[haci]

Quick impressions between RS8 and N30LE in H gain / Class AB / Solid State with RN6 listening to "For Your Love" – Jacob Gurevitsch, Arturo Sandoval:

• N30LE's – rich sound with weight to notes and instruments, strings have a lovely texture and verberation, there's excellent layering, horns are
• RS8 – noticeble difference is the sound is thinner – less intimate and rich, notes and instruments have weight though decays faster, strings also have lovely texture and verberation with faster decay
• Its an intimate track and while both share similar soundstage, N30LE sounds wider in comparison.

Both are musical though N30LE adds a richer emotive and engaging quality to the track where RS8 is "neutral" in presentation.

Is RS8 on Darwin Ultra? If so, N30LE now looks interesting -) Any comparison as to how they perform with music with a couple layers of melodies?
Such as Ephedra - Little Molecules

 

[Auricon]

Is RS8 on Darwin Ultra? If so, N30LE now looks interesting -) Any comparison as to how they perform with music with a couple layers of melodies?
Such as Ephedra - Little Molecules

I was hoping to test Darwin Ultra via firmware update but will need to download the filters and update locally. I'll take a listen to your suggest track and post impressions a bit later.

 

[gLer]

I was hoping to test Darwin Ultra via firmware update but will need to download the filters and update locally. I'll take a listen to your suggest track and post impressions a bit later.

Ah, you don't have Darwin Ultra. Tut tut. RS8 comes alive with this. Try again

Somebody please send this man a Chiron and FTS, I would love to hear your impressions of these 2 especially since we both have Jewel and I'm in the market for a cable for it. Tokpakorio is now the official head fi cable review master, there can be only one. Orpheus lite may fit the bill perfectly my friend. Thank you for the hard work!!!

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/pwaudio-first-times-shielding.26085/reviews#review-29302

 

[barrycro]

With this recent talk of $6k cables I would like to posit the question “ how is this cost justified?:”
I am not trying to start the subjective discussion of is there a sonic difference between cables.
Having experience in both the electrical field and the manufacture of titanium bicycle frames I feel like I have a grasp of the fabrication aspect of cable making.
The parts costs are readily available .
Between expensive labor and precious metals I think you would be hard pressed to make a cable over $200 in actual cost.
In asking how a company comes to their msrp I am not calling into question anyone’s desire to have or actually purchasing said expensive product. To each their own.
Can research and development be the answer as measuring resistance and shielding from interference is an easy if not known factor.
Publicity?
It is a rainy day where I am and I had a couple Guinness for lunch today.
This is only meant to be a friendly conversation starter. Respect to all.

 

[gLer]

With this recent talk of $6k cables I would like to posit the question “ how is this cost justified?:”
I am not trying to start the subjective discussion of is there a sonic difference between cables.
Having experience in both the electrical field and the manufacture of titanium bicycle frames I feel like I have a grasp of the fabrication aspect of cable making.
The parts costs are readily available .
Between expensive labor and precious metals I think you would be hard pressed to make a cable over $200 in actual cost.
In asking how a company comes to their msrp I am not calling into question anyone’s desire to have or actually purchasing said expensive product. To each their own.
Can research and development be the answer as measuring resistance and shielding from interference is an easy if not known factor.
Publicity?
It is a rainy day where I am and I had a couple Guinness for lunch today.
This is only meant to be a friendly conversation starter. Respect to all.

Short answer: it is not.

Long answer: the cost of ultra high-end cables has nothing to do with the time taken to make them, the materials, the manufacturing costs, marketing, nothing. It has everything to do with creating a product that affluent audiophiles will want to buy as a means of refining their systems, even if only incrementally, and which potentially maximise the performance of their already incredibly expensive IEMs.

