[tfarney]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dobro /img/forum/go_quote.gif Tim said: A story I'd very much like to hear, knowing your aversion to Kool-aid. I'm still very much a cable agnostic. To all who have contributed to this thread, a big thank you! I've been following closely and find this thread both interesting and edifying. Again, thanks!

I'm still cable agnostic, but not a cable atheist. I always figured decent quality cable with good connectors was what was required, and the rest was voodoo. Then, because I'm such a cheap person, needed some cable, and didn't even want to pay for "decent quality," a couple of weeks ago I tried the internet/Walmart/White Lightning/DIY cable voodoo scheme on a pair of speaker cables. See it here, if you have any interest:

6moons audio reviews: DIY*Cables - The White Lightning Moonshine

I can't say I really heard anything, but my speakers aren't that good and I don't listen to them enough to pick up on subtleties. I spend a lot more time, and all my critical listening time with my Senns. Yesterday, I finally got around to making the interconnects described in the article above ( I had to get my 90-year-old dad to help. How does anyone solder an RCA jack with only 2 hands?) and putting them between my DAC and the amp I use for my headphones.

This, I can hear. It's not a monumental change in my listening experience, but I can definitely hear it. First of all, it just seems to deliver more signal -- higher volume at the same settings. But once I adjust down to my normal listening volumes (or any listening volumes, for that matter) I swear I still hear more -- more clarity, more depth, more breadth, more space, more detail. The whole thing is just...more. I know, pretty non-specific, but there it is. I've spent a few hours listening to my favorite reference recordings to make sure I'm not jiving myself. I picked up crowd noise, finger noises on the bass and ambient space in the room on Bill Evans' Sunday at the Village Vanguard that I've not heard before.

So, with a power cord from Walmart ($7.44 got me 40 feet), some decent RCA jacks and a bit of silver solder, my feet have dropped from beneath me at the top of a very slippery slope. Thank God nothing I own is resolving enough to reveal the benefits of any really expensive wire. And no, I won't be searching out a Playstation 1.

Tim

 

[Headdie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Headdie /img/forum/go_quote.gif Our goal is rather to pinpoint good integrated amplifiers, identify proper match with some headphones, and even be creative to get the most out of those big box. That's the fun part of it, no? My NAD C720BEE is not a tube amplifier (snif)... but do you think that I could get a taste of it with this thing, Pacific Valve & Electric Company Yaqin Tube Buffer Moreover, I suppose that we can also tweak integrated amps, maybe even the headphone output circuit... Do you know about any mods done on a C320BEE or C720BEE ? BTW, I'd be interested to know what you guys have done to improve the sound of your integrated or receivers. New jumpers, opamp rolling, power cords, power conditionners, impedance adapters or whatever that really works... Go ahead with your suggestions!

I understand so far that my NAD with a head-out at 220 ohms is not a good match with a D2000 at 25 ohms. What I don't know yet is if I could save the game with an impedance adapter or if I should forget it and jump on a pair of DT880-250 ohms ???

Regarding NAD tweaks, people are reporting minor benefits from new jumpers and new power cord. One guy even report audible improvement from bypassing the balance pot... Thank you, but not for me.

Tim tell us that changing the cables might be good and I'll pay more attention to this thing.

I'm still hoping for feedback regarding the Yaqin tube buffer, or anything else along the same lines... I wonder if it's better than adding a tube sound with a DSP instead... Any opinions about it ?

Thank guys,

 

[Penchum]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Headdie /img/forum/go_quote.gif snip First, it's not a tube amplifier (snif)... but do you think that I could get a taste of it with this thing, Pacific Valve & Electric Company Yaqin Tube Buffer snip

Many Little Dot MK series tube headphone amp owners are using their tube headphone amps as a tube pre-amp/buffer. Since the MKII,MKIII & MKIV's have a true pre-amp output that uses both driver and power tubes for better sound, you can hook it in line or on a tape loop circuit with excellent results. I use my MKIII this way, outputting to a Sonic Super-T amp, and it made the whole system sound "not digital", which was what I was after.

At their low price point, and dual usage, it is worth checking into before spending money on a dedicated tube buffer in the same price range.

 

[Penchum]

Good news! The nice folks at Little-Dot took the time to bench test their MK series amps, and come up with the average power usage ratings for us. Prior to my request, they hadn't even thought to check this.

Here is DavidZ's reply:

As requested, here are some average figures for power usage:

MK2 28W
MK3 30W
MK4 30W
MK5 12W

Best regards,
David

Those are some pretty small figures, which is what I suspected.

 

[tfarney]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Headdie /img/forum/go_quote.gif I understand so far that my NAD with a head-out at 220 ohms is not a good match with a D2000 at 25 ohms. What I don't know yet is if I could save the game with an impedance adapter or if I should forget it and jump on a pair of DT880-250 ohms ??? Regarding NAD tweaks, people are reporting minor benefits from new jumpers and new power cord. One guy even report audible improvement from bypassing the balance pot... Thank you, but not for me. Tim tell us that changing the cables might be good and I'll pay more attention to this thing. I'm still hoping for feedback regarding the Yaqin tube buffer, or anything else along the same lines... I wonder if it's better than adding a tube sound with a DSP instead... Any opinions about it ? Thank guys,

Are you sure the output impedance of your NAD is 220 ohms? That seems awfully high.

