before I could stop seeing it as the elephant in the room. Then they sounded wonderful. But the ELYSIUM sounded perfect from the first moment that I put them in my ears.

Another point of interest is how much the ELYSIUM scales. It is wonderful with my iPhone 6, but paired with my desktop Burson Playmate at 2 watts of power boosts the ELYSIUM into an exotic status competing with the 009 and Abyss sounding like their full-grown love child. It is really that good IMO.

So am I the only person with a custom ELYSIUM that feels that the bass is top tier exotic? Or is everyone else VE fans with other custom models that beat the ELYSIUM bass? I cannot figure out why nobody else is talking about that wonderful ELYSIUM bass?

 

[davidmolliere]

@Barra Not suprised by this feedback exactly what I was saying above and also my experience of universal vs custom even with no strange bends

 

[Barra]

BEST CUSTOM FIT EVER - Did I mention that the custom fit was the best I have ever experienced? I have gotten good seals before in my custom at the expense of being tight and a sore ear after an hour listen. I have gotten comfort before at the expense of lost seal during activity, speaking, drinking/eating. However, VE has produced the perfect fit for me that is easy in, easy out, but with suction on removal, it fits so well. It is not too tight or loose in any way, just comfortable. VE has created the best fit I could imagine.

 

[mvvRAZ]

On the topic of perfect

BEST CUSTOM FIT EVER - Did I mention that the custom fit was the best I have ever experienced? I have gotten good seals before in my custom at the expense of being tight and a sore ear after an hour listen. I have gotten comfort before at the expense of lost seal during activity, speaking, drinking/eating. However, VE has produced the perfect fit for me that is easy in, easy out, but with suction on removal, it fits so well. It is not too tight or loose in any way, just comfortable. VE has created the best fit I could imagine.

+ 1 on the fit - it’s become my absolute reference for customs

I think the bass and the treble are both built to be the best support to the midrange they can be, and that is why they can sometimes get overlooked. Not only that, the Elysium has what is possibly the finest, most exciting and textured midrange any IEM or headphone can offer - it becomes difficult to focus on anything else really, mind blowing experience

The subbass should really get an honorable mention I think, especially considering it’s all been executed by a single BA. It comfortably competes with the subbass monsters, love it

I feel like I’m just echoing you by this point but the scalability isn’t talked about enough I agree. Sounds good through my AK SR15, great with my RME ADI 2 DAC and mind blowing with my SP1000M

Will be trying the Brooklyn DAC+ and the SP2000 to see if I can take it a level higher. Also excellent responsiveness to cable swapping imo, which keeps it entertaining

Idk, I guess the pinnacle of my praise for the Elysium would be the fact that i loved it so much I had to get a second

 

[mvvRAZ]

Oh and slightly off topic but universal demo VEs fit brutally well haha - something to think about

 

[buonassi]

Well not really included in fit, to me custom goes beyond just perfect fit.

+1

lower mids or treble can change the overall signature in not such a small way

a huge way! People don't realize what physics does to high frequencies in a very small volume cavity. It's as wonky as bass is in an untreated room. I've always mused that the bass response from headphones coupled with the treble response of near field monitors would be one of the most linear and enjoyable, timbre correct experience there is. Customs usually result in a lesser volume of air between the spout and the eardrum - which shifts the primary resonance higher up. A resonance at 10-11k is much more tolerable than one in the sibilance region (IE 7K) for me at least. Similarly, customs are placed closer to the eardrum which helps negate the standing waves (jagged treble with peaks and nulls) where treble is most noticeable (lower and middle treble).

Keep in mind the above varies greatly with ear anatomy. While primary resonance can't be avoided, the standing waves effect can be ameliorated by the 'severity' of the second bend of the canal. Some folks can tolerate UIEMs better than others. Like you, David, I have long and straight canals with very little bend. This makes UIEMs VERY different from customs.

It took me a while to get to CIEM but once you do...

for me, comfort and sound quality is twice improved over universals. The only risk is in resale. But for me, it's worth it.

 

[davidmolliere]

@buonassi Well said! And yes it's a commitment but hard to go back once you've gone custom... I have tried to get universal to sound like customs with custom silicon tips but it doesn't take you all the way. Those are still tips, and material is different from the shell and overall not an integrated design.

 

[mvvRAZ]

+1



a huge way! People don't realize what physics does to high frequencies in a very small volume cavity. It's as wonky as bass is in an untreated room. I've always mused that the bass response from headphones coupled with the treble response of near field monitors would be one of the most linear and enjoyable, timbre correct experience there is. Customs usually result in a lesser volume of air between the spout and the eardrum - which shifts the primary resonance higher up. A resonance at 10-11k is much more tolerable than one in the sibilance region (IE 7K) for me at least. Similarly, customs are placed closer to the eardrum which helps negate the standing waves (jagged treble with peaks and nulls) where treble is most noticeable (lower and middle treble).

Keep in mind the above varies greatly with ear anatomy. While primary resonance can't be avoided, the standing waves effect can be ameliorated by the 'severity' of the second bend of the canal. Some folks can tolerate UIEMs better than others. Like you, David, I have long and straight canals with very little bend. This makes UIEMs VERY different from customs.



for me, comfort and sound quality is twice improved over universals. The only risk is in resale. But for me, it's worth it.

What I enjoy about that risk is that it forces me to actually use and stick to them for a longer time instead of selling them off after a month or two. A bit more of a commitment that way and I'm also more diligent with the purchase

 

[davidmolliere]

Looks like the Erlkönig made it home, glad it gets some attention it deserves it! (Thanks @lafeuill for the heads up and for making this happen as well )

 

[Barra]

ELYSIUM Review up - https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/review/22939/

My take on the ELYSIUM is that the MIDs are the star of the show,but the BASS comes in a close second being a co-star. Scaled up correctly, this CIEM reaches EXOTIC status and bests my HD800s, HEX, and LCD2.2.