Review: ZERO 24 BIT/192KHz DAC/Headphone Amp/Pre-Amp

[souperman]

I just did a search on google. Lots of answers there. I'm going to go with coaxial since it's cheaper. Much cheaper. There technically should be no difference in SQ since it's just a digital signal. It's either 100% or 0%. But I guess some insist that coaxial have a warmer sound, while optical has a drier sound. Hard to believe in this case, but whatever floats people's boats.

[kmel]

Originally Posted by souperman

Why does that make any sense? I just have no idea why coaxial would sound better than optical.

Using an optical cable the digital signal is transformed to optical and back to an electrical signal. The coaxial has a higher bandwidth.

I don't say it sounds better, but it's possible that the sound differs.

[kmel]

Originally Posted by souperman

I just did a search on google. Lots of answers there. I'm going to go with coaxial since it's cheaper. Much cheaper.

There are also expensive coaxial cables.

From your signature I see that you spend extra money on new cabling for your headphones. And now you save on digital transport cable at the source of the audio chain.

[souperman]

Originally Posted by kmel

There are also expensive coaxial cables.

From your signature I see that you spend extra money on new cabling for your headphones. And now you save on digital transport cable at the source of the audio chain.

I spent the money on the cable to get a sturdier cable because the stock was so bad and was about to break anyways and it did not cost very much. I didn't get it to improve sound quality in any way. I don't know what you are trying to get at. I am saving money on a digital cable because it is transmitting a DIGITAL SIGNAL. In my opinion, it doesn't matter HOW HIGH quality you get, it will be the same. A cheap Acoustic Research coaxial cable has GREAT connectors and good build quality, and that all you really need in a digital cable. I don't know what you are trying to get at, but a digital signal is a digital signal. It's 1's and 0's. We can all have our own opinions.

[pincellone]

You are right. It's either 0s or 1s. No difference at all apart from the fact that coaxial might be subject to interference and toslink to jitter. But in general they sound the SAME.... As you said, only build quality can make some difference within each category (and, of course, the willingness to spend less rather than more money)

Originally Posted by souperman

I spent the money on the cable to get a sturdier cable because the stock was so bad and was about to break anyways and it did not cost very much. I didn't get it to improve sound quality in any way. I don't know what you are trying to get at. I am saving money on a digital cable because it is transmitting a DIGITAL SIGNAL. In my opinion, it doesn't matter HOW HIGH quality you get, it will be the same. A cheap Acoustic Research coaxial cable has GREAT connectors and good build quality, and that all you really need in a digital cable. I don't know what you are trying to get at, but a digital signal is a digital signal. It's 1's and 0's. We can all have our own opinions.

[kmel]

Originally Posted by souperman

I spent the money on the cable to get a sturdier cable because the stock was so bad and was about to break anyways and it did not cost very much. I didn't get it to improve sound quality in any way. I don't know what you are trying to get at. I am saving money on a digital cable because it is transmitting a DIGITAL SIGNAL. In my opinion, it doesn't matter HOW HIGH quality you get, it will be the same. A cheap Acoustic Research coaxial cable has GREAT connectors and good build quality, and that all you really need in a digital cable. I don't know what you are trying to get at, but a digital signal is a digital signal. It's 1's and 0's. We can all have our own opinions.

I'm trying to warn you about really cheap cables... like 6 ft. optical for $3.
I'm the last person who spend money on voodoo cable, e.g. I use a DIY 75Ohm cable with quality RCA plugs.
But I had to buy an optical glass cable because it is too tricky to DIY and I wasn't sure about my quality to build it.

I would never run down other peoples or your opinion about digital cable!
As I wrote in several posts before: Digital cable should have good connectors, a good isolation and protective shielding.

IMO it looks funny if there is someone who is spending a great amount of money on buying and selling headphones, buying opamps, spending time in opamps-rolling but doesn't try a $30 optical cable which is recommended by several head-fi members because it's too expensive.

[Skylab]

Really cheap optical cables can result in data errors. You don't need expensive ones, but really cheap ones ARE a bad idea.

Also, optical does have one way in which it can sound better than coax - an optical cable can break a ground loop that a coax cable could cause or exacerbate.

It used to be thought that optical cables resulted in higher levels of jitter. Some jitter can certainly be audible, and it never sounds good, but I'm not certain anyone ever actually proved that optical cables to result in more jitter than coax.

[oatmeal769]

Originally Posted by strologu

coaxial, by a large margin.

Could you elaborate?

[strologu]

Originally Posted by oatmeal769

Could you elaborate?

