NAD Receiver beats LD MKIVse??

[MatsudaMan]

Hey Penchum,

Based on the fact that everything you so say is directed at either getting people to by Little-dot amps by trying (through reviews) to pump them up to legendary/classic status or persuading them not to get rid of them....and always doing it with smiley face.....Do you by chance work for Little-tube? Your review of the MKV makes it sound like it is > 1000 dollar amp with no flaws - same with the MKIVse, when it is well known that even many integrated amplifier's headphone outs are just as good, if not better. Sounds a little fishy.

Sincerely,
Suspicious Head-fier

[That dude]

My NAD 3020i's headphone out is absolutely incredible. It works so well with my K501 I can hardly believe it (especially for vocals). That said however nice it is, it still could not drive the K501 efficiently enough, therefore the cans are not pushed to the limit. If I remember the sound of the MKIV correctly, it sounds (come to think of it), incredibly similar, both are warm and intimate sounding. The only thing is the MKIV is much cleaner, controlled and more powerful (i.e. drives the cans better). I don't know about my NAD 317. I've not tried it yet, but I just might.

[vvanrij]

Came across this article:
NAD headphone out users? (past/present)

[Penchum]

Originally Posted by MatsudaMan

Hey Penchum,

Based on the fact that everything you so say is directed at either getting people to by Little-dot amps by trying (through reviews) to pump them up to legendary/classic status or persuading them not to get rid of them....and always doing it with smiley face.....Do you by chance work for Little-tube? Your review of the MKV makes it sound like it is > 1000 dollar amp with no flaws - same with the MKIVse, when it is well known that even many integrated amplifier's headphone outs are just as good, if not better. Sounds a little fishy.

Sincerely,
Suspicious Head-fier

Dear Suspicious Head-fier,
Give me a break! The questions I asked him were totally logical and represent my wish to help him, because I have a great deal of experience tube rolling the MKIVse.

It may be your "opinion" that I try to get people to "by" Little-Dot amps by writing reviews, and pumping them up to legendary/classic status, and/or persuading them not to get rid of them, and/or using smiley faces too much, or that I work for Little-Dot somehow, but your suspicions could not be further from the truth! The only thing obvious here, is that you don't know how to spell "buy".

Here are the facts for the readership's benefit:

1. I do not work for Little-Dot.

2. I purchase and own the amps I review. (Not many reviewers can say this.)

3. I'm a 50 year old disabled veteran, who has been an audiophile for over 32 years. I'm not the bad guy.

4. I write impressionist reviews because they tell much more about the item being reviewed. I give all the facts and my impressions in my reviews. I do not write comparative reviews, which seem to be the standard around here.

5. In real life, I try to find a happy way of handling even the roughest of difficulties, and this shows in my posts. Again, I'm not the bad guy.

6. Last but not least, I WRITE REVIEWS FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE READERSHIP. I put serious research, time and effort into my reviews and hope that others will get something useful out of them.

Your statement "when it is well known that even many integrated amplifier's headphone outs are just as good, if not better." is an opinion based on nothing. It's not factual, there are no references and it comes off like it is "wide spread knowledge" and is somehow superior to other opinions. If you go back and read my post, you'll see I didn't give my opinion on how good or bad a NAD headphone jack was. If I owned a NAD receiver, you can bet I'd tell you my impression of it's headphone jack, positive or negative, most likely with a smiley too.

For the OP: Sorry this happened in your thread, I had no idea it would happen. I won't reply any further than this reply, to help you keep things on topic. If you'd like a few suggestions on tubes, PM me, I'd be glad to help.

[vvanrij]

You'r welcome to stay and post in this thread Penchum. Things like this don't bother me at all, discussion leads to info, and its always nice to see what people have to say when they put the knifes on the table (-><-). I'm not going to sell my MKIVse anytime soon, I don't even have the time for it. Its just that I was very surprised by NAD's headphone out. I also have Denon's and Rotel's here at my home, an they don't even come close to the MKIVse. But when AB'ing the LD to the NAD, I could actually hardly tell the difference, except that the 'balance' or 'richness' of the NAD seems a bit better, not sure how to describe it, it just sounds a bit more musical. The Denon's HPout sounds muddy, while the Rotel's HPout (on both) is clean, almost too clean, and introduces some hiss noise. I do have to put a big YMMV warning sign here, because I just LOVE the NAD sound, but as I said before, they actually sound very alike!

