[FraGGleR]

I prefer them over my HD800's in most of my set-ups (although granted, I never use the HD800's in my portable rig) and I love the HD800 overall. But going through several tube setups with the Lyr, they were top dogs in more than one example. Granted, different signatures and all, but still impressive. They absolutely murdered my other headphones (Denon AHD2000, DT660 even for classical and lesser so, the Audio Technica AD2000x). Likewise, they blew away every single "portable" headphone I have ever tried (UE6000, Momentum, K550 -they seem to have the flat AKG house sound to me and I didn't care for the fit-). And EVERY Grado I've heard (I've sampled most of the higher end ones).

I can't comment on the LCD2 or 3 because I haven't heard them, but I know one area the Mad Dogs blow them up is comfort. They blow quite a few headphones up in that regard. I was giving the LCD2 a long look before, now not so much.

No hyperbole, just honest impression. I was prepared to toss them on the shelf if they weren't up to snuff. They are easily $1000 cans to me. I am legitimately surprised how well they handle classical music.

Also, HD650 is $500 new.  MD is $300 new.

And since this is a personal journey, I can't say you are wrong and am happy you like them so much. Anecdotally, I'd say you are in the minority in thinking that they are worth $1000,so I just posted to balance it out for people who are newer to the hobby and haven't tried out a lot of headphones. They are definitely good and are a good value.

I disagree quite a bit about classical, as the HD800s are magnitudes better for me, but to each his own.

 

[LCfiner]

I like the Mad Dogs a lot (last hard them with Dog Pads so maybe they’re even better now) and actually preferred them to the Senn HD650. But I don’t think they reach the levels of $1000 headphones in terms of resolution or clarity. A good example, I think, is the $700 HE-500, which I own now. Nevertheless, I think they get darn close and the MD can compete side by side with stuff over $500.

On the same note, the HE-500 are about as good as anything I’ve heard, aside from the upper end Stax gear. It’s not as good as the 2 grand LCD3 but I happen to prefer it to the LCD2. Bass might not be as tight but I prefer the treble response. For $700, I think it truly does meet or beat some $1K+ headphones.

On the cheaper end, I think the Koss porta pro is great for 30 bucks.

Oh, and the Sony MDR 7550 IEMs (not sure what the current new price is. I got mine new on ebay for $180) get uncomfortably close to the performance of some $1K universal IEMs. They’re really good but just miss that last bit of realness or clarity with the mids and percussion. But so close.

 

[techboy]

Quote:

 
Hmmm, just shows how we all have different tastes...definitely like the Pioneer at $45 but paid $120 for my 558's and would personally rate that as a better overall deal.

Let us clarify your doubt.
 
Your facts are right, but interpretation needs to be deciphered again.
 
1. What you like or I like or he likes, doesn't make a headphone better or worse. It doesn't. Only group consensus or technicalities or several reviews can determine that. This is the first point to note. Why? Because...
 
2. HD 5x8 and Pioneer SE A1000 are absolutely different sounding headphones. Some people may prefer one, some people may prefer the other. There are people who prefer T1 over HD 800 which doesn't make either headphone worse or better. As far as group consensus and mass reviews and technical details (both heard by users and at a manufacturing and design level) are concerned, both headphones are very different and close to each other in performance. It is rather difficult to say which is better than the other because of their different nature.
 
3. Pioneer SE A1000 was released a couple of years ago at a release price of $220. Today, at $220 it still holds some value but is mediocre at best considering you can get Q701 for nearly the same price and other headphones like HD 598 and AD900X are indeed cheaper than that. However, it could still sell some just like HD 650 at $500 sells, but given Pioneer's average brand value it won't sell at all! Hence that price is no longer valid for this headphone.
 
4. The current MSRP for Pioneer SE A1000 is $149 and at that price the headphone is an absolute steal. Given aside sound signature preferences and individual differences, it does provide a lot of value at this price point. Several people have chosen this over AD700 and HD558, several people, not just one or two. I am not saying which is better. I am just saying it has tremendous value at its MSRP.
 
