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"The Lab"

  1. Hisoundfi Contributor
    Ya, what used to drive this website was the sense of community. It seems like a lot of the sense of community is gone.
    peter123 likes this.
  2. twister6 Contributor
    Could also be due to a lot of the money is gone too (empty wallets of non-reviewers) lol!!!
    mrmoto050 and Deftone like this.
  3. crabdog
    This. The notifications used to be better, as were the email notifications, separate reviews (not all crammed onto one infinite scrolling page) and the comment system on reviews. And reputation was better than like. :worried:
    Deftone and leobigfield like this.
  4. Deftone
    Light - Man likes this.
  5. Light - Man
    ^ Sorry to hear that Bro, my prescription would be to avoid the sound Science forums and anything to do with burn-in other than wallet burn-out.

    In no time at all - you will be back feeling all fluffed-up again - ready to buy more gear that you don't need! :ksc75smile:

    Deftone and leobigfield like this.
  6. peter123
  7. Mr Trev
    Jerda likes this.
  8. peter123
    LOL, I'd bet you win eventually if you do :wink:

    To put things another way: The Big Dipper is a much more noticeable upgrade from any other pair of IEM's I've ever heard than the HD800S are from any other pair of headphones that I've heard. While they both sit at the top on my personal enjoyment within their category the step down from the Big Dipper to number 2,3,4 and so on among my IEM's is much bigger than that from the HD800S to number 2,3,4 and so on among my headphones.

    I hope that makes sense.....
    leobigfield and Brooko like this.
  9. Brooko Contributor
    Makes perfect sense to me Peter. People won't know until they try them.
    peter123 likes this.
  10. Mr Trev
    I totally get what you're saying. I'd love to give em a try, but that's some serious coin to be spending on iems without an actual dealer network (that I know of anyway) for auditioning - not to mention warranty, etc.
    peter123 likes this.
  11. Mr Trev

    I didn't see it in either of your reviews, but how does the Big Dipper compare with the B400? I know there's a huge price differential between the models, but are you really getting that much more for the money? The 400 would be far more along my lines afar as budget would go - speaking of which any talk from the LZ camp about a Little Dipper? (something that would directly compete with the B400)

    @peter123 Your mission should you choose to accept it…

    You have a pair of PFE, right? Would you mind popping some grey filters in and see if you could give me some suggestions for a upgrade keeping in the same sig. range I checked with the shop I bought mine from and they suggested either the HEM2 or Campfire Orion (they also said the RE600, but I'd prefer sticking with BAs). I believe Nik said he'd take the HEM over the Orion. I managed to find a used 012 to replace my broken 111s, but it'd probably still be a good idea to look for alternatives.
    If anybody else has an opinion, chime in, keep the thread alive:beerchug:
  12. cjcdrummer
    Hi all. I am a lurker and wanted to encourage you all to continue posting your great impressions and reviews. For years I and many others have depended on these reviews to make informed decisions on purchases we make and greatly enjoy reading your thoughts, whether or not we make a presence here on the forum. Guys like Peter, Hisoundfi, Brooko, Loomisjohnson, Vidal, b9scrambler, crabdog, kova4a, dsnuts, bhazard, shotgunshane, hifichris, and all you other big posters are doing awesome work and help many more people with your contributions than you may realize.

    Keep it alive!
  13. Brooko Contributor
    Its a really good question - they are quite different - but its mainly the mid-range. With the B400 you get an IEM with a lot of balance and a relatively flat signature, but its a tonally correct signature. We hear a slight mid-bass hump as natural, we hear a 2-3 kHz bump as euphonic (sweet). We need a slight recession in the lower mid-range to convey a sense of sound-stage size (distance). Too flat and things can sound lifeless, peaks and troughs in the wrong place and things can sound dissonant, unbalanced signature can sound unnatural.

    What the B400 manages to do is sound both balanced, and for the most part tonally correct. A piano sounds like a piano, vocals have very good timbre, and a nice balance between fundamentals and harmonics. Probably the one area I would personally change would be at 7-10 kHz, where I think it might need a very small (2-3 dB) bump (for my tastes).

    dipper b400.png

    With the Dipper, you get similar overall balance (ie the bass peak matches the upper mid-range peak, matches the treble peaks). The big difference though is in the lower mid-range. There is a lot more recession there - hence the Dipper moniker. This does promote a greater sense of space, and the very good use of crossovers with the drivers does seem to give more accuracy (better perceived imaging) within that space. And the combination of bass bump and upper mid-range bump makes the Dipper a lot more vivid. Its not as tonally correct or as natural, but for normal day to day use, I pretty much find myself reaching for these if I just want to relax, and listen to music. I'm one of those listeners who's not necessarily looking for accuracy, and I couldn't give a toss about "the way the artist intended it". I want something that sounds good (to me). I included the Dipper at 2 levels on the graph - matched to 1 kHz, but also matched to how you would actually hear them. The difference is that you won't hear huge elevated bass with the Dipper, you'll more likely hear that distance in the lower mid-range.

    If I was listening to more male based vocals, I'd be reaching more for the B400 though - as there is a more natural overall tonality.

    I'll throw another one in the mix for you though. The Alclair Curve. Outside of the Dipper its the IEM I listen to most. It has similar properties to the B400, similar tonality. The difference is in slightly less bass compared to mid-range and lower treble, so they are overall just a bit brighter. But I've always liked a little more detail and clarity, and the Curve is practically perfect in this area.

    curve b400.png

    I haven't heard about any more developments from LZ - but I'm probably a little out of the loop.
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2017
    leobigfield, Mr Trev and B9Scrambler like this.
  14. Mr Trev
    Thanks. Sometimes having a graph to look at make it a little easier to understand the difference.
    Gotta be honest, been suffering through a major brain fog this week so when I first posted the question I seriously messed up the currency exchanges and was thinking the BD was only a couple hundred more. Considering its waay more than that, maybe it was an unfair comparison to ask for.

    That price for the BD does make the cynical bastard in me wonder… how does anybody really know what your getting? I'm not trying to single out LZ or any other manufacturer, but do they really have 7 working drivers? I also have to wonder bout all these graphene/nanotube driver'd iems showing up. Maybe I haven't been following the development of composite materials enough, it just seems odd to me that this tech is mostly being found in budget IEMs and not something more important.

    Or maybe its just the brain fog again…
  15. Jerda
    Are you ready??coming these week... 3 BA+2DD

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