There's Something About Ultrasone…

[Acix]

Quote:

well, luckily my brain has forgotten about the 780 SS and from what I read the Ed.9/8 still have mushy mids. Ultrasone seem to know a lot about SS but very little about highly detailed creamy mids. Compromises again I'd presume.

I think the HFI-2200 are just in the middle between the CD3000 and the 780/E9. They have airy sound with big sound stage like the 3000's, and bass more like the 780/E9.

 

[leeperry]

well I need closed phones, or at least half-closed.
 
did you ever hear a cd3k? FWIR, the Ultrasone Edition still cannot compete in the mids department. Anyway, as usual the Ultrasone's are very HRTF dependent, and it's an instant love or hate.
 
anyway, no wonder the upper spectrum sounds like ---- on the 780: http://www.geocities.jp/ryumatsuba/review.html
 

 
and the Ed.7 is no much better:

 
I'm still hot for the T50RP, though:

 

[Acix]

Quote:

Nothing mushy about the ED 8 mids.
 
Why don´t you get a K1000. I can´t see how ear speakers like that can fail in the soundstage department

The ED9 bass and the low mids push the upper mids thru the back.  Now, the K-1000 are spectacular... but for me they roll-off on both ends : (

 

[oqvist]

ED 9 is not ED 8 I am quite sure of that .
 
T50RP is nothing special in term of soundstaging. The LCD-2 is also not special in term of soundstaging. Wide but you get little depth.
I agree they have better mids. Particularly the mids on the LCD-2 is really something extra. Not to mention the ruler flat big bass.
Really only the SS apartment I could wish for more.

 

[Acix]

 
Quote:

well I need closed phones, or at least half-closed.
 
did you ever hear a cd3k? FWIR, the Ultrasone Edition still cannot compete in the mids department. Anyway, as usual the Ultrasone's are very HRTF dependent, and it's an instant love or hate.
 
anyway, no wonder the mids sound like ---- on the 780: http://www.geocities.jp/ryumatsuba/review.html
 

 
and the Ed.7 is no much better:

 
I'm still hot for the T50RP, though:

 
Yes, I like the CD300 very much, they sounds hybrid between the K-70X, and the Stax 4070. I mange to get good result with my GMP 8.35 and the oval pads, check out the GMP Euro loan program. The GMP 435/8.35 are very nice models, I mean if you're not going for the K-702 with a nice cable and if you still have the Bronson.
 

 

[leeperry]

 

 
I manage to get good result with my GMP 8.35 and the oval pads, check out the GMP Euro loan program. The GMP 435/8.35 are very nice models, I mean if you're not going for the K-702

I don't have good faith in phones that don't have angled drivers(maybe the "oval pads" you mentioned are actually angled?) or high SS technology like the Ultrasone. The Manufaktur genuine leather DT770/600Ω had a most amazing clear sound but PRaT was AWOL and being a monitor phone it was making any bit of static or crackling explode to my ears..pointless. Also the SS was a boring L/R, no 3D'ness whatsoever. I've got no use for open phones so the K70x are out.
 
Ah, the Stax 4070 looks like fun. Same story as the cd3k, it's using very large cups to allow the drivers to breathe...nice!
 

T50RP is nothing special in term of soundstaging. The LCD-2 is also not special in term of soundstaging. Wide but you get little depth.
I agree they have better mids. Particularly the mids on the LCD-2 is really something extra. Not to mention the ruler flat big bass.
Really only the SS apartment I could wish for more.

 
Yes, finding a phone w/ killer mids and an impressive SS is really  hard. I'm afraid the cd3k can't be topped in those 2 aspects together.
 
I've tried the cd1700 that has BioCellulose drivers like the cd3k, it isolates a lot more but the mids sound much more muffled and the SS much narrower in comparison. Maybe that's the reason why the Ed.10 is not closed, as it would appear that the higher the isolation the lousier the mids and the SS.

 

[oqvist]

If I say the named orthos mids destroy the SA5000s mids as well does that help?
 
German Maestros as you say are not good either creating depth.
 
Open and closed have their advantages/disadvantages. I am sure Ultrasone want to differentiate the ED 10 from the ED 8.
I would call them stupid if they with the ED 8 in production decide to make yet another closed ED headphone..
Though they really have to be LCD-2 will killer soundstaging to be worth it´s soundtag.