[tfarney]

Originally Posted by vvanrij

Dunno, its gotta be a real upgrade, else it might be smarter to just sell the MKIVse. Tbh I'm suprised by the NAD's quality, but maybe also a bit dissapointed in the MKIVse?? For the price it should really outperform the NAD, as it has only 1 task to do.

It's really no different with the NAD. It's one task is to amplify the signal. It steps that signal down on its way to the headphone jack, but other than that, all the R&D, technology, components and care that went into making your NAD are driving your phones. Same as the LD.

Tim

[tfarney]

FWIW, I've managed to read any number of Penchum's reviews without buying a Little Dot amp. Sometimes it's good to be broke. If I'd had the money when I first read it, I probably would have pulled the trigger on a MK V, not because of Penchum's obvious enthusiasm, but because that review revealed, in great detail, an amp that is engineered way above its price. I think there's a really good chance that amp is as good as Penchum's enthusiasm for it indicates.

Tim

[vvanrij]

Yeah sometimes reading about Penchum's comments, I might regret not buying the MKV instead, hmm, but I wanted to try tubes anyway

[PrTv]

What model is your NAD receiver?
Sorry if I sound like a retard as I can't see you mention that information anywhere in the thread.

I; however, have different impression.
I own C372, highest model in their Silver Line series, but my impression of its headphone out is not that good. I tried using it with my Senn650, and AKG 240Monitor (600 Ohms version) and found that it drove my phones very badly.

I don't know much about their receiver series but don't think it's much better (no dedicated OPA). Maybe quality of phoneout in the new "Classic" series drops significantly?

[vvanrij]

Lol, you'r right I didn't mention it anywhere. Its the NAD Stereo Receiver 712, its pretty old actually, but I just love the sound of it. Its also ridiculously powerfull, it can drive my speakers better then the 50watt Rotel or 75watt Denon, I have no idea where NAD gets it power ratings from, its almost like they just guess something, haha.

[Tiemen]

Originally Posted by vvanrij

Lol, you'r right I didn't mention it anywhere. Its the NAD Stereo Receiver 712, its pretty old actually, but I just love the sound of it. Its also ridiculously powerfull, it can drive my speakers better then the 50watt Rotel or 75watt Denon, I have no idea where NAD gets it power ratings from, its almost like they just guess something, haha.

NAD is known for building world class amplifiers with low power ratings. Because power says little about how good an amp can drive loudspeakers.

[wae5]

I have a Pany receiver, the SA-XR55, which I use exclusively as a HP amp. It has many virtues: Balance and tone controls are two of them and its HP jack is (nearly?) indistinguishable to my ears from the MKIV SE and MKV. Was I wrong to buy them? For those who are frugal or want only the best, I am. But for me my hobby is phones which beats cataloging coins, digging in the garden or disturbing the neighbors with full size speakers. So to become knowledgeable about phones I need reasonably good tube and SS HP amps and the LDs more than do this for me. Furthermore, when you’re dealing with this level of quality differences are subtle at best. But isn’t part of the fun being able to discern subtle distinctions over time and if it’s not, what’s the point of owning multiple phones and amps? For me, if I can’t hear the difference, I haven’t listened critically long enough.

[Navyblue]

Originally Posted by wae5

I have a Pany receiver, the SA-XR55, which I use exclusively as a HP amp. It has many virtues: Balance and tone controls are two of them and its HP jack is (nearly?) indistinguishable to my ears from the MKIV SE and MKV.

Just wondering, do you also mean that MkIVSE and MkV are largely indistinguishable to you?

[majkel]

Honestly, whether my CDP's headphone out is better or worse in every aspect, is a matter of the interconnect. The bass slam and overall control is always on the amp's side but with a poor quality IC the impression of realism is higher from the headphone out. It has got then better timbre, separation and imaging but when I use the right interconnect, say around $100 stock RCA IC's the things change to the level that I find the CDP's headphone out a bit congested, untidy and unprecise. Adding near-zero output impedance of the amp, it's got only advantages over the CDP's headphone out then.

[vvanrij]

@wae5: Hmm, but I know the sound can be better, audible better, so if I spend money on something I want to 'upgrade', not to sidestep and say wow cool, it costs 300euro, looks very different, but sounds the same! Then I would rather save up and go for a real 'leap' if thats still possible at this level

edit: I don't have the slightest clue what this bloke above me tried to explain sorry majkel, lets start with, what is a CDP