[Rockwell75]

Got this in an email from MyHeadFi...I'm not quite ready to plunge on a pre-order for one of these but man oh man does this look like one sexy beast.

 

[Rockwell75]

The fam.

 

[DanielListening]

The Andromeda’s made it home!

Thanks again for the loaner on them. What a magical experience. I have wanted to hear those for years.

 

[SBranson]

I was thinking of something more 'subliminal' and unconscious, and somewhat placebo-like. The idea is similar to that we not only 'hear' with our ears. But other sensors as well. It's fun to think about this

(Consider also that humans rely so much more on visual cues, than other mammals which have relatively much stronger sense of hearing and smell. It's fascinating how humans evolved favoring visual acuity over smell or hearing)

An example, food dressing and meal arrangement. We seem to also 'taste' with our eyes. Most probably that's the sensor we use first before eating. We see color and shapes, and derive from that information the likelihood of a fruit being ripe or meat fresh. And then we use smell to confirm our findings to increase our guess accuracy so we don't eat spoiled food and get sick (e.g. bats). Then we memorize which food is more safe than not, and pass that finding to others

This is very interesting to me.. I received back my Bravado mk2 from @Rockwell75 today and had a quick listen and compared to the Dorado. Very different presentation and instantly the Bravado had a sense of "correct" staging and going back to the Dorado was an adjustment again to be so "within" the music.
So while I was walking the dog and was thinking more about this whole staging thing and how the regular staging thing creates more of a visual sound field and I think that gives more of a sense of being an audience member and perhaps, that ties into a more instinctual or primal sense of identity. What I mean is that similar to what you are saying above, that we have developed a primarily visual means of securing survival through hunting and defence. I had the thought that the CA style of being in the midst of the music can be seen as a departure from the caveman into the a modern immersive field, a kind of surrendering of the self to being within the experience of the music. Spatial cues in something like the Dorado, still give some sense of bearing but there is not so much of the sense of a stage that one is looking at.. more of a sense of self in a memory, a sense of presence rather than an imaginary "virtual" performance. This is probably a more evolved presentation of music in an age of the disembodied performer... and dare I get into the weird temporal elements that Machina Dynamica (the pebbles people) of listening to captured time moments.
(That last sentence was in a private PM to @Rockwell75 about this but it's funny because it's somewhat verified in the short youtube interview with Ken Ball here, in the sense that his goal is a temporal shift of sorts to bring the experience of music out of the temporal experience of now by accessing memory..)

But back to the staging, there's safety in being able to "see" where the music is coming from and that safety can be misconstrued as "right" because it gives an immediate sense of "ease" by having one's virtual back against the wall or further re-affirms one's identity by presenting an "place" of hearing.

Hmm.. maybe Ken Ball is a postmodern philosopher breaking down the barriers of the performer/audience dynamic and in a sense bringing the audio world in the Newfie "kitchen party" idea of music creation...

I have to admit though, I that I am a product of my time and I do like the presentation more akin to speakers and it's a bit tough to give up and fall into the sphere of music I hear through CA iems..

 

[ranfan]

This is very interesting to me.. I received back my Bravado mk2 from @Rockwell75 today and had a quick listen and compared to the Dorado. Very different presentation and instantly the Bravado had a sense of "correct" staging and going back to the Dorado was an adjustment again to be so "within" the music.
So while I was walking the dog and was thinking more about this whole staging thing and how the regular staging thing creates more of a visual sound field and I think that gives more of a sense of being an audience member and perhaps, that ties into a more instinctual or primal sense of identity. What I mean is that similar to what you are saying above, that we have developed a primarily visual means of securing survival through hunting and defence. I had the thought that the CA style of being in the midst of the music can be seen as a departure from the caveman into the a modern immersive field, a kind of surrendering of the self to being within the experience of the music. Spatial cues in something like the Dorado, still give some sense of bearing but there is not so much of the sense of a stage that one is looking at.. more of a sense of self in a memory, a sense of presence rather than an imaginary "virtual" performance. This is probably a more evolved presentation of music in an age of the disembodied performer... and dare I get into the weird temporal elements that Machina Dynamica (the pebbles people) of listening to captured time moments.
(That last sentence was in a private PM to @Rockwell75 about this but it's funny because it's somewhat verified in the short youtube interview with Ken Ball here, in the sense that his goal is a temporal shift of sorts to bring the experience of music out of the temporal experience of now by accessing memory..)

But back to the staging, there's safety in being able to "see" where the music is coming from and that safety can be misconstrued as "right" because it gives an immediate sense of "ease" by having one's virtual back against the wall or further re-affirms one's identity by presenting an "place" of hearing.

Hmm.. maybe Ken Ball is a postmodern philosopher breaking down the barriers of the performer/audience dynamic and in a sense bringing the audio world in the Newfie "kitchen party" idea of music creation...

I have to admit though, I that I am a product of my time and I do like the presentation more akin to speakers and it's a bit tough to give up and fall into the sphere of music I hear through CA iems..