 

[haloxt]

leeperry, the sony pfr-v1 ear speakers have killer upper mids. Big soundstage, flat FR except for bassy songs and natural sounding and forgiving. Bad aspects are ugly, can be uncomfortable having bass ducts poking at ears (but padding the balls to rest on your cheek may completely solve this), bass extension and texture is really sub-standard for $175 street price headphone, and low freq ambience is sometimes funneled into the very narrow bass ducts so ambience doesn't always have the right effect, but bass impact is quick if not too low hz. Another bad thing is it's somewhat difficult to recable, maybe 25-26 awg max unless you cut off insulation. I recommend recabling, imo it improves bass for these headphones to almost decent, quite big boost to SS depth.
 
I would not call them reference or monitor headphones, but if you want clarity of mids and highs, natural/enjoyable and forgiving sound, and don't mind bass as if you were sitting a bit far from the musicians, this could be the ticket.

 

[leeperry]

 

If I say the named orthos mids destroy the SA5000s mids as well does that help?
 
German Maestros as you say are not good either creating depth.
 
Open and closed have their advantages/disadvantages. I am sure Ultrasone want to differentiate the ED 10 from the ED 8.
I would call them stupid if they with the ED 8 in production decide to make yet another closed ED headphone..
Though they really have to be LCD-2 will killer soundstaging to be worth it´s soundtag.

Well, Ultrasone can use their psychoacoustics R&D to provide an out-of-head SS w/o angling the drivers...but they cannot get creamy mids w/ such tiny cups IMHO, brain tricking techniques have their limits. I guess the Ed.10 should have much clearer mids because this will allow the drivers to breathe. A suffocating driver will not deliver HD mids.
 
Oh, so the T50RP mids kill the sa5k? well for one, the FR from that Japanese site would confirm it, and SONY have lost their mojo after the cd3k/R10 drivers...it's a lost cause, they've prolly fired their best engineers since then

 
sa5k:

cd3k:

t50rp: 

 

[leeperry]

 

 
the sony pfr-v1 ear speakers have killer upper mids.

very nice but these are fully open and look vastly uncomfy...you can wear the cd3k/cd1700 for as long as you want.

 

[Acix]

Okay if you care only about the mids the K-271MKll/GMP 8.35 or the Fostex are a good option. The Fostex will need amp.
 
BTW, the CD3000 are not warm on the mids as you think.

 

[leeperry]

good mids but lousy SS? ah well, the cd3k spoiled me I guess...I should have a CD900ST in the next coming days, time will tell. It's said to have very HD "Sony-sounding" mids similar to the cd3k but w/ a less "airport hall" headstage...time will tell
 
Japanese cd3k owners say that "it lets you hear each tree instead of hearing the forest", hah. And some ppl here on HF prefer it over the O2, yay.
 
I could call the cd3k a lot of things, but "warm" doesn't come to mind. OTOH, "dreamy" does: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/505119/top-5-wide-sound-stage-headphones/75#post_6839143
 
"I would'nt say that the CD3000 has the best soundstage in a realistic way. The CD3000's ass-kicking wide and deep soundstage and overall presentation are (to me) somewhat dreamy, like your head was in a bubble, or a cocoon, call it what you want, more that any closed or open can I had the pleasure to own or try. A very large and deep cocoon which is terribly addictive."
 
Listening to Ennio Morricone on these phones feels like being in heaven

 
What killed me on the 780 was the out-of-head SS w/o the cavernous part: http://www.headphonereviews.org/headphone/Sony/MDR-CD3000
 
"The highlight of the CD3000 is most certainly its cavernous soundstage that separates instruments into their own locations better than all but only the very best headphones. The first time I heard these cans, I was mesmerized by the expansiveness and surrounding nature of the soundstage. The angled drivers undoubtedly help these cans project a frontal soundstage better than many competitors. The drawback of the soundstage is almost a philosophical one, in that the CD3000 makes virtually any recording sound expansive and airy, which while very interesting and entertaining, is hardly transparent or natural."

 

[haloxt]

I think you are aiming for things headphones cannot reproduce, only good speakers.

 

[leeperry]

 

I think you are aiming for things headphones cannot reproduce

I think you might not have heard the right headphones.
 
This said, my hopes towards the CD900ST are pretty high: http://www.sgheadphones.net/index.php?showtopic=9338
 
"Waah this were very surprising. It were soo light and still pack the details and the punch I want. Need to find these babies when I get home."

 

[haloxt]

Maybe, but it seems you have tried a lot of headphones but still searching for the right headphones.