Sure (and this is to answer to all the ones who were asking why).
First of all this avoid another conversion to optical (when you are using toslink). Second reason is that, if you have a decent usb/sdif interface, and you're using pc as source, you will have 10x less jitter then using toslink.
For the cables, coaxials in this case: you don't need an expensive one, but a good one. What does it means? Canare RCA (the only ones calibrated for 75ohm) and a shielded RG-59 type cable (Belden made cheap and nice digital coaxial cables), at least of 1,5 mt lenght. The price for a cable like that is about 20€ shipped, if bought on ebay, half a price if home made.

[Penchum]

Maybe this will help smooth over the bumps in the coaxial or optical cable considerations. I have several of the "Glass" optical cables from eBay. They are excellent quality and work as advertised. I also have a 25 foot non-glass optical cable, for reaching from one side of my office to the other, along the wall. I also have several beefy and quality coaxial cables. I use all of these and I have never had a problem with any of them.

All of them are quality builds, and that is what is "MOST" important. Cheap o's will eventually show their weakness, no matter which type they are.

Cheap o's, does not mean lower cost. There are many inexpensive quality built choices out there and they will all get the job done nicely.

[souperman]

Originally Posted by kmel

I'm trying to warn you about really cheap cables... like 6 ft. optical for $3.
I'm the last person who spend money on voodoo cable, e.g. I use a DIY 75Ohm cable with quality RCA plugs.
But I had to buy an optical glass cable because it is too tricky to DIY and I wasn't sure about my quality to build it.

I would never run down other peoples or your opinion about digital cable!
As I wrote in several posts before: Digital cable should have good connectors, a good isolation and protective shielding.

IMO it looks funny if there is someone who is spending a great amount of money on buying and selling headphones, buying opamps, spending time in opamps-rolling but doesn't try a $30 optical cable which is recommended by several head-fi members because it's too expensive.

As I said, I'm not going for optical as it is more easily breakable than coaxial especially glass. I'm using coaxial which is cheaper and sturdier. The Acoustic Research coaxial cable I am purchasing is everything I need in a digital cable. They are very sturdy, have great connectors, and work just as well as more expensive coaxials. I have done my research, mind you, to find the cheapest cost effective way, with sacrificing quality. That is all. Like strologu and Penchum have both stated, a good quality coaxial cable can be had for a decent price as opposed to an optical which can get very expensive. If that's still funny to you, then laugh away. I spend my time purchasing headphones and selling them, and opamp rolling and selling opamps, but there comes a time when I need to start slimming down on my spending. That is why I have gone to the Zero, for my DAC and Amp for a BUDGET system. That is why I have chosen to gone the cheaper coaxial path than the optical.

[kmel]

Fine... we have to stop the cable discussion, it isn't related to the ZERO in any way.

[sorcer]

Originally Posted by kmel

Fine... we have to stop the cable discussion, it isn't related to the ZERO in any way.

So (not to prolong this..), doesn't the Zero come with a cable? I thought it did.

Can any of you please let us know the cable "name and number" you are buying?

Thanks! :-)

[Penchum]

Originally Posted by souperman

As I said, I'm not going for optical as it is more easily breakable than coaxial especially glass. I'm using coaxial which is cheaper and sturdier. The Acoustic Research coaxial cable I am purchasing is everything I need in a digital cable. They are very sturdy, have great connectors, and work just as well as more expensive coaxials. I have done my research, mind you, to find the cheapest cost effective way, with sacrificing quality. That is all. Like strologu and Penchum have both stated, a good quality coaxial cable can be had for a decent price as opposed to an optical which can get very expensive. If that's still funny to you, then laugh away. I spend my time purchasing headphones and selling them, and opamp rolling and selling opamps, but there comes a time when I need to start slimming down on my spending. That is why I have gone to the Zero, for my DAC and Amp for a BUDGET system. That is why I have chosen to gone the cheaper coaxial path than the optical.

The AR coaxial is a perfect example of what I was talking about. Inexpensive but a quality build. Perfect! Everyone should remember, it is all about your needs. I would have bought the same cable as this one, for going around my office, except it wouldn't have fit my needs. It would be too large and difficult to get behind some of the stuff in here. So, I opted for the thinner plastic optical, a quality build that was easier to manipulate. It fit my needs.
Thanks!!

[Penchum]

Originally Posted by sorcer

So (not to prolong this..), doesn't the Zero come with a cable? I thought it did.

Can any of you please let us know the cable "name and number" you are buying?

Thanks! :-)

The Zero comes with a reasonable quality plastic based optical cable. It gets the job done.