There's Something About Ultrasone…
Aug 21, 2007 at 1:53 AM Post #4,351 of 5,940

jpelg

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First of all, I am expressing my opinion as a member, not as a moderator. I'm allowed to do that, you know.

Secondly, while you may have personally purchased from a Head-Fi sponsor, you are simultaneously advocating purchasing from a vendor who does not comply with the manufacturer's pricing policies. Not cool, imo.
 
Aug 21, 2007 at 2:25 AM Post #4,352 of 5,940

ldj325

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Quote:

Originally Posted by jpelg /img/forum/go_quote.gif
First of all, I am expressing my opinion as a member, not as a moderator. I'm allowed to do that, you know.

For clarity, my new comments are in bold, in the quoted part as well as in the "response" area. I don't seem to have a handle on the multi-quote function.

No one, certainly not me, is trying to prevent you from stating your opinion. Please don't attempt to change the meaning of my comments and then answer to that changed meaning. That is commonly called "spin." You can state your opinion without doing it in an insulting manner. That's my meaning plain and simple.

Secondly, while you may have personally purchased from a Head-Fi sponsor, you are simultaneously advocating purchasing from a vendor who does not comply with the manufacturer's pricing policies. Not cool, imo.



I don't know what the actual wording of the distributor agreement is, but I gather that there has never been a lower price advertised, and that seems to make some sort of difference. And they have never done that to my knowledge. So you are assuming a lot, unless prior to right now you have read the written policy. Furthermore, that corporate policy seems like price fixing to me and I feel no personal obligation to honor it. I could be wrong on the following, but in California where I am, I vaguely recall reading a few months back that there may some pending legal action aimed at making these enforced pricing policies illegal. And if not, I think there should be--just as there are laws (that I agree with) against "dumping" a product in order to drive competitors out of business.
 
Aug 21, 2007 at 2:32 AM Post #4,354 of 5,940

Sovkiller

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Quote:

Originally Posted by jpelg /img/forum/go_quote.gif
"...Secondly, while you may have personally purchased from a Head-Fi sponsor, you are simultaneously advocating purchasing from a vendor who does not comply with the manufacturer's pricing policies. Not cool, imo..."


James as far as we know, NSL and the others, till now, had not violated any price policy, and they have complied with the manufacturer pricing policies, otherwise Ultrasone would kick them out long time ago, as they must be aware of the prices they are selling, that is not a secret, they monitor this site daily....

IMO, to choose to sell at one price point is the prerrogative of the seller, that is their profits what they are squeezing, not the price given to them...and they do not force any customer to purchse from them neither...

What they can not do, and they have not done, is to advertise a price below certain price for a given product in their website as per internal agreements with the distribution system...

And BTW, what is not cool? IIRC we have seen that same practice in some of our sponsors websites as well, then if we use that same logic, are you implying that to purchase from them is not cool...?

What is good for the goose is good for the gander as well right...
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Aug 21, 2007 at 2:37 AM Post #4,355 of 5,940

mdarnton

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I'm actually shocked that a supplier can demand a price fix. I thought such things became illegal in the US decades ago, as they should be. I hadn't seen such a situation as Grado enforces in years, and thought those days were long gone.
 
Aug 21, 2007 at 3:09 AM Post #4,357 of 5,940

kwkarth

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Hey...... How about them Red Sox, eh?
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I'm still lovin' my monster PL650s
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Aug 21, 2007 at 3:11 AM Post #4,358 of 5,940

MaloS

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Quote:

Originally Posted by kwkarth /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Hey...... How about them Red Sox, eh?
wink.gif

I'm still lovin' my monster PL650s
lambda.gif



I love my Ultrasone more than you love yours, how about that for a challenge, eh eh?
biggrin.gif
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Aug 21, 2007 at 3:16 AM Post #4,359 of 5,940

ldj325

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Quote:

Originally Posted by jpelg /img/forum/go_quote.gif
First of all, I am expressing my opinion as a member, not as a moderator. I'm allowed to do that, you know.

Secondly, while you may have personally purchased from a Head-Fi sponsor, you are simultaneously advocating purchasing from a vendor who does not comply with the manufacturer's pricing policies. Not cool, imo.



Quote:

Originally Posted by Dexdexter /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I can't tell ya how many times I heard that one...
tongue.gif


Chin up, Stas, we've weathered far worse than a little spirited pricing debate.
wink.gif



At nearly 4400 posts this thread needs a little shot in the arm every so often. And as one who has read all 4358 posts, those shots do seem to show up fairly consistently.
biggrin.gif
cool.gif
 
Aug 21, 2007 at 3:32 AM Post #4,360 of 5,940

jpelg

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ldj325 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I don't know what the actual wording of the distributor agreement is, but I gather that there has never been a lower price advertised, and that seems to make some sort of difference. And they have never done that to my knowledge. So you are assuming a lot, unless prior to right now you have read the written policy.



