[fejnomit]

Price is irrelevant. I hear quite obvious differences between different sub-$50 chi-fi cables based on material and construction. My point is you don't have to spend money to hear the differences if you hear them. If you don't hear them ever, then great, you save A LOT of money!

 

[aaf evo]

Speaking of cables, does anyone have much experience using Effect Audio's TermX system?

I'm thinking about grabbing a cheaper offering from EA with TermX to use between my iPhone at the gym and my DAP at home for the Maestro SE.

 

[fejnomit]

I have never heard anywhere in HP, IEM or 2-channel world that transducer = 90%. That's a first. I may not agree but I applaud your courage in saying so. As for the size of the difference in sound between various TOTL components, sure they are small(er) - the same way the differences between, say, F1 race cars are pretty small compared to each other - but large compared to a Camry

 

[dmphile]

Yes! I have my finger on the trigger for this one too, which will immediately go to Whitgir to get the full EX mod. Balanced tubes!

Last time I asked him, I don't think he was modding any AMP13 or AMP14s but I'd be glad to be corrected.

wow! I just got the MEST MKII in today. I have heard so many good things about the Indigo, I might sell/return them and aim for the Indigo. Side note, I'm still loving the IER-Z1R and it might be the IEM I will never sell.

Since acquiring Indigo, I've not regretted a minute of owning it.

Ordered, and I haven't even got my 320x yet

Now that's dedication and commitment. Well done sir.

 

[Rockwell75]

Yup. I don't really share a lot of the opinions a lot of you guys have on here. I don't think any of you guys are wrong or anything, I just havent heard much that has convinced me of some of these things. I think the headphones themselves (transducer) is likely something like 90% of the sound, and everything else can just tweak it. And most of what is discussed is probably hyperbole and a lot of the differences that are discussed are a lot smaller than it would seem. I think part of that is by design, since it would be really difficult to put things into words without describing them as larger than they actually are.

As I said though, I mostly keep quiet about it because I am not anyone else and I have no idea what anyone else may hear. I don't think anyone is wrong for hearing things I may not. I am just cautious about having to spend huge sums to hear them. Nor would I want anyone else trying to tell me that I am wrong for not hearing what they say they hear.

You don't you have to justifiy yourself-- you hear what you hear and don't what you don't. For myself I would say it's like 75% transducer, 20% source, 3% tips, 2% cable. Sources can make/break an IEM for me-- that 20% is important. With cables and tips the difference is there but it generally doesn't make or break the IEM (sound wise-- fit issues with tips are a different matter).

 

[mashuto]

I have never heard anywhere in HP, IEM or 2-channel world that transducer = 90%. That's a first. I may not agree but I applaud your courage in saying so. As for the size of the difference in sound between various TOTL components, sure they are small(er) - the same way the differences between, say, F1 race cars are pretty small compared to each other - but large compared to a Camry

I just think theres a point where diminishing returns kicks in HARD, and that point is very very very early on. After that most everything else seems to be about tuning differences, and tuning differences seem to mostly come from the actual headphones themselves. I know that sources can lean warm or bright, etc etc, but in my experience those are usually fairly minor because I think it would be a bad thing if a source was too colored. I know theres a lot more to it, its just I think a lot of those things make a much smaller difference than is generally spoken about. And an even smaller difference when it comes to actual enjoyment.

You don't you have to justifiy yourself-- you hear what you hear and don't what you don't. For myself I would say it's like 75% transducer, 20% source, 3% tips, 2% cable. Sources can make/break an IEM for me-- that 20% is important. With cables and tips the difference is there but it generally doesn't make or break the IEM (sound wise-- fit issues with tips are a different matter).

It sometimes is hard when I know that posting my opinion is often in response to others who almost certainly feel differently. Can feel like some may take it as me saying they are wrong when its just not the intent. And especially so around here and in this thread in particular where discussion is very often only about the highest of the high end and where I just either havent heard most of it or just tend to disagree with a lot of what is discussed.

 

[wolfstar76]

You don't you have to justifiy yourself-- you hear what you hear and don't what you don't. For myself I would say it's like 75% transducer, 20% source, 3% tips, 2% cable. Sources can make/break an IEM for me-- that 20% is important. With cables and tips the difference is there but it generally doesn't make or break the IEM (sound wise-- fit issues with tips are a different matter).

I agree usually tips have smaller impact on SQ, however, if the tips fail to seal, it can be huge, make or break huge.

 

[HiFiHawaii808]

I wasn't trying to start any arguments or tell anyone they are wrong for hearing what they hear. I just personally have not heard any difference. Granted, I have never heard a cable above maybe like $200 dollars. I would never presume to tell anyone they are wrong for hearing what they hear, regardless if I agree with it or not. I will just say though that until I hear it for myself, there is no way I will be convinced, and if the only way to achieve that is to spend large sums of money, then that just doesnt have any value to me personally.

But beyond that, since again its not an argument I want to pick and I am not trying to convince anyone one way or another, the point was more just about how the different communities seem to have different truths about this hobby. I don't think its a universally accepted truth in this hobby that cables absolutely make a huge (or any) difference to sound. Just that if you only browse head fi, then you would certainly be led to believe that they absolutely do.