5. Given that is in no longer in production, and there is adequate stock which needs clearance, it sells around $45-70 or so, based on the seller. That doesn't mean it is worth only that price. There is no HD 4x9 series which comes close to it even at twice the price. HD 518/558 are definitely not better either, just different. HD 598 is better in some respects but worse in others. That means it is tremendous value even at their price points, but may not sell like hot cakes given the poor brand value Pioneer headphones have among audiophiles today.
 
6. I am not saying what is better or worse. Just that given aside personal sound preferences, Pioneer SE A1000 comes in the same league as HD 558/598 and this has been confirmed by several people including me, by testing the headphones side by side.

 

[techboy]

Coming to which headphones have tremendous value in the $200-300 range, I would like to point out that it makes more sense to have a look at which headphones are instead overpriced.
 
Let us have a look at Q701/K701/K702. 
All these are available in the market onwards of $240-260.
From a technical point they are in the same league at HD 600/650, but very different sounding. Now different doesn't mean better or worse. It just means that it caters to a different market/audience. All these headphones come in the same league.
And had Sennheiser not manipulated the market which its stringent policies, then HD 650 would be selling for $250-350 a piece as well today. However, this is something which doesn't make a headphone better or worse, just manipulates its market pricing.
Given, Q701 at $240 with no other headphone providing the same value at this price point, I find K702 Annie and K712 Pro overpriced at twice the price point. While Q701 etc are very good contenders for this list in this thread.
 
Coming to Beyerdynamic
DT 990 Pro 250 Ohm is very close in performance to every other DT 990 in production with minor and subtle differences in performance but huge differences in price which could even be 2.5x times as much based on the model!
At $170 I find DT 990 Pro 250 Ohm excellent value given it comes nearly in the same league as Q701 or HD 600 but very different sounding and catering to a different audience. However, every other DT 990 is extremely overpriced.
               Similarly, for DT 880 and DT 770 as well.
 
Coming to Audio Technica
AD900X is a bit below Q701 in overall performance and it is priced at around 75% of its value. Given this fact it is nearly as good value as well. And given the same price as HD 598, both are decent albeit not excellent values at the $180 mark.
 
Mad Dogs
It is a known fact that this $300 headphone is one of the only closed headphones in the $300 range other than K550, which is audiophile grade and is in the same league as HD 600/650 and according to some people even higher.
 
Finally coming to Sennheiser,
Given that all HD 650/600 competitors (all equally adept but different sounding) are available in the $200-250/300 mark, it makes sense to admit that HD 600/650 are over priced while other headphones are priced right where they are supposed to be.
               Further proof of this statement can be found in the fact that Sennheiser purposely fixed prices of its headphones a couple of years back based on what they forcast which was availability of HD 650 etc far below current pricing. Other companies didn't and their prices kept going down while Sennheiser's prices stayed constant.
This is adequate proof of my argument.
 
HD 800/LCD 2 are NOT OVERPRICED. They are at a level where they are no other headphones and the only ones cost about as much. The law of diminishing returns comes into play here. They are downright superior to headphones like Q701 or DT 990/880 or AD1000X etc. It isn't just about sounding different but being in a different league altogether.

 

[GearMe]

@TechBoy posts above...
 
Thanks for your 'deciphering' of my headphone tastes.    
 
Whew, quite an essay!  But as owner of weavingthoughts.com, a web based content development firm writing for '$3-5 per 500 words, -- not a surprise (http://delhi.craigslist.co.in/biz/3944377743.html).    
 
 
A few thoughts regarding your reply...
 
-  First off, an up-front apology from me if you're actually an established reviewer like Tyll, ljokerl, ClieOS, etc. that is flying under the radar.
 
- When I offer an opinion, it's based on actual listening...otherwise I'll state that it's based on other peoples reviews (ljokerl, ClieOS, etc.) and direct the OP to their thread for further review.
 