I am not "assuming" anything. This quote from Evan, the engineer from Ultrasone USA:
Quote:

Originally Posted by themick
just so everybody knows, we will not be honoring this price with the dealer as it is a gross violation of our minimum advertised pricing policy desinged to keep things fair for all dealers. And we are right now taking steps to get this removed from their site. Sorry to squash anybody's hopes of getting a great discount on the Edition 9's but this price is wrong and hopefully should not be up there much longer.


from this older thread here about a vendor advertising the Edition 9's at US$1095. Quote:

Furthermore, that corporate policy seems like price fixing to me and I feel no personal obligation to honor it. I could be wrong on the following, but in California where I am, I vaguely recall reading a few months back that there may some pending legal action aimed at making these enforced pricing policies illegal.


You are welcome to take that up with your Californian congressman & legal council. Until then, you are still incorrect. Quote:

And if not, I think there should be--just as there are laws (that I agree with) against "dumping" a product in order to drive competitors out of business.


Which NL&S seem to be doing. How can you be for one & against the other? Inconsistent arguments.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sovkiller /img/forum/go_quote.gif
James as far as we know, NSL and the others, till now, had not violated any price policy, and they have complied with the manufacturer pricing policies, otherwise Ultrasone would kick them out long time ago, as they must be aware of the prices they are selling, that is not a secret, they monitor this site daily....

IMO, to choose to sell at one price point is the prerrogative of the seller, that is their profits what they are squeezing, not the price given to them...and they do not force any customer to purchse from them neither...

What they can not do, and they have not done, is to advertise a price below certain price for a given product in their website as per internal agreements with the distribution system...



To me, that is spinning the argument. Just because someone is following the "letter" of the law, doesn't mean they are complying with the "spirit" of the law.

Still, if Ultrasone is ok with selling (if not advertising) at those prices, then you guys have nothing to worry about, right? Quote:

IIRC we have seen that same practice in some of our sponsors websites as well, then if we use that same logic, are you implying that to purchase from them is not cool...?


I don't know to what sponsors you refer. Please clarify.
 
Aug 21, 2007 at 3:36 AM Post #4,361 of 5,940

Dutchess of York

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Im sry if this question has been asked before, but the 218 pages of text was alittle intimidating, and I broke off around page 5. Aparently people feel... um... strongly about ultrasones, one way or the other. Because Ive rarly seen them on the for sale pages, is there a model i can get my feet wet with without breaking the bank with ED9s?

sub question to senior head-fi(ers): has a trend ever grown this long, or are we breaking the head-fi record books?
 
Aug 21, 2007 at 4:27 AM Post #4,363 of 5,940

ldj325

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Quote:

Originally Posted by jpelg /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I am not "assuming" anything. This quote from Evan, the engineer from Ultrasone USA:


from this older thread here about a vendor advertising the Edition 9's at US$1095.You are welcome to take that up with your Californian congressman & legal council. Until then, you are still incorrect.Which NL&S seem to be doing. How can you be for one & against the other? Inconsistent arguments.
To me, that is spinning the argument. Just because someone is following the "letter" of the law, doesn't mean they are complying with the "spirit" of the law.

Still, if Ultrasone is ok with selling (if not advertising) at those prices, then you guys have nothing to worry about, right?I don't know to what sponsors you refer. Please clarify.



You know I had a post (that is being replaced by this edit) that in my opinion very effectively answered your points by pointing how what I had said was being distorted and twisted into things that I never said. But at this point, I see it is no longer a productive conversation and instead is turning into a pis....g contest. This reminded me of the old movie War Games, where the only way of winning was to not play that particular game. So I am no longer playing this game. Best regards.

As in the movie War Games, the only way to win in such a discussion is not to play.
 
Aug 21, 2007 at 11:26 AM Post #4,365 of 5,940

Contrastique

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Quote:

Originally Posted by mdarnton /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I'm actually shocked that a supplier can demand a price fix. I thought such things became illegal in the US decades ago, as they should be. I hadn't seen such a situation as Grado enforces in years, and thought those days were long gone.


Apple uses fixed prices all the time, at least here in Holland. Not so shocking to me. Even if a dealer would want to lower the price it would be hardly impossible since the margin is around 5-10 percent, depending on what kind of sales-agreements has been made.
 

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