I didn't think you were. I thought you were being respectful. I was just relaying my own personal experience with cables. I have actually openly admitted that some or even most of what I am hearing is just in my mind. But, I am one of those who believes if I am in the matrix, that girl in the red dress is real and so is that steak dinner he's eating. I enjoy cable rolling and coming up with what I think are optimal set ups. A bit like accessorizing with Jewelry. The only thing I don't like is when the sound science guys tell me I am deluding myself and I am wasting money believing what I do and the only way to prove it is by doing a blind listening test. I have no interest in doing that at this time. If they had a booth at canjam, I would try it. But, I enjoy cable, tube and source rolling.

 

[CodenameBK201]

Speaking of cables, does anyone have much experience using Effect Audio's TermX system?

I'm thinking about grabbing a cheaper offering from EA with TermX to use between my iPhone at the gym and my DAP at home for the Maestro SE.

Might suggest grabbing the Dunu Duw-02s. What I use with my raptgos. Ran me about 100, plus another 35 or so for the usb c adapter (there's a lightning option too). It's Dunus cheapest cable with q lock ends. That said, I'd never wear high end IEMs to the gym, but you do you. I actually invested in a Sony NW-WS410. I've had to replace them a handful of times over the years, primarily due to my physically wearing them out, but they're intended for swimming, which makes them waterproof, plus they have on board memory for a playlist, meaning I don't have to mess with my phone to change tracks.

The last time I wore anything high end to exercise in were my V-Moda M100s. I sweated right through the right earcup, rusted the metal to the point where the grill literally turned to powder. Thankfully that immortal life program covered the repair minus the shipping, but I pretty much swore never again to exercise in anything I'd regret damaging or breaking.

 

[DanielListening]

Woodies! I was happy to get a chance to listen to those when @tgx78 owned a pair.

 

[aaf evo]

Might suggest grabbing the Dunu Duw-02s. What I use with my raptgos. Ran me about 100, plus another 35 or so for the usb c adapter (there's a lightning option too). It's Dunus cheapest cable with q lock ends. That said, I'd never wear high end IEMs to the gym, but you do you. I actually invested in a Sony NW-WS410. I've had to replace them a handful of times over the years, primarily due to my physically wearing them out, but they're intended for swimming, which makes them waterproof, plus they have on board memory for a playlist, meaning I don't have to mess with my phone to change tracks.

The last time I wore anything high end to exercise in were my V-Moda M100s. I sweated right through the right earcup, rusted the metal to the point where the grill literally turned to powder. Thankfully that immortal life program covered the repair minus the shipping, but I pretty much swore never again to exercise in anything I'd regret damaging or breaking.

Unfortunately I don't like the look of the DUNU modular system, it's right angled and looks a bit large. I prefer a straight plug if I'm on the go, which is why I am thinking about Effect Audio's TermX system as it looks quite sleek.

I've used my A12t in the gym since Aug 2021, I've sweat all over those bad boys and they're trucking along well. I can't go back to TWS at all after having CIEMs in the gym. At the end of the day that is also what warranty is for, these CIEMs can take a hell of a beating. #they'llprobablybreaktomorrow

 

[fejnomit]

I just think theres a point where diminishing returns kicks in HARD, and that point is very very very early on. After that most everything else seems to be about tuning differences, and tuning differences seem to mostly come from the actual headphones themselves. I know that sources can lean warm or bright, etc etc, but in my experience those are usually fairly minor because I think it would be a bad thing if a source was too colored. I know theres a lot more to it, its just I think a lot of those things make a much smaller difference than is generally spoken about. And an even smaller difference when it comes to actual enjoyment.


It sometimes is hard when I know that posting my opinion is often in response to others who almost certainly feel differently. Can feel like some may take it as me saying they are wrong when its just not the intent. And especially so around here and in this thread in particular where discussion is very often only about the highest of the high end and where I just either havent heard most of it or just tend to disagree with a lot of what is discussed.

Diminishing returns for sure. I agree there.

As for sources, don't forget a DAP is not just a source/dac but also an amp and a power supply. And amps and power supplies can make a big difference wherever they are used in an audio chain. Whereas I agree that all the newest DAC chips have more or less the same level of fidelity with minor tuning differences, there is much more to a DAP than just a "source." Anyway - I am not trying to convince anyone of anything, just reacting a bit to things that might help the discussion.

 

[mashuto]

The only thing I don't like is when the sound science guys tell me I am deluding myself and I am wasting money believing what I do and the only way to prove it is by doing a blind listening test.

I think in theory blind listening tests should probably be the standard. But I also don't think anyone has the time or inclination to set that up properly. Plus it absolutely misses out on some of the fun of the hobby, which I think a lot of it for a lot of people is really about the fun of trying new things.

And there is absolutely a difference between stating why something may not be worth it to you or whoever personally, but telling someone they are wasting money or or deluded for pursuing a hobby the way they want is definitely a bridge too far. Let people enjoy what they enjoy.

 

[Amadeo Nospherathu]

RIP Ken Block((

 

[Lumithium]

The only thing I don't like is when the sound science guys tell me I am deluding myself and I am wasting money believing what I do and the only way to prove it is by doing a blind listening test.

Sometimes I find it so ironic some of these guys are telling us these stuff makes no difference to sound, while they chase audio equipment with crazy good SINAD values which makes no difference to actual listening objectively anyway.