- I own both the 558's and the SE-A1000's and have spent several hours comparing them...still it's just my opinion.
 
- Do you actually own both?  Have you done this?...your profile indicates otherwise; listing your only two 'wired cans' as the HD-439 and the SE-A1000.
 
- A pointed question, but a fair one given what you do for a living AND the fact that you go on to pontificate on the nuances of the HD 800, LCD 2, AD1000X, HD 600/650, Q701/K701/K702, AD900X, K550, Mad Dogs, DT 990/880 variants, blah, blah, blah.
 
- I think the Pioneers are a great value at $45.  I really like them with female vocals (Norah Jones) and easy listening (Eagles, George Benson).  However, bottom line for me, I'd rather pay $120 and have my 558's.
 
Lastly, your point regarding reviews / technicalities has some merit.  Some others in this thread have brought up various issues with the SE-A1000's sound (bass shy, ringing, etc.).  Hence the Mods being suggested / tried.
 
Here is what Tyll had to say regarding the SE-A1000  (hmmm...maybe the real price performer is the PortaPro!   
 
Pioneer SE-A1000

This is a very poorly measuring headphone. From the steeply descending 30Hz square wave we can expect a very bass shy headphone; the significant undershoot below the zero line indicates a sloppy, non-tight bass. The general downward tilt of the 300Hz waveform indicates a thin sound with a stronger treble than mid-range, and very strong first overshoot and strong subsequent ringing make me think these will be very piercing in sound quality. I don't remember listening to these cans...I've probably suppressed the memory of a bad experience.
 
 
 
 
 
Koss PortaPro

This is an inexpensive and small on-ear headphone that sounds great for what it is. You can see in its 30Hz square wave the bass response is limited, but it doesn't go very far out of phase, so it's tight. The 300Hz square wave doesn't overshoot quite enough, which means its treble transient response is a bit poor, but it doesn't do very much wrong either. Really a stunning result for a compact $40 headphone.
 
 
 
 
http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/headphone-measurements-explained-square-wave-response-page-2
 
As always...just one person's opinion
 
Word Count: 458 (or in your world, $5)

 

[BillsonChang007]

@TechBoy posts above...

Thanks for your 'deciphering' of my headphone tastes.    

Whew, quite an essay!  But as owner of weavingthoughts.com, a web based content development firm writing for '$3-5 per 500 words, -- not a surprise (http://delhi.craigslist.co.in/biz/3944377743.html).    


A few thoughts regarding your reply...

-  First off, an up-front apology from me if you're actually an established reviewer like Tyll, ljokerl, ClieOS, etc. that is flying under the radar.

- When I offer an opinion, it's based on actual listening...otherwise I'll state that it's based on other peoples reviews (ljokerl, ClieOS, etc.) and direct the OP to their thread for further review.

- I own both the 558's and the SE-A1000's and have spent several hours comparing them...still it's just my opinion.

- Do you actually own both?  Have you done this?...your profile indicates otherwise; listing your only two 'wired cans' as the HD-439 and the SE-A1000.

- A pointed question, but a fair one given what you do for a living AND the fact that you go on to pontificate on the nuances of the HD 800, LCD 2, AD1000X, HD 600/650, Q701/K701/K702, AD900X, K550, Mad Dogs, DT 990/880 variants, blah, blah, blah.

- I think the Pioneers are a great value at $45.  I really like them with female vocals (Norah Jones) and easy listening (Eagles, George Benson).  However, bottom line for me, I'd rather pay $120 and have my 558's.

Lastly, your point regarding reviews / technicalities has some merit.  Some others in this thread have brought up various issues with the SE-A1000's sound (bass shy, ringing, etc.).  Hence the Mods being suggested / tried.

Here is what Tyll had to say regarding the SE-A1000  (hmmm...maybe the real price performer is the PortaPro!   