 

[CharlyBrown]

My Top-List for Bass-First/View only on Bass IEMs:

1. FF Grand Maestro (Quality, Quantity, Wow-Factor, overall excitement. Black modules, switch to full joy B A S S)
2. 64 Tia Trio (Quality, Quantity)
3. ODIN (Quality)
4. CFA Supermoon (Quantity)
5. Anni (Quantity, Wow-Factor, Quality very good but quite not on the same level as 1-4)
6. Mentor (Quantity, Quality - Great bass, different than DD/Planar. Definitely not for Metal for me but most other genres)

 

[fiascogarcia]

With this recent talk of $6k cables I would like to posit the question “ how is this cost justified?:”
I am not trying to start the subjective discussion of is there a sonic difference between cables.
Having experience in both the electrical field and the manufacture of titanium bicycle frames I feel like I have a grasp of the fabrication aspect of cable making.
The parts costs are readily available .
Between expensive labor and precious metals I think you would be hard pressed to make a cable over $200 in actual cost.
In asking how a company comes to their msrp I am not calling into question anyone’s desire to have or actually purchasing said expensive product. To each their own.
Can research and development be the answer as measuring resistance and shielding from interference is an easy if not known factor.
Publicity?
It is a rainy day where I am and I had a couple Guinness for lunch today.
This is only meant to be a friendly conversation starter. Respect to all.

My short answer is maybe you can't from construction measures. But if you can afford it, you don't have to justify it. Like fine art.

 

[Script999]

RN6 (Red ATOM filter) and XE6 (Black ATOM filter) hits wayyyy harder on the N8ii, compared to RS8. Like 20% more bass is how I feel it. And way more coloured overall.
Everything was in High Gain and Turbo Mode, P+. Also no plugins or MSEB settings. I tried the Sound Field plugin but it made some crackling noise on some songs and I deleted it after checking if my IEMS were faulty and tested with different streaming apps. My hearing goes up to 15kHz and I listen mostly to EDM, Rock, Metal, Hip-hop, Trance, House. Not much classical for me though I think I would love it more on the RS8 than on Cayin. Let me elaborate.

When I was listening to XE6 on RS8 a few days ago I was thinking "Where's my absurd bass gone?". Like sure I hear it but I had it very different in memory. From the N8ii memory. But at the same time I was like "Yea wait a minute this is different but still crazy good!" XE6/RN6 still sounds extremely good on the RS8. They are just way more tamed, calm and precise and RS8 shows a very technical side of XE6/RN6 ofcourse with some extra Bass sauce in there... But IMO (Basshead) and I repeat IMO N8ii works better with XE6/RN6 they are also way more energetic. I guess thats just Cayin House sound tuning and R2R architecture difference.

Could it be too much for someone who doesn't prefer that much bass or energetic, dynamic, or even as many people call it a bright or in your face sound? Yes for sure definitely. Tubes made the FIRs a very little bit more bassy, uncontrolled, warm and intimate but just a small amount, and yes I love that and goes well with both of these IEMs but it's not necessary. On the other hand Viking Ragnar is absolutely incredible with RS8 I don't have words to describe this pairing it's just perfectly balanced and highly technical to my ears and "just" great with N8ii.

I guess there's just different preferred pairings in DAPs too... (man this rabbit hole is never ending) and no I'm not going to say there's good and bad pairings because someone might prefer this to that. After I switched to N8ii with the FIRs my basshead needs were fulfilled. Ragnar on N8ii can get just a bit bright on some tracks but there's no brightness at all on RS8.
RS8 is very technical, not coloured, reference like. Keeps it professional but still if played around and altered with some MSEB settings or Plugins RS8 is in it's own league and can also get colourful and dynamic, in your face IMO. There is no other DAP that offers this much alteration of your sound.

I remember when I was giving some Air through the MSEB settings on XE6 I was like "DAMN these sound open and clear af now!". This implies that they sound veiled/thin or dark, obviously they are dark/warm IEMs but I wouldn't say veiled. The bass which "veiled" or recessed the mids fixed itself with Spinfit W1. These tips lifted the veil for me beforehand. Adding Air through MSEB is just a touch of High frequency change. I didn't continue to listen to them like this because I imagine it can cause some peaky trebles which I don't like that much. Though I might play around with this more and test it for longer periods and different songs.

What I'm trying to say is that it's great to have so much customizability in your hands but sometimes you just want to plug in and listen to music and not fiddle around in the menus with the sliders and or EQ. Did I mention different ATOM modules? Cables? Tips? You name it.

Cayin N8ii to me is like a powerhouse of engaging fun. It's like that one friend that's always down to party, in a great energetic mood and ready to loose control and do crazy stuff.
RS8 is like perfectly programmed Butler. Imagine Alfred serving Bruce Wayne (You being Batman obviously) He's a fine well dressed gentleman with the perfect attitude and behaviour and very respectful always at hand offering the right "cutlery" for your "needs".

