[gLer]

Haha I guess I could say the same about you after reading your posts and reviews of the IE900, EVO etc and now your current fling with the Z1R. I guess when we get a taste of something that is better (for our preferences) than those previous loves, they start to lose a little of their shine. I still like the Z1R but for me, Odin and EXT do everything better and cover all of the bases.

Very true, I never once suggested I was immunte to temptation. I've probably been as fickle as every other addict around here. But now that I believe I've found my 'dream gals', I'm going to be significantly more discerning and not so easily swayed by some minor 'improvements' here or there. An IEM is a whole package, after all, not just sound quality.

I would advise demo'ing if possible unless there's a generous returns period. It's a great device but after a few months it was left unused in combination with IEMs and was mostly seeing use with fullsize headphones where the returns were more nuanced and noticeable. I found it added little more than a slightly larger image with IEMs and that wasn't always neccessary.

I did enjoy it while I had it but I eventually found better ways to spend £1.5k...like more IEMs/earbuds/headphones.

An amp can only do so much as far as IEM scaling is concerned. Sure, some IEMs scale nicely, but even then, if you already have a powerful DAP, the difference is going to be subtle at best. I'll be honestly surprised if there's such a discernible difference in quality between an portable amp like the C9 and an already powerful DAP like the M8/R8, with or wothout true LO, as to make the C9 an absolute 'must have'. It's an expensive tweak for those that don't mind spending the cash to tweak and refine the sound, BUT heck, most high-end cables cost more than a used C9 and would arguably have far less impact on the sound.

For me personally the issue is less the improvements gained by the C9, of which I have no dounbt there will be some, versus lugging another big brick around. It's not like a Gryphon where I can just stream to it via Bluetooth, the Gryphon being much smaller and lighter than the C9 as well, albveit not quite as powerful or 'tubey'.

I would highly recommend checking out M9 if you're going to be spending that sort of money anyway for an EXT source. That pair up is seriously magic.

If the M9 is good enough, wouldn't the M8 be as well (which we know @Rockwell75 is in love with)? In terms of power output between the two there's not much in it. The motivation for the C9 was that EXT needs nuclear power to reach its full potential.

I could hear only very subtle differences between Korg Nutube and the SS option with M8+C9. Whether that was because of 'double amping' or simply because the Nutubes aren't actual tubes and I was expecting something similar, I don't know.

Goes to my point above. A subtle tweak coming from an alreay powerful source. YMMV.

 

[Damz87]

Very true, I never once suggested I was immunte to temptation. I've probably been as fickle as every other addict around here. But now that I believe I've found my 'dream gals', I'm going to be significantly more discerning and not so easily swayed by some minor 'improvements' here or there. An IEM is a whole package, after all, not just sound quality.

An amp can only do so much as far as IEM scaling is concerned. Sure, some IEMs scale nicely, but even then, if you already have a powerful DAP, the difference is going to be subtle at best. I'll be honestly surprised if there's such a discernible difference in quality between an portable amp like the C9 and an already powerful DAP like the M8/R8, with or wothout true LO, as to make the C9 an absolute 'must have'. It's an expensive tweak for those that don't mind spending the cash to tweak and refine the sound, BUT heck, most high-end cables cost more than a used C9 and would arguably have far less impact on the sound.

For me personally the issue is less the improvements gained by the C9, of which I have no dounbt there will be some, versus lugging another big brick around. It's not like a Gryphon where I can just stream to it via Bluetooth, the Gryphon being much smaller and lighter than the C9 as well, albveit not quite as powerful or 'tubey'.

If the M9 is good enough, wouldn't the M8 be as well (which we know @Rockwell75 is in love with)? In terms of power output between the two there's not much in it. The motivation for the C9 was that EXT needs nuclear power to reach its full potential.

Goes to my point above. A subtle tweak coming from an alreay powerful source. YMMV.

Yes, M8 would be more than sufficient for EXT from a pure power delivery perspective. The difference between M8 and M9 would be more for the tonal differences and synergy. Despite what some people claim, EXT doesn’t need extreme power. I’ve had this confirmed to me by VE themselves. It will scale with a good quality DAC and clean amplification but it doesn’t need to be desktop level power. I’ve tested EXT with all my sources which have a wide range of output powers and to my ears, more power doesn’t equate to better sound quality. Ymmv but I strongly believe that the myth of EXT (and IEM’s in general) needing nuclear power to drive them is massively overstated.

Edit: just to clarify, I’m not suggesting to @Rockwell75 that C9 or M8 will be worse than M9 as a source for EXT. I haven’t heard C9 at all, and I sold my M8 several months before owning EXT. For all I know, they could be amazing

 

[gLer]

Ymmv but I strongly believe that the myth of EXT (and IEM’s in general) needing nuclear power to drive them is massively overstated.