Pioneer SE-A1000

This is a very poorly measuring headphone. From the steeply descending 30Hz square wave we can expect a very bass shy headphone; the significant undershoot below the zero line indicates a sloppy, non-tight bass. The general downward tilt of the 300Hz waveform indicates a thin sound with a stronger treble than mid-range, and very strong first overshoot and strong subsequent ringing make me think these will be very piercing in sound quality. I don't remember listening to these cans...I've probably suppressed the memory of a bad experience.





Koss PortaPro

This is an inexpensive and small on-ear headphone that sounds great for what it is. You can see in its 30Hz square wave the bass response is limited, but it doesn't go very far out of phase, so it's tight. The 300Hz square wave doesn't overshoot quite enough, which means its treble transient response is a bit poor, but it doesn't do very much wrong either. Really a stunning result for a compact $40 headphone.




http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/headphone-measurements-explained-square-wave-response-page-2

As always...just one person's opinion

Word Count: 458 (or in your world, $5)

Hey GearMe! Can you please teach me how to read those square wave respond? I really do not understand much from it!

Billson

 

[LCfiner]

In case you’re serious, you can just follow the link within his post where Tyll from Innerfidelity explains it very well.

 

[MattTCG]

Quote:

Mad Dogs are easily a $1000+ headphone priced at $300. The combination of detail reveal and fun factor is just perfect and their closed nature makes them the perfect in-office headphone. They respond very well to amping and handle most genres extremely well (even classical, which shocked me...they didn't do so hot with metal, oddly enough. Sounded kinda bloated for that.).
 
They are simply amazing. Everyone should try these at some point.

 
^^ This...

 

[GearMe]

Quote:

Hey GearMe! Can you please teach me how to read those square wave respond? I really do not understand much from it!

Billson

 
Ask an expert...Tyll
 
http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/headphone-measurements-explained-square-wave-response-page-2
 
People way smarter than me find value in measurements (and listening obviously!).  They also say they correlate with the sound characteristics of headphones, speakers, etc. 

 

[tk3]

I thought most headphones were "hidden gems" and "perform significantly above their price-point, that's like an ever-present expression in any review!
 
But the Beyer DT1350 is worth a mention IMO, it's relatively cheap and sounds great.

 

[Slaphead]

I'm one in the AKG Q701 camp as a seriously over performing headphone for, what is now, it's ridiculously low price point.

IMO until you start shifting into HD800 or Stax territory there is no better headphone on the market for classical, jazz, and acoustic music, making this headphone a serious bargain.

 

[techboy]

@TechBoy posts above...

Thanks for your 'deciphering' of my headphone tastes.    

Whew, quite an essay!  But as owner of weavingthoughts.com, a web based content development firm writing for '$3-5 per 500 words, -- not a surprise (http://delhi.craigslist.co.in/biz/3944377743.html).    


A few thoughts regarding your reply...

-  First off, an up-front apology from me if you're actually an established reviewer like Tyll, ljokerl, ClieOS, etc. that is flying under the radar.

- When I offer an opinion, it's based on actual listening...otherwise I'll state that it's based on other peoples reviews (ljokerl, ClieOS, etc.) and direct the OP to their thread for further review.

- I own both the 558's and the SE-A1000's and have spent several hours comparing them...still it's just my opinion.

- Do you actually own both?  Have you done this?...your profile indicates otherwise; listing your only two 'wired cans' as the HD-439 and the SE-A1000.

- A pointed question, but a fair one given what you do for a living AND the fact that you go on to pontificate on the nuances of the HD 800, LCD 2, AD1000X, HD 600/650, Q701/K701/K702, AD900X, K550, Mad Dogs, DT 990/880 variants, blah, blah, blah.

- I think the Pioneers are a great value at $45.  I really like them with female vocals (Norah Jones) and easy listening (Eagles, George Benson).  However, bottom line for me, I'd rather pay $120 and have my 558's.