It's great that there's so much different stuff out there, because we all like different tunings.

And I guess the N30LE is also very fun and engaging.

 

[barrycro]

My short answer is maybe you can't from construction measures. But if you can afford it, you don't have to justify it. Like fine art.

I think even those of us who can afford expensive things justify expensive purchases even if only “ because I like/ want it.” My question is really more about how the manufacturers justify it.

 

[barrycro]

My short answer is maybe you can't from construction measures. But if you can afford it, you don't have to justify it. Like fine art.

Also , I am an artist. Here is one I recently finished. Fine or not is for you to decide.

 

[stacey]

My question is really more about how the manufacturers justify it.

It keeps the books green.

 

[gLer]

Fine or not is for you to decide.

You answered your own question: manufacturers of cables often consider themselves artisans, so expensive or not is for the customer to decide.

 

[Auricon]

Is RS8 on Darwin Ultra? If so, N30LE now looks interesting -) Any comparison as to how they perform with music with a couple layers of melodies?
Such as Ephedra - Little Molecules

I was hoping to test Darwin Ultra via firmware update but will need to download the filters and update locally. I'll take a listen to your suggest track and post impressions a bit later.

Quick impressions between RS8 and N30LE in H gain / Class AB / Solid State with RN6 listening to Ephedra's "Little Molecules (Original Mix)"

• Listening to the opening 00:00 to approx 00:25, both DAPs provided an immersive listening experience with a sense of that GOA "galatic space"
• This is a fast GOA track and both kept up with the rapid beats and fast decay, N30LE had slightly incisive detailed highs, thicker lowers and thumpier bass
• N30LE Class A was better suiter for this track – reducing thickness, add clarity and air usually
• On N30LE, the rythmic beat overlaying the syth bass around 04:05 has this nice elasticity and rave beat which makes me want to break my glow sticks. RS8 conveys this elasticity also well though its not as emphasized – it sounds correctly "reference" for electronica, LOL
• Layering is great on both, moving you through layers of fast beats
• The crash at the end is much more dramatic on RS8, slightly subtle on N30LE SS + AB, and as dramatic as RS8 in Hyper Tube Classic

"Little Molecules" is "rave-a-licious" and engaging with both DAPs. Subjectively, I find it very difficult to prefer one more than the other. Layering and immersion are excellent in both with RS8 sounding as what I would expect for GOA track and N30LE's richer, slightly thicker mids and thumpier bass. If you love bass, N30LE dah shizzles. I could hear N30LE's bass improving over time as it only has 40 hours of burn in compared to over 300 hours on RS8.

Now if I switch over to Hyper, Tube Classic timbre – its glowsticks on – no doubt, N30LE all the way baby!

 

[Auricon]

Ah, you don't have Darwin Ultra. Tut tut. RS8 comes alive with this. Try again

yus sir!

 

[Piotr Michalak]

With this recent talk of $6k cables I would like to posit the question “ how is this cost justified?:”

1. I understand how this industry operates and believe that hi-end cable making is the best business of them all.

Low-tech, simple, easy to store and ship, hi-margin. Still hard to penetrate: you need to find really good material and produce some proprietary splitters and plugs.

I think PW and EA founders are multi-millionaires. I know a person who does low-end cables by hand in his basement and makes a great living with prices much lower than the aforementioned.

I myself have a company that sells hi-ticket information products based on strong personal brands of a few experts. I understand that a pricing strategy may be:
- in a manufacturing oriented company: based on cost, like you suggest (old school way of doing business)
- in a marketing oriented company: based on the subjective value of the solution for the customer. Brand and product positioning etc.

2. I still can’t unhear Murakumo2.

I have a great multitude of lower-end cables (“shielding” also - both ddHiFi cables from silver and copper). They just don’t scale as high as these overpriced TOTL we rave about here. So it’s not only a business for suckers, there is something going on.

3. I’m not sure we completely understand how the sound is transmitted through a cable. It’s quantum mechanics rather than Newton’s physics. The current doesn’t just go through the wire from what I understand. I watched some films about it, it supposedly has to do with fields rather than electron particles moving. Maybe someone here understands better and would explain.

Why isn’t silver the best sounding cable? Why 99% silver mixed with gold is even more technically proficient if it supposedly destroys the conductivity? Why is a hi-end copper cable louder when connected to a dap at the same volume than a low-end silver sometimes?