Completely agree with this. The idea of IEMs needing desktop power (and sources) to excel goes completely against the whole idea of portable audio in the first place for me. I'm sure the desktop aficionados will disagree, but like you say, YMMV.

 

[Xinlisupreme]

Maybe it isn't the right place to speak about buds, but i want to share with you.
I tried Fiio EM5 with 5 different sources and the best matching is with L&P W2 using RS6 as transport.
Matching always gives us surprises!
I tried also different usb cables and stock TRI Tk2 usbc cable sounds better than DDhifi and L&P stock cable

 

[armstrj2]

Completely agree with this. The idea of IEMs needing desktop power (and sources) to excel goes completely against the whole idea of portable audio in the first place for me. I'm sure the desktop aficionados will disagree, but like you say, YMMV.

Is there that many people saying the power is "needed" or is it just people saying it improves/scales with more power?

 

[aaf evo]

Is there that many people saying the power is "needed" or is it just people saying it improves/scales with more power?

I think it is more the latter but that kinda goes with any IEM imo. I also feel it’s a bit overblown with the EXT but that’s just my 2c.

The XE6 doesn’t take much to get it loud but of course it sounds “better” from the M9 over the DX240 over the iPhone dongle.

 

[armstrj2]

I think it is more the latter but that kinda goes with any IEM imo. I also feel it’s a bit overblown with the EXT but that’s just my 2c.

The XE6 doesn’t take much to get it loud but of course it sounds “better” from the M9 over the DX240 over the iPhone dongle.

Yep. It's more about the quality of the gear rather than power. The Amp in something like the C9 is going to be better in most cases I think than the amp in a DAP. It's the fact that there is much more power available then that is being maybe solely attributed to the improved sq.

 

[Rockwell75]

You didn’t mention it was clunky when I bought it ! Ha

I always took it as a given that the software on many of those DAPs was clunky. It's only marginally less clunky on the M8 but the n6ii was enough so that I'm willing, say, to wait for the next gen of R2R daps rather than going for an n6ii TI..

Yeh unfortunately im with you. Im usually not fussy with fit and that bulb formed a strong seal without a tip. But after couple of days it was painful to put them back in.
I will have a chance to try it again this friday.

For me what consistently works is placing them in my ears with the connector parallel to the ground and then once they're in giving the unit a quarter turn counter-clockwise (backwards) until the ear hooks are basically snug around my ears. This for me (along with the Spiral Dots) gets them locked comfortably in my ears for as long as I want without fatigue.

Well i think general consensus was that m8 was somewhere between dx300 and R8.
And im hearing that M9 is ahead of sp2k now so i think its a decent leap.

I heard consistent reports that on its own SQ terms the M8 is above all 3 of those DAPs-- which is why I went straight for the M8 over the R8 or DX300 back in 2020. Reports of M8 being superior in sound over the SP2K were less consistent but there are enough that I believe for me, given how much I love the M8 (it's currently the longest standing item in my collection) that I'd probably prefer it over the SP2K as well in terms of sound. M9 has the same amplification and DAC as the M8 and it wouldn't surprise me to learn that differences in SQ are not that drastic and, as so often is the case in his hobby, are a touch exaggerated. YMMV etc.

Ymmv but I strongly believe that the myth of EXT (and IEM’s in general) needing nuclear power to drive them is massively overstated.

Fair. After all I have stated that I enjoy the EXT through the SR25ii...which is by no means a nuclear power house. I guess what I'm really after is a bit of variety in terms of source. The C9 is near the top of my list because of all the great reports I've heard around its sound. Other items under heavy consideration for me: A used Cayin N8, a Cowon Plenue L, a proper R2R source...I'll likely be happy for the EXT (once I buy it) and M8 for a bit...I'll be doing a lot of research and reading before I decide on anything, which will probably happen in spring at this rate.

 

[Garney]

Well, the 'cooler effect is real I think. I'm now booked for CanJam NYC. My hope is that I can settle on my "single" big audio purchase for 2022. Convinced the wife that this is a mini vacation for the both of us via Wicked broadway tickets

On my lofty "want to listen to" list are as follows:

- EXT and Phönix
- EVO
- FiR Frontier series
- IE 900
- IER-Z1R (hoping one of the retail booths has these at the show)
- Zen Pro
- Any of the Elysian IEMs

Also looking forward to checking out the latest DAP offerings from Fiio, HiBy, Cayin and Shanling.