Regarding the tube thing, there are successful hybrid designs out there (Musical Fidelity's stuff comes to mind), I'm sure, but FWIW, my experience with guitar amps tells me that hybrid designs with tubes in the preamp and SS in the power section always end up sounding a lot more like SS than tubes. If I wanted to experiment with tube amplification, before I spent a few hundred dollars on a tube buffer or a tube headphone amp to be used as a preamp to a SS amp, I believe I'd go a few hundred more and just get an all-tube integrated amp. What to go with depends, of course on how efficient your speakers are and ranges from the reportedly excellent little Glow Amp One at 5 watts and $588 up to Yaquins in the 50 - 60 watt range.

Testing the new homemade interconnects as we speak. They're not enough to make hifi out of Derek and the Dominos, but they sound good. I wonder if there's any way I can turn Walmart Yardman Patio Cord into replacement cable for my Senns......

Tim

 

[Headdie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Penchum /img/forum/go_quote.gif Many Little Dot MK series tube headphone amp owners are using their tube headphone amps as a tube pre-amp/buffer... At their low price point, and dual usage, it is worth checking into before spending money on a dedicated tube buffer in the same price range.

Good suggestion and I like your sense of humor

There's a short thread on the Little Tube BBS titled "Using LD MKIV as line buffer" with some reserve from DavidZ. Could you get this thing clear Penchum?

Thanks,

 

[Dobro]

Tim:
Quote:

I'm still cable agnostic, but not a cable atheist. I always figured decent quality cable with good connectors was what was required

My thoughts as well, and your experience seems perfectly consistent with that. I didn't know what kind of cables you where talking about at first. I thought maybe you had tried something more esoteric, but it appears your feet are still on solid ground and your fridge Kool-Aid free. Thanks for the link. I may try that out as I need some good interconnects and I'll be needing speaker wires soon as well.
Quote:

I wonder if there's any way I can turn Walmart Yardman Patio Cord into replacement cable for my Senns......

LOL, that thought crossed my mind as well.

 

[Penchum]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Headdie /img/forum/go_quote.gif Good suggestion and I like your sense of humor There's a short thread on the Little Tube BBS titled "Using LD MKIV as line buffer" with some reserve from DavidZ. Could you get this thing clear Penchum? Thanks,

Sure, that's pretty easy. First I'll quote it:

"You're definitely right that the Little Dot MK IV can be used as a headphone amplifier or a pre-amplifier, however if there are specific functions you are getting from your current X-10D for line buffering, the Little Dot MK IV is not designed with such duties in mind."

The first sentence confirms the pre-amp usage. What DavidZ is saying after that, is "if" there are specific functions you are getting from your current X-10D for line buffering, the MKIVse doesn't have these functions.

The MKIV has no adjustments to the pre-amp output, other than the volume control, so the only way of changing the sound of the output, is by changing tubes. The "gain" adjustments on the MKIV (and all models) are for the headphone jack output only.

What isn't said here, is the results people are having with their MK series tube amps, doing this dual usage. They are rolling tubes until they find what they like using their headphones, then hooking it up to their main speaker systems and loving the results!

They like the results well enough, that they don't feel compelled to change the tube complement they are using for their headphones, so that is pretty cool.

 

[odigg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Headdie /img/forum/go_quote.gif I understand so far that my NAD with a head-out at 220 ohms is not a good match with a D2000 at 25 ohms. What I don't know yet is if I could save the game with an impedance adapter or if I should forget it and jump on a pair of DT880-250 ohms ???

Time for me to be a pain in the ass. Somebody on Hydrogenaudio said something along the lines of "If your headphones already sound wonderful and beautiful, how much better do you expect it to get with a better amp?" Some people were expecting this world of difference with their headphones and were disappointed when they didn't get it after investing in an expensive amp. When I read it I found the the above quote was both wonderful and logical, and very insightful about the limits of human enjoyment.

How does your D2000 sound out of the headphone out? Does it sound muddy? Something missing? Lackluster? Noisy? Flat? If so, then perhaps an impedance adapter makes sense. If it sounds wonderful, beautiful, incredible, then an impedance adapter *might* make a difference.

Tfarney - I'm just curious, but do you know the gauge of your original cable?

 

[scompton]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Headdie /img/forum/go_quote.gif I understand so far that my NAD with a head-out at 220 ohms is not a good match with a D2000 at 25 ohms. What I don't know yet is if I could save the game with an impedance adapter or if I should forget it and jump on a pair of DT880-250 ohms ???