It is also worth considering that CA have different approach in designing their IEMs at the basic level, i.e. their housing and internals. Their sound is quite unique among many other manufacturers, who mostly specialize in building their monitors encasing them in acrylic or something similar. And I can tell with my C/2019 as well as with the MW10, the tone and timbre differ quite noticeably from other brands, or even from CA model themselves (previous Andromeda iteration), partly due to their newly applied 3D printed ceramic chamber. This was what was written as description (MW10 & C/2019)

Spoiler

イヤホン製造の新基準3Dセラミックアコースティックチャンバー

Campfire Audioのイヤホンで初めて3Dプリンターで成型されたセラミック製のアコースティックチャンバーを採用。 このアコースティックチャンバーは今後Campfire Audioの主流となる新しいイヤホン製造基準の先駆けとして採用しました。 この新しいアコースティックチャンバーを高密度セラミックを素材として活用したことで、 歪みを低減しクリアなサウンドを実現しました。 中高音域を中心にチューニングを変更したことで、新しい「ANDROMEDA」のサウンドが生まれました。

New standard for earphone manufacturing 3D ceramic acoustic chamber

The first Campfire Audio earphone to use a ceramic acoustic chamber molded with a 3D printer. This acoustic chamber has been adopted as a precursor to new earphone manufacturing standards that will become the mainstream of Campfire Audio in the future. By utilizing this new acoustic chamber as a material of high-density ceramic, distortion is reduced and a clear sound is achieved. By changing the tuning mainly in the mid-high range, a new "ANDROMEDA" sound was born.

It wasn't only that CA has uniquely differing shell design and aluminum metal housing material. The internals as well. So even with the same driver and tuning as any other brands installed I doubt they would sound the same. Due to how their design treat and transmit the sound wave emitted. I mean, even a change in lacquer of a guitar would produce a different kind of resonance, and introduce a different kind of distortion due to the reflection of sound wave upon the surface (http://www.mother-of-tone.com/lacquer.htm)

I think that there are so many elements out there that may contribute to the perceived sound. Even the tiniest miniscule difference can compound and produce some sort of butterfly effect on the overall sound and final output. Other factors that may contribute, e.g. length of tube, size/shape of bore, metal/plastic tube, electromagnetic interference, hardness of material, dampener, etc.

I think ideally, if you'd like to create the most pleasing tone (i.e. natural, lifelike, organic) then wood would be the more preferable material to work with. However, due to wood's character it may not be the most durable and consistent for reproducing many batches. It is also not the easiest material to work with, prone to fissure cracks, and when it comes to small in-ear monitors the slightest change may affect the sound in unpredictable way. But this is about to change with the advent of 3D printing in my opinion. As this technology progresses, we could alter more and more details even unto the microscopic level. So we could mimic the surface and bodily characteristic of wood better, or even go beyond it. As we humans consist of bones and flesh, we could create a material that has the closest most harmonious tonal character with our ears and listening organ. And consequently create a more pleasing tone. Not to say that it's necessarily 'better', metal and acrylic materials have themselves unique properties and advantages in sound and build. Just that it's fascinating to see how the IEMs in the future may evolve towards into [magic]. I think the trend I'm seeing is that IEMs currently are moving towards retaining their multiple drivers having better crossovers, or single driver with farther reach. The fundamentals. And next is the material of which to house those drivers and distortion-reducing design. The subtleties.

Regarding this whole staging thing, I think you're right that the idea is to bring as much immersion as possible. And especially when it comes to IEMs that is even more the point rather than enlarging the size. I think besides portability, transparency and immersiveness are among of the more valuable aspects of listening to IEMs, that you cannot get from say speakers or headphones. Its lightweight small design allows you to move freely without noticing its attachment. Of course you could also get that from speakers, but you're confined to one place when listening to them. This I think would be the next step into creating a more believable virtual reality. The sound facet. It's like the second key to unlocking the portal

 

[DanielListening]

This is very interesting to me.. I received back my Bravado mk2 from @Rockwell75 today and had a quick listen and compared to the Dorado. Very different presentation and instantly the Bravado had a sense of "correct" staging and going back to the Dorado was an adjustment again to be so "within" the music.
So while I was walking the dog and was thinking more about this whole staging thing and how the regular staging thing creates more of a visual sound field and I think that gives more of a sense of being an audience member and perhaps, that ties into a more instinctual or primal sense of identity. What I mean is that similar to what you are saying above, that we have developed a primarily visual means of securing survival through hunting and defence. I had the thought that the CA style of being in the midst of the music can be seen as a departure from the caveman into the a modern immersive field, a kind of surrendering of the self to being within the experience of the music. Spatial cues in something like the Dorado, still give some sense of bearing but there is not so much of the sense of a stage that one is looking at.. more of a sense of self in a memory, a sense of presence rather than an imaginary "virtual" performance. This is probably a more evolved presentation of music in an age of the disembodied performer... and dare I get into the weird temporal elements that Machina Dynamica (the pebbles people) of listening to captured time moments.
(That last sentence was in a private PM to @Rockwell75 about this but it's funny because it's somewhat verified in the short youtube interview with Ken Ball here, in the sense that his goal is a temporal shift of sorts to bring the experience of music out of the temporal experience of now by accessing memory..)

But back to the staging, there's safety in being able to "see" where the music is coming from and that safety can be misconstrued as "right" because it gives an immediate sense of "ease" by having one's virtual back against the wall or further re-affirms one's identity by presenting an "place" of hearing.

Hmm.. maybe Ken Ball is a postmodern philosopher breaking down the barriers of the performer/audience dynamic and in a sense bringing the audio world in the Newfie "kitchen party" idea of music creation...

I have to admit though, I that I am a product of my time and I do like the presentation more akin to speakers and it's a bit tough to give up and fall into the sphere of music I hear through CA iems..

This was a very interesting post. It was a very interesting way to see it and I agree with the idea.

I really enjoyed my time with the Bravado MII, but there is something about them that doesn’t engage with me in the same emotional way as the Dorado did.

The Bravado MKII has really cool technicalities and sounds really good. It looses me a bit on cohesion of sound and sounding a bit too artificial. I still dream of eStat treble when I go to sleep at night. I really enjoyed the bass response as well.

That being said I’d bet the Bravado MKII with the Shanling M8 fills in the midrange and presents that IEM in a more natural and convincing way. I have not heard the Bravado on the Shanling M8.

 

[Rockwell75]

Preordered!

 

[fzman]

Why does Head-Fi sometimes miss notifying me about new posts to threads I have set to watch and email me? It seems random - but I missed about 4 pages here, and am scurrying to catch up. So, forgive this boomer for seeming to be late to the party with some of these comments...

Stereo is a complete fake: it is an attempt to trick the mind into believing that there is a musical performance occuring right there with you. Some argue about whether it sdhould bring you to the music, or bring the music to you, but same same. It is an illusion, not teleportation.

That said, it is easy to mess it up, and super-difficult to come even close to getting it right. If we make an analogy with movies, then you have to get the acting, directing, script, and a bunch of technical stuff right to elicit the complete 'willfull suspension of disbelief'. I think it is much the same with audio.

Just like it's the little things that break up relationships (doing the TP roll upside down, squeezing the toothpaste tube wrong...) it is the little things that destroy the illusion of reality in audio reproduction. But, more importantly, many people (most people?) do not care... They want good sound, which is a highly subjective, idiosyncratic idea about how things should sound. Cool! I have no beef with that (or vegan beef, if that's your thing--don;t get me started on the oxymoronity of the phrase 'vegan beef'). Joy is joy, and highly worthwhile.

So, small differences and tiny distortions all get in the way of that disbelief suspension-it is not always immediately obvious, and almost at the meta-level. You may not notice a difference, but when several HOURS disappear when you were just going to check a few tracks........

As far as cables go, most iem cables are really similar, there's copper, there's silver, and some hybrids and combos, there's brading and braiding, and oh, brading... and a few insulation materials that have the right ergonomics for portable iem use - some cable geometies that would sound vastly different (and arguably much better) are not manageable in actual use. Some are expensive - people get all up in arms about that--- then don't buy one! Hey-iems are just a couple hearing aid innards encased in acrylic......

These are just the general ramblings of an aging boomer audiophile music lover high-end sales guy- take them with whatever grain of artisan, mineral enriched, exotic salt of your chosing....

 

[Rockwell75]

Why does Head-Fi sometimes miss notifying me about new posts to threads I have set to watch and email me? It seems random

If you subscribe to a thread and get a notification that someone posted but you don't actually go to the thread you won't get any more notifications that others have posted until you actually check the thread.

 

[fzman]

I am pretty thorough at checking - but i will be even more vigilant-looks like I almost missed a bunch of great stuff
Plus I haven't even gotten around to disagreeing with how Emerson (mis)characterizes Materialism vs Idealism.. He is being more poetic, than the classical Anglo-American Philosophy position defines those positions, both metaphysically and epistemologically!

 

[Rockwell75]

Plus I haven't even gotten around to disagreeing with how Emerson (mis)characterizes Materialism vs Idealism.. He is being more poetic, than the classical Anglo-American Philosophy position defines those positions, both metaphysically and epistemologically!

Looking forward to conversing with you on that as I happen to feel he got the distinction just right-- at least with respect to the fundamentals in a global sense if not in the "Anglo-American" sense. In my opinion the western fell off the rails after Plato and hasn't yet fully recovered.

 

[torifile]

Lol no it just made me chuckle. That said if I were going to order something out of the blue the IE900 is currently the front runner...especially since that outlet in Hong Kong that currently has the Dorado on sale seems to be selling it for like $700 CAD before shipping...which would be a heck of a deal.

What?!? I might jump on that. They were great to work with.

 

[SBranson]

Lol no it just made me chuckle. That said if I were going to order something out of the blue the IE900 is currently the front runner...especially since that outlet in Hong Kong that currently has the Dorado on sale seems to be selling it for like $700 CAD before shipping...which would be a heck of a deal.

What?!? I might jump on that. They were great to work with.

That’s just the deposit... the total price is about $1700cad

 

[torifile]

That’s just the deposit... the total price is about $1700cad

Thank goodness

 

[Rockwell75]

Thank goodness

I have a feeling the Isa is going to come out on top...maybe consider that one