I know CanJam's atmosphere won't make for the most ideal listening setting but nonetheless I'm excited to (hopefully) hear all of the IEM's I've been wanting to check out and potentially come home with a set. I'll bring along my trusty DX300 and a plethora of tips and hope for the best! And if I'm lucky maybe run into a few Head-Fier's as well

 

[Rockwell75]

Well, the 'cooler effect is real I think. I'm now booked for CanJam NYC. My hope is that I can settle on my "single" big audio purchase for 2022. Convinced the wife that this is a mini vacation for the both of us via Wicked broadway tickets

On my lofty "want to listen to" list are as follows:

- EXT and Phönix
- EVO
- FiR Frontier series
- IE 900
- IER-Z1R (hoping one of the retail booths has these at the show)
- Zen Pro
- Any of the Elysian IEMs

Also looking forward to checking out the latest DAP offerings from Fiio, HiBy, Cayin and Shanling.

I know CanJam's atmosphere won't make for the most ideal listening setting but nonetheless I'm excited to (hopefully) hear all of the IEM's I've been wanting to check out and potentially come home with a set. I'll bring along my trusty DX300 and a plethora of tips and hope for the best! And if I'm lucky maybe run into a few Head-Fier's as well

Nice! And I'm super jealous. As much as I love the idea I don't think CJ NYC is at all feasible for me for a variety of reasons. I'm hoping we can arrange a Watercooler Zoom session during the event so those of us who can't attend in person can feel connected by proxy.

 

[Doug2507]

The C9 is near the top of my list because of all the great reports I've heard around its sound. Other items under heavy consideration for me: A used Cayin N8, a Cowon Plenue L, a proper R2R source...I'll likely be happy for the EXT (once I buy it) and M8 for a bit...I'll be doing a lot of research and reading before I decide on anything, which will probably happen in spring at this rate.

My old Romi N8BB is in the classifieds. Slightly overhyped ad on the mids / vocals IMO. Utter bargain for the sound it produces. Technically excellent, more delicate than MAX (Air, sparkle, less weighted bass) and even though it's from memory and different IEM's, i preferred it over M9. Unfortunately i've not heard M8 so couldn't compare and not sure where M9 sits above M8. You might get a good offer accepted as it's been up for a wee while now.

My M9 is up in the classifieds if anyone is tempted, MAX rocks my ears more to my liking.

 

[Rockwell75]

My old Romi N8BB is in the classifieds. Slightly overhyped ad on the mids / vocals IMO. Utter bargain for the sound it produces. Technically excellent, more delicate than MAX (Air, sparkle, less weighted bass) and even though it's from memory and different IEM's, i preferred it over M9. Unfortunately i've not heard M8 so couldn't compare and not sure where M9 sits above M8. You might get a good offer accepted as it's been up for a wee while now.

My M9 is up in the classifieds if anyone is tempted, MAX rocks my ears more to my liking.

I've actually seen that ad and pondered it. I've heard the N8 before already and it really impressed me in the short demo I had with it. It's always been well over the line for me in terms of price...perhaps the used market will soften the price a bit once the N8ii hits the scene.

 

[Doug2507]

N8 are a relative bargain now IMO, price has fallen through the roof compared to retail. N8ii on the horizon has probably stunted purchases both new and used, plus streaming is probably more mainstream that it's ever been which makes N8 a little more niche. I even find myself drawn to the odd track or two through UAPP / Tidal now.

If N8 impressed you, N8BB Romi will take you to another level.

 

[HiFiHawaii808]

Well, the 'cooler effect is real I think. I'm now booked for CanJam NYC. My hope is that I can settle on my "single" big audio purchase for 2022. Convinced the wife that this is a mini vacation for the both of us via Wicked broadway tickets

On my lofty "want to listen to" list are as follows:

- EXT and Phönix
- EVO
- FiR Frontier series
- IE 900
- IER-Z1R (hoping one of the retail booths has these at the show)
- Zen Pro
- Any of the Elysian IEMs

Also looking forward to checking out the latest DAP offerings from Fiio, HiBy, Cayin and Shanling.

I know CanJam's atmosphere won't make for the most ideal listening setting but nonetheless I'm excited to (hopefully) hear all of the IEM's I've been wanting to check out and potentially come home with a set. I'll bring along my trusty DX300 and a plethora of tips and hope for the best! And if I'm lucky maybe run into a few Head-Fier's as well

Awesome. You will love Wicked. It's fantastic!

Nice short list of IEMs. I either own or have those on my short list as well. If you add MEXT and Jewel, then you would have my list. Unfortunately, Elysian Acoustic Labs won't be there, so you will need to find someone who owns an X or Annihilator to hear it.

 

[HiFiHawaii808]

Just saw this on the Head fi home page. Really cool design. I am a sucker for dongles. Hoping it gives a good flavor of the M9.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/shanling-ua5-next-step-in-our-portable-usb-dac-amps.961713/