You can't use just any impedance adapter. I think most just have a resister in series. I think most impedance adapters increase impedance by adding resistors in series. You want to drop impedance. This article was posted in the other thread Meier Audio.

It shows that what you really would need is resisters in parallel. I'm pretty sure that my NAD just has 2 470 ohm resistors, making the output impedance 470 ohms. I'm thinking of jury rigging a switchable adapter to test dropping the impedance to different levels just to see the effect. If I like the effect, I'll make a permanent one.

 

[Headdie]

Anybody has tried this thing ?

DCVST Virtual Valve Tube Simulator VST Plug-In

Elsewhere on the website it's writen :

"The Virtual Valve Amplifier (VVA) produces a variety of sounds associated with valve (electron tube) based amplifiers. The effects run the range from a subtle “tube warmth” sound to extreme effects like “guitar amplifier overload” or “fuzz box.” The SIX VVA accomplishes these effects through the use of actual electron tube circuits, which are simulated by your computer. The electronic models of the various tube amplifier circuits have been derived from the “large-signal” transfer functions of the various tubes and output transformers you can choose from. This data has been derived from extensive bench measurements of tube amplifier circuits under varying operating conditions. As such, the effects will sound literally as would be heard if you were to process a signal through a physical electron tube amplifier."

I've asked in the Computer forum also...

Edit:

It looks like you can try some of the tube simulations here,

Diamond Cut Downloads

 

[tfarney]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dobro /img/forum/go_quote.gif Tim: My thoughts as well, and your experience seems perfectly consistent with that. I didn't know what kind of cables you where talking about at first. I thought maybe you had tried something more esoteric, but it appears your feet are still on solid ground and your fridge Kool-Aid free. Thanks for the link. I may try that out as I need some good interconnects and I'll be needing speaker wires soon as well. LOL, that thought crossed my mind as well.

If you could just purchase the plugs they use, it probably wouldn't be that hard. Said the guy who had to call has dad to help him solder RCA jacks...I still don't know how anyone does that with just two hands...

Tim

 

[tfarney]

Quote:

Tfarney - I'm just curious, but do you know the gauge of your original cable?

The original interconnects I just replaced with the Walmart DIY voodoo cable? No, but neither it or the Voodoo are particularly big. 12 guage maybe. The Walmart cable has 3 wires inside, and with the speaker wire, you twist two of them together for the positive, use just one for ground. An RCA jack doesn't leave room to do that, so you have to cut one of the three off at the outer insulator and just use two smallish wires. They're longer than the cable they replaced too. Gotta be something in the metai itself...or my imagination.

Tim

 

[pp312]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tfarney /img/forum/go_quote.gif Interestingly, in doing a bit of research online yesterday, I found several of the more expensive integrateds used separate headamp circuits. In particular, the expensive and highly-praised new Yamaha A-S1000 and the even more expensive A-S2000, which not only uses a separate headphone amp, but one with a selectable gain for low impedence/high impedence phones.

That doesn't surprise me, though I don't particularly approve. My own experience is with budget to upper budget stuff, and that's what I was referring to. Using a high end speaker amp is kind of defeating the purpose for us cheapskates.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tfarney /img/forum/go_quote.gif So once again, it's down to listening. I have my old Harman Kardon as evidence. It drives my Senn 580s very well and sounds great. I don't have a bunch of dedicated headamps to compare it with, but I know what good audio sounds like, and the old HK is good enough to reveal subtle differences in recording masters and even changes in cable (something I wasn't sure I quite believed in until yesterday, but that's another story). But the old HK has 30-something specs. It is outclassed by the better modern integrateds. Is it something I'd really hear? I don't know, but even if it is subtle, and there is a chance that I could get the quality of a $400 - $500 headphone amp and upgrade my speaker amp with the same money, why would I not investigate? Tim

Don't worry about specs; they have little to do with what you actually hear. Frequently I read user reviews that say something like, "This amp sounds brilliant to me, but it's now 5 years old and the game has moved on," by which I guess they mean the specs of modern amps are better so the sound must be better. Rubbish. For years Hi-Fi mags have been reviewing amps and telling us they sound better than the previous models, which means after 30 years in some cases (NAD for one) that either the original model sounded total crap, or the latest model is pure audiophile heaven. Yet when you listen to the two models side by side there's often hardly any discernable difference whatever the specs say. And what differences there are can be accounted for by component deterioration and drift--which is probably your biggest problem with the HK. Why not take it in for a full service?

 

[pp312]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tfarney /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm still cable agnostic, but not a cable atheist. I always figured decent quality cable with good connectors was what was required, and the rest was voodoo.

I've never been into cables. Whenever I've tried slightly better ones (never high end) I couldn't hear the slightest difference. But hey, I wonder if anyone's experimented with contact enhancers? If we're talking better signal transmission, this should be the go. I have a bottle of Pro Gold I paid $40 for years ago. It's supposed to fill in all the litttle gaps in the metal and...well, I won't pretend I understand it but in theory it should be at least as effective as better wire.