Lastly, your point regarding reviews / technicalities has some merit.  Some others in this thread have brought up various issues with the SE-A1000's sound (bass shy, ringing, etc.).  Hence the Mods being suggested / tried.

Here is what Tyll had to say regarding the SE-A1000  (hmmm...maybe the real price performer is the PortaPro!   

Pioneer SE-A1000

This is a very poorly measuring headphone. From the steeply descending 30Hz square wave we can expect a very bass shy headphone; the significant undershoot below the zero line indicates a sloppy, non-tight bass. The general downward tilt of the 300Hz waveform indicates a thin sound with a stronger treble than mid-range, and very strong first overshoot and strong subsequent ringing make me think these will be very piercing in sound quality. I don't remember listening to these cans...I've probably suppressed the memory of a bad experience.





Koss PortaPro

This is an inexpensive and small on-ear headphone that sounds great for what it is. You can see in its 30Hz square wave the bass response is limited, but it doesn't go very far out of phase, so it's tight. The 300Hz square wave doesn't overshoot quite enough, which means its treble transient response is a bit poor, but it doesn't do very much wrong either. Really a stunning result for a compact $40 headphone.




http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/headphone-measurements-explained-square-wave-response-page-2

As always...just one person's opinion

Word Count: 458 (or in your world, $5)

1. I am the owner of a writing agency. I have about 40 freelancers working for me under 2 managers. I don't write a word myself.
Just because Coke sells each can for a dollar a piece doesn't mean the owner himself makes every can himself and sells for a dollar per piece. Does it?
My company does thousands of articles each month. And we also do design and development. And most of the turnover ends up as my personal profit or personal use
Besides, I live in India and with my parents as I am a recent graduate. I don't need to pay rent or for the house or anything. So all my income is at my disposal or can be saved if I wish to.

2. I am not an established reviewer. However, I have read on this forum itself that several established reviewers found the phone to be steal at $220 release. I don't know who they are. Check the appreciation thread for that.

3. I have RS 180 headphones with TX 170 transmitter. Based on what I have read on headfonia and otherwise they come in the same league as HD 558 and HD 598. I have also compared HD 598, HD 518 and RS 180 in the Sennheiser store and RS 180 comes very close to HD 598 but does lose by some margin. RS 180 has a superior sound signature and more bass, but HD 598 is a bit better technically. This basically means RS 180 is close to a HD 558.
I have also heard HD 598 with a friend and also heard the K701 over there.
I have again heard LCD2 with another friend and HD 800 in the Sennheiser store.

4. Now as to how much money I have had at my disposal. Then I have spent nearly 10k USD on computers in the past 2-3 years and about as much on my wardrobe and a lot more on my food and every day expenses.
Besides, to hear something you don't need to own it. Do you?

5. I haven't heard any other phones except what I own and other than what I have listed above 2 points prior. Those phones came from extensive reading.

6. Bass shy doesn't mean a weakness. It is a sound signature attribute. AD700 is bass shy but not bad.

7. I haven't had any ringing.

8. People even mod HD 800 if they want. Doesn't mean HD 800 is bad.

9. Often graphs are right but not always. I have actually heard these headphones so graphs are irrelevant to me

 

[GearMe]

Was just taking you at your word...per quote below from your original post....saying you listened to them side-by-side...apparently you haven't.

"Pioneer SE A1000 comes in the same league as HD 558/598 and this has been confirmed by several people including me, by testing the headphones side by side."

 

[techboy]

Again you are wrong. I have listened to HD 598 and Pioneer SE A1000 side by side. I went to my friends house and we compared K701, HD 598 and A1000 side by side. I have A1000 and he has the other two. At least start reading the whole story

 

[jmoore914]

Some people feel that AE1000s punch way above their price, others do not, no need to fight about it 

 
BOT:
I agree that KSC75s punch wayyy above their $15 price. They sounded as good as my SR60is with wood cups 

 
I would say that SR60s perform above their price if you are able to deal with the comfort. I was not so they did not perform above